Maybe I just suck at this game...but

[HSC Guy]

Maybe I just suck at this game, but it's the first Civ type game I've ever played, and I'm enjoying it. The thing is that I'm having the worst time trying to capture enemy cities. If they are protected by cannons, I just can't get though.

What do I do to knock them out? Say I'm attacking a city that has four or five cannons and seven or eight fascists all fortified inside. How do I take the city? What do I need to attack with?

Please advise!

[Falconeer]

Not knowing where you are in the tech tree, I'll try and guess by what's being used to defend. I've found that the best way to soften a city up is with naval bombardment (if it is a coastal city). In my games I've edited the ship of the line to be able to bombard land (in reality, it actually can). I'll use them or once I get them, battleships, to soften up the enemy for a few turns. This will make some of their units damaged along with maybe killing a few. Then I usually take a 12stack composed of 5-6 cannon/artillery and 6-7 cavalry and attack. I like to have all of my front line units be flanking units that way once they kill the unit in front of them they aren't just standing around doing nothing.

The key though I think is the naval bombardment to soften them up. If you are attacking a landlocked city then you may have to move on up next to it and bombard it from there a little bit, just make sure you have units in reserve to fill in the spots of the units that will die. Whenevr I bombard from land the next turn the computer always attacks the stack, kills off a unit and then retreats.

Good luck!

Are you bombarding first?
If worst comes to worst park two twelve-stacks outside the city and have them both bombard for a few turns before you attack.

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[Carrion]

I have 2 stacks of 12 running around in my oponents lands. one stack is 12 artillery/cannon what ever is available. The other stack is 12 of my favorite offenseve units of the time. Usually tanks and machine gunners.

With the 12 artillery i bomb the hell out of the city for 2 turns then attack with the other stack and watch the carnage. I rarely loose more than 1 unit in the assault.

[OmniGod]

Not much into tactics are you guys?

Omni - the only 4 or 5 to a stack guy... diversity wins the day again

[HSC Guy]

Not much into tactics are you guys?

Omni - the only 4 or 5 to a stack guy... diversity wins the day again.

So what do you recommend to a newcomer? How do you conquer rival nations without only 4-5 units in a stack?

[deathmetal]

i want a quick and merciless win getting those cities. 3 stacks of 12bombardment team will not soften the defense but it will ANNIHILATE the defense.

i can sometimes use spies, if ever needed. but three stacks of 12bombardier will

a) save you time
b) save you units
c) with minimum casualty

[Captain_Dave]

Why the heck haven't I been bombarding? I always do it when I have battleships, but I haven't got them yet in my current game. I've trying to pry the Scots loose from their well-fortified cities. We are pretty equal in tech: riflemen, cavalry and cannons. I've been winning the battles just attacking outright with 6 cannon, 3 Riflemen and 3 cavalry, but when the battle's over all I have left are cannon. I've always avoided parking right next to their city because i'm afraid they'll bombard me. But if I bombard first I should take out a lot of their cannons and have an easier direct assault the next turn, right? What a fool I've been. I guess I haven't bombarded because I have a mixed stack of units, so the bombard option isn't highlighted. Ugh!

Oh, does it make a difference if your cannon are all joined together as an army, or do you bombard with them individually

[OmniGod]

My strategy is smaller groups, with at least 1 bombarder per group... then 2 or 3 groups attack from various sides... this means that the AI will bombard each separately and thus you'll not loose a single unit since most of the time a single bombard won't kill anyone it's the 4 or 5 against a single stack that looses 1 or 2... but by spliting the attack group you can attack more effectively. A fly bye with a bomber just before the final assault all but seals it.. having a spy in the group tells you when you should commence the final assault then it's one smaller group against a really damaged city defense. Maybe you loose 1 of 5 units... the cost is minimal, and you've gained a city... that's my method of madness, and it makes the game interesting since there are tactics and cost effective... 1 unit lost is many more saved.

Omni

[Shaka II]

The bombard option shows up even if it is a mixed group. One thing to watch out for, however, (that maybe someone could verify) is the behaviour of nested groups, i.e., groups within groups. I found out that having the nested group bombard did not result in all bombard units firing (bug?). Use either one unested group or several unested groups on a tile and this will not happen.

I generally bombard until I see no more life in the city, and then enter with fresh troops. It is better to wait an extra turn to make sure than to be unpleasantly surprised to find a bunch of units still in the city. It is good to have 2 defensive units mixed with bombard units to absorb damage, when the AI has it's turn. Cycle in fresh defensive units, bombard units to the attack tile. Best to have a few stacks recovering in nearby city, while others are on front line.

[Falconeer]

You can bombard with your units grouped. You'll see a couple units die when you bombard rather than just a puff of smoke or 1 unit dying. You can also bombard with mixed groups; the bombard option will still be there.

[Captain_Dave]

No, the bombard option isn't highlighted in a mixed group. I don't know if it's available by right-clicking or something, but I had to sort out my cannons before the bombard option showed in the command window. I haven't patched yet, though, but I didn't see this in the list of fixes.

No, the Bombard command is not available for a mixed group. also, if you select into the group and choose one army member to bombard then the entire army acts as if it has bombarded and has it's movement taken away from it. I'm not sure if this is a bug or a feature.. as a feature it makes a small amount of sense but it was surprising when I found it.
Later
Kevin

[Dominous Nemo]

Battleships, bombers, troopships, and marines. ;-)

[Captain_Dave]

OK, I tried it out last night...you CAN bombard with a mixed group by right-clicking on the group and selecting bombard. Worked great. But one caveat to the bombard strategy: If the units in the city are exclusively bombarding units and you have a good front line of attackers/defenders, obviously you will be better off just directly attacking the city. Found this out the hard way!

[mananath]

What I like to do is attack cities with a group of 12. Within the group I place 6 cannons/artilery/catapult and fill the remaing 6 with tradional ground forces. Although I don't like to do much attacking before I have tanks. Mainly because I like to build lots of cities, very early on in the game (new city build queue: warrior, settler, settler)and so the early gov't types can't support my empire expanding much. Generally i concentrate on developing all my cities and increasing science (be it tradtionally or through spying). However once I develop the tank I am usually in a situation where I can devote ALL of my cities to building them without losing out on development and I also have corporate republic. At this point I just stack 12 units of tanks and literally roll through the AIs land. Acknowleding the AIs lack of ability to counter attack, the other day I took over 80% of one of the top ranked AIs cities with two stacks of 12 tanks.
In short -- I have found the best way to capture cities is to wait to you have the production and scientific capabilities to adequately wage war. (on a side note, does anyone else here LOVE the cargo helicopter as much as I do? It is sooo much better than the troop ship)
-mike

[jackbean]

Nowadays I try to stay away from bombarding because the AI is simply too dumb to handle your bombardment most of the time. Instead, I usually send two stacks of 12 units, (e.g. 7 infantry men & 5 cannons), place both stacks outside the city on the same turn (to avoid being bombarded twice). When the next turn comes, attack the city with these two stacks one after another. You will lose the first stack, but the second stack is almost guaranteed to take over the city.

Why does this work? When the first stack attacks, it will eliminate about 3 or 4 defending units. When the second stack goes in, there will not be enough defending units in the front line, leaving the cannons vulnerable.

It's costly to you, but that's the way it's supposed to be. You should only expect victory if your attacking force is twice the defending force. (according to Sun Tze)

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There is more to strategy than rushing
towards scientific supremacy

[Michiel B de Boer]

I think it's way easier using a spy to turn a city (even capitals) to barbarian and then take it with 1 unit. Costs a bit of money, but hey, there's plenty of that around, no ?

Edit :
Man, the AI is stupid... :
I turned a city to barbarian while they had a stack of 7 units next to it. What did they do ? Move away !
It also doesn't seem to have any influence on regard...


[This message has been edited by Michiel B de Boer (edited December 29, 2000).]

[cdo2001]

jackbean,

i use 3 12-unit armies to surround the city, i use the first 2 armies to attack and retreat after just 2 rounds, only lose 2 defender units, after the 4 rounds, the defender city usually loses 3-4 defender units, and then the 3rd army captures the city losing at most 1-2 unit. So totally i lose 3-4 units the most instead of 12+

[Basileus of the Romans]

The best way to take a city is by diplomacy. That way, you do not lose precious time or material.

The second best way is through intrigue, either with Spies or Cyber Ninjas.

If you have to resort to war to take a desired city, then what I find is the most effective way is to bombard the city with stacks of bombers. the advantage of bombers over, say, battleships or artillery, is that bombers can fly back to their carriers or airbases without fear of retaliation from the city's garrisoned artillery units that battleships and other units must endure.

If all else fails (and I do mean all else), then simply nuke the foolish city and take what remains of it. This should be a last resort, as the pollution, diplomatic penalties, and the sheer devastation of the city are rather bad.

Also, jackbean has the right idea. Read The Art of War by Sun Tzu. It actually does help with strategy.

[jackbean]

quote: Originally posted by cdo2001 on 01-04-2001 02:22 PM i use 3 12-unit armies to surround the city, i use the first 2 armies to attack and retreat after just 2 rounds, only lose 2 defender units, after the 4 rounds, the defender city usually loses 3-4 defender units, and then the 3rd army captures the city losing at most 1-2 unit. So totally i lose 3-4 units the most instead of 12+

That's what I did too !! Why didn't I get the same result?? Hmmmm ..... Ah, I remember now, I jacked the defense bonus of city walls way up, hoping to give defending side more advantage.
What happened was, I gave computer players many more cities to start with, hoping this economic advantage will translate into military might. And to prevent the AI from 'rushing' me, I jacked up the defense bonus of city walls. With all that extra units lying around, you would think that AI would attack me constantly.
But Nooooo .... they just sit around and wait for me to slowly eat them up one by one

Anyway, back to the point. cdo2001, I think that's a good strategy, and a reasonable one too. Attacking enemy cities with three stacks of 12 units is like surrounding the city. You can normally expect to reduce your own loss to a minimum by surrounding enemy troops. I just wish AI can counter this particular strategy.

Basileus, I agree that diplomacy is the best way to achieve supremacy, but there doesn't seem to be many diplomatic options unless you ally with a nation. I only got to use "request withdraw" and "stop piracy" on a regular basis. sigh .....

[Felan]

I built up a nice flight of 12 Interceptors and flew around devastating the Greeks with them. I would attack the city, usually not losing even one Interceptor and then I would break into three groups of four Interceptors and distribute them along the frontline cities. This worked well for me till they started to get significant numbers of Tanks then the gig was up, but I had achieved my objective by then and was maxed on cities (actually starved a couple down to pop of 3 so I could disband the city) so I didn't really care and the Greeks agreed to a cease-fire then about 5 years later a peace treaty. I should mention since someone will that you can't capture a city with Interceptors, but I would march a single Machine Gunner up and have him occupy the city after the Interceptors had done their thing.