a STATEMENT OF ACTIVISION TO THE CIV COMMUNITY - Page 2

facistpig · January 21, 2001, 03:33

What no email or PBEM? I wish I never would have bought this game. I don't have time to sit around and play people in real time. I have to use email. I don't have a network. I have to use hotseat. I can't stand playing a against a stupid computer. Those of you that want a better AI, well that is impossible as there is no such thing as AI. A computer is just a machine that follows code. THAT IS IT! I love CTP1 except for some of the bugs and combat system, but nothing I can't live with. I hate CTP2. It should not have been named CTP2 because it is not the same game - similiar - but not the same. Too many changes. Damn, I wish all of the new stuff that is in CTP2 was in CTP1. Life sure does suck.

facistpig · January 21, 2001, 03:37

I want my my freaking money back. Store won't take back unopened software. ******.

January 21, 2001, 04:16

Well one and all...You've heard the verdict.

And what are you going to do about it?

I suggest we all abandon this "popcicle stand" of a game called CTP2 and one and all move on over to the Apolyton CIVIII site!!!

Mark my word that Firaxis/Hasbro has followed and has taken note of what has happened to us by Activison...I don't believe Firaxis/Hasbro (Sid Meier) will treat us as "used toilet paper"

CHARGE!!!!

Ramo · January 21, 2001, 05:02

I can't believe I wasted my money on CTP 1.5! Not only do these people have the gall to release an incomplete, bugged piece of shit as a final product, they don't even bother trying to fix it!

Ming · January 21, 2001, 11:05

I just looked at my shelf of games, and was happy to see only one game from Activision on it... CtPII.

It will now stay that way.

If you are going to contact the company, snail mail is the best way to do it. Don't flame, just state how disappointed you are that the company has failed to provide a functioning game. And let them know that you will never buy another game from them. Also throw in that you will let your friends know how Activision has withdrawn support for a game that is still on the shelves in stores, and they should think twice before ever buying a game from them.

From looking at the above response Activision, it is pretty obvious that nothing will change the situation. All we can do right now is hope that the company has problems in the future selling new games.
And that other game companies can point to this decision as the reason why. Maybe somebody else will learn from Activision's mistake.

It is a sad day when a company knows they produced and sold a defective product, and will not even attempt to fix the situation.

Ming · January 21, 2001, 14:07

The line that really pisses me off is:
"we feel that in the end, we have delivered a game that met the design goals of the project"

So their design goal was to produce and release a game that STILL has major bugs in it and do nothing to solve them.

Maybe the should have just said that our goal was to make as much money as possible and not care one damn bit about our customers. At least then, I could have respected their honesty. This response is just proof that customers come last to them. The good news is, companies that think like this go out of business... I look forward to that day! And I will try to help that day come closer by never buying anything from them again, and telling all my friends about their fine example of customer support!

skorpion59 · January 21, 2001, 15:19

I am very disappointed myself and will never buy another Activision product. This is such a slap in the face that it is hard to overlook and walk away from. In fact, this could easily be conceived as fraud.

I might add sending a few email to an Activision supplied email address is not going to do any good. You need many people bonding together and sending their coherent thoughts to the people that count, namely the Board of Directors.

I might also add, while Activision's PC games division lost money (gee I wonder why), their Console Games Division is doing good enough to pull them through so they are not even close to going out of business. They are just abandoning the PC Games Market and concentrating on Console games.

Now, where is that petition to sign.

Big Dave · January 21, 2001, 18:57

On the market for less than 90 days and Activision punks out. What a shocker! NOT!!!!!

Dale · January 21, 2001, 19:26

All I can say is that I spent the weekend fighting CTP2 to create a mod that will activate AI diplomacy. But after reading this statement I'm of a mind to completely trash the program and stop.

This is just bloody typical of capitalist bullcrap. No wonder human society is rotting in its own refuse when capitalist-pig companies (and governments) run the show. No support, no care, no ****! It's because of crap like this from companies/governments world-wide that the social revolution is gaining momentum in Australia. Vive le Revolution!

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

facistpig · January 21, 2001, 20:27

I think that on the box of CTP1 it said 2 million copies sold? Well multiply that by an average of $30 a shot (Conservative estimate). Does that come up to $60 million dollars? An average programmer might make $40k a year probably less at activision. That leaves millions of dollars left over. Can't the cheap capitalists spend a little of that to fix the damn game? Are there laws against companies releasing defective products? When a car company has a defect there is a recall. To heck with it, I just want my $50 dollars back.

P.S. Boycott Hasbro too! Falcon 4 was the best flight sim ever created and they killed it.

facistpig · January 21, 2001, 20:30

I agree! Revolution or the 2nd coming of Christ (too slow) is needed.

quote:

Originally posted by Dale on 01-21-2001 06:26 PM
All I can say is that I spent the weekend fighting CTP2 to create a mod that will activate AI diplomacy. But after reading this statement I'm of a mind to completely trash the program and stop.

This is just bloody typical of capitalist bullcrap. No wonder human society is rotting in its own refuse when capitalist-pig companies (and governments) run the show. No support, no care, no ****! It's because of crap like this from companies/governments world-wide that the social revolution is gaining momentum in Australia. Vive le Revolution!

January 21, 2001, 20:33

quote:

Originally posted by facistpig on 01-21-2001 07:27 PM
I think that on the box of CTP1 it said 2 million copies sold?

500,000 actually...

January 21, 2001, 21:04

I wonder how long it will be before Consumer Protection agencies start getting heavy with companies which produce defective products like CTP II. The multiplayer side of the game was unplayable and they must have known it. I think game consumers are far too accepting of this sort of thing.

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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

Mike the Nuke · January 21, 2001, 21:31

quote:

Originally posted by facistpig on 01-21-2001 02:33 AM
What no email or PBEM? I wish I never would have bought this game. I don't have time to sit around and play people in real time. I have to use email. I don't have a network. I have to use hotseat. I can't stand playing a against a stupid computer. Those of you that want a better AI, well that is impossible as there is no such thing as AI. A computer is just a machine that follows code. THAT IS IT! I love CTP1 except for some of the bugs and combat system, but nothing I can't live with. I hate CTP2. It should not have been named CTP2 because it is not the same game - similiar - but not the same. Too many changes. Damn, I wish all of the new stuff that is in CTP2 was in CTP1. Life sure does suck.

For what ever it is worth, there is supposedly a hidden menu (left ofver from CTP-1) where you can play under the Hot Seat opiton. The Hot Seat and PBEM options use similar coding and (I believe) can be found under the same menu area. Check on this site in various locations for more details, as I do not (and will never) own a copy of CTP2 and cannot verify this hidden option menu or it's valid operation.

Also, unfortunately, the people at Activison did say (way back in the beginning) that the Hot Seat/PBEM option was left out of the game (CTP2) due to programming issues (or other such B.S. that would have slowed oup it's release). Their tone has always indicted that they were never going to pursue a patch of any sort to include those options. This site is an excellent site for obtaining info on these types of games (both from the site managers and contributing forum members). If utilized and followed closely, you can learn a lot about each (and every) game of this type, and be able to purchase a game or games more wisely to suit your needs. Then you will not be taken to the 'cleaners' so badly. I am personnally 'pissed off' because I (and my family) played CTP1 in Hot Seat mode reguarly and enjoyed it. We anxiously awaited CTP2's arrival, only to be TOTALLY disappointed when they left out the Hot Seat option (information I found on this site). Therefor... I never bought the game (saving $50) and will never buy the game (unless some wiz-bang programmer takes it upon him/herself to integrate a thoughly 'bug free' addition of the Hot Seat option (and the game price drop by about $30). Remember...anything that is modified by others outside Activison, will not be supported buy Activision in any way, including damage to your software, systems and/or hardware. The 'modifier folks' will also not thoughly support their deals either, though they may make efforts to improve each mod. Without the actual game codesx, the 'modifier folks' (like this guy Wes) have a very, very dificult task in making 'bug free' mod and/or patches to add any options such as Hot Seat or PBEM.

January 21, 2001, 21:45

quote:

Originally posted by Mike the Nuke on 01-21-2001 08:31 PM
Check on this site in various locations for more details, as I do not (and will never) own a copy of CTP2 and cannot verify this hidden option menu or it's valid operation.

see the very first thread in the ctp2-multiplaying forum

January 21, 2001, 22:11

Maybe people should take this media release to their local consumer protection agency and point out the bugs. Consumers have been very tolerant of Activision till now - but now they are saying they don't care if the game is flawed. Maybe its time for consumers to flex their muscles. If Activision was selling toasters or cars they wouldn't be able to get away with selling defective products. The multiplayer side is clearly defective and unfinished. That's consumer fraud and there are heavy fines in most Western countries for that.

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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.
[This message has been edited by Alexander's Horse (edited January 21, 2001).]

January 21, 2001, 22:12

from CGO

quote:

Front Office Football Central is reporting that EA Sports has no plans to issue a patch for its NFL GM sim, Front Office Football 2001. Despite claims from users that own Voodoo based video cards that the game is unplayable due to instabilty problems, the company issued a statement that the it could find no technical problems that were in need of a patch. An EA representative also stated that the company simply had no additional funds to continue to support Front Office Football 2001.

sound familiar??

Kautilya · January 21, 2001, 23:54

I didn't buy CTP1 but now I understand all the anger from those who did.

My first impressions of CTP2 were positive but after reading various posts I have realized:
1) CTP2 isn't really a new game but more of an extended patch of CTP1. Charging full price for it is an outrage. Although since I didn't pay for CTP1 I can't personally complain about being swindled on that front.
2) Even though CTP2 isn't very innovative it is still not a finished product. Stopping support now is another outrage.

Oh well. I suppose the whole CTP saga is a text-book case of how to swindle custormers with shoddy half-finished products. The pity is that they had some really good ideas like stacked combat and reducing micromanagement.

Wyrmo · January 22, 2001, 01:33

I'm most happy with getting a pirated version of this game, cuz it not only mean I haven't wasted money on a game that will never be done, but it also means that Activision isn't getting this money.
How can they make a sequal to a game and remove so many good features from the original one?
Like hotseat, PBEM, scenario-support in MP?
The AI sucks, diplomacy isn't finished and the game is generally buggy.
Scenario-support is what was most important to me, as well as hotseat, since me and my girlfriend loved playing CTP hotseated, and also making custom maps. Without the ability to have custom maps in MP, I will never buy this game, wich I thought I would do if it was good enough.
I bought CTP, and I don't regret it. I pirated CTP2, and I don't regret that either.
Just my oppinion.

MrFun · January 22, 2001, 01:36

I am an angry. :frown:

Not because I cannot accept the fact that companies are created to make money, not because I cannot accept the fact that companies have other projects to do. These are facts of business that I do accept.

I am angry because Activision has decided to completely neglect customer relations with CTPII players from here onwards.

I own only two games from Activison: CTP and CTPII. I am also a novice modifier for CTPII, but now, I will not be buying any more games from Activision. In fact, I am considering selling CTP I and CTP II once Civiliztaion III is released.

I have played Sid Meier's Civilization gmaes since the Super NES days. I am anxious to see how well Firaxis does with Civilization III.

ucel · January 22, 2001, 04:01

quote:

Originally posted by jkadabomb on 01-20-2001 05:24 PM
Alright Activision, I have been defending you from the start, but now I am totally pissed off after the work Ive seen other companies put into their games.

1. Look at valve. They fully supported HalfLife and spent many a month creating the free addon of Team Fortress Classic for it. In fact this was a very awsome mod. Along with that from the original halflife they added multiplayer support, and tons of customization ability. HalfLife has also been followed up with many patches and fixes. How long do you think it took them to create this?

2. Sierra created a free EXPANSION PACK for its great game of Ground Control. This aint no little scenario folkes.

These are only too examples but you can also look at plenty of other games.

Only one short and simple question:
How many patches has Microprose released for Civ2?

I think it was more than 10. And they didn't give it up...

quote:

We have been reviewing the posts by various forum members calling for additional patches to make the AI more challenging for them (...) These requests, which sound simple, are actually long, complex feature additions that would require up to 3-4 months of programming and testing time.

The game was released two months ago and there are already some mods which try to repair AI bug. They were written by people NOT from Activision and it has taken them less than 3-4 month to write it. Maybe the reason is they are not from Activision...

Let's wait for Civ3.
ucel

CC_Fully_Completely · January 22, 2001, 05:56

To whoever wrote that message, if you make a patch for CTP i'll be your best friend, and if you guys make an expansion pack, we can be more than just friends!

Gwap · January 22, 2001, 06:52

Up to now, I've not considered a game's producers as an issue when deciding what to buy... this will change.

*All* software has bugs... some serious, some minor, but bugs nonetheless. It is the way companies deal with these bugs that determines the longevity of the company (despite a certain company from Redmond apparently bucking that trend).

Unfortunately, many companies (and most games developers) cannot afford to provide after-care for their products. Setting the authorities onto this sort of thing would open the flood-gates, and may result in fewer titles at higher prices... and niche products such as those in the turn-based strategy games category may disappear entirely... there is much more money to be made of shoot/beat/race-em-ups.

So we have to hope that Firaxis/Hasbro take the moral highground on this one, patch any bugs (and there *will* be bugs) and provide the degree of openness that Activision have done (up to now).

P.S. If Activision is dropping the product entirely, why not throw the source code into the public domain... I'm sure there won't be much earth-shatteringly groundbreaking in the code anyway

------------------
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be
[This message has been edited by Gwap (edited January 22, 2001).]

Lee Johnson · January 22, 2001, 09:49

I can't say I'm surprised. I can't say I'm happy about it, either, but it's my fault for giving Activision my money in the first place. The company has demonstrated lukewarm support for its products time and time again; those of you who paid for the steaming mound of crap known as Heavy Gear (1) should know what I'm talking about. That game never worked properly on my system, and the patch that would have fixed its most egregious crashing problems was never officially released.

In my cynical view, the publishers are cutting their development costs by releasing incomplete products, and then refusing to budget an adequate amount of time and money to actually finish them properly.

Thanks for nothing, Activision!

Chris B · January 22, 2001, 10:25

quote:

Originally posted by MarkG on 01-20-2001 04:21 AM
I guess this means goodbye.
I would personally like to thank the CTP1/2 team members for their cooperation and help over the last years, from the last days of TFGC2S(and the first of Apolyton) until today.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrr, this mkes my blood boil!!!!! After serving us so long and so ardenty, tere just ackin up and leading us in the dust?????? This doesn't make sense at all.
Also, Im curious to know what "other projects" the team is moving on to?????
What could be more worth their time than Call to Power??????

Martock · January 22, 2001, 10:39

How i long for the days of the commodore 64 where games were produced for the most part by companies that cared for it's customers. WE were the cash cows to these companies and they treated US like gods. every game came with manual that explained every aspect (or the vast majority of them anyway) of the game and the games themselves weren't rushed to meet some marketing deadline (well they may have been under a deadline but it was a damn reasonable one that allowed the game to be made correctly)...sigh.

well those days are long gone now. i will NEVER buy another Activision game again. Activision needs to be humbled and disgraced before the industry. let them serve as an example to the others.

out of curiousity, anyone know a lawyer for a class action against Activison? maybe we can get our money back or at least spook that worthless company.

(i wish that big grin was in fact an evil grin!)

rah · January 22, 2001, 10:44

This was my first AND LAST experience with ACTIVISION.

And for any EXECs that may read this........

There is a profit to be made by customer service.
Companies that don't provide it disappear. And I hope Activision does too.

It's been over a year since CIVII MP was released. There were some initial problems and enough of them were resolved quite quickly. And the game was always playable. And guess what, the game is still selling. And people are waiting to pay $$$$ for CIVIII.

So live and learn or go bankrupt. You can all guess which I would prefer.

RAH
Word of mouth is a powerfull tool. Every persion you piss off tells ten more.

Atahualpa · January 22, 2001, 10:57

Sad sad sad story.

oh well at least Elite Force is quite

ATa

ajbera · January 22, 2001, 12:40

quote:

Originally posted by Martock on 01-22-2001 09:39 AM
out of curiousity, anyone know a lawyer for a class action against Activison? maybe we can get our money back or at least spook that worthless company.

(i wish that big grin was in fact an evil grin!)

Most attorneys will provide a free consultation session. It can't hurt for a dissatisfied buyer to approach a lawyer and discuss the possibility of a lawsuit. It is entirely possible that a lawsuit is not feasible for one reason or another, but, then again, it may be feasible. I haven't bought the game yet (I was waiting for Wes' mod, but now I'll wait 'til the prices drop really low and get it from the bargain bin or eBay) so I can't initiate a suit, but one of YOU can, and I recommend you do. I'm as tired of this bulls**t as anyone, though I'm not $50 poorer because of it. But we irate gameplayers must give voice to our grievances, through legal and economic channels when appropriate.

Steve Clark · January 22, 2001, 14:17

quote:

Originally posted by MarkG on 01-21-2001 09:12 PM
from CGO

Quote:

Front Office Football Central is reporting that EA Sports has no plans to issue a patch for its NFL GM sim, Front Office Football 2001. Despite claims from users that own Voodoo based video cards that the game is unplayable due to instabilty problems, the company issued a statement that the it could find no technical problems that were in need of a patch. An EA representative also stated that the company simply had no additional funds to continue to support Front Office Football 2001.

sound familiar??

Mark, as one who is quite involved at FOF Central and here at Apolyton, I can say that there are alternatives. I never had any interest in CtP or CtP2 (fortunately), but even if I had, there's always Civ2; just like there's always FOF 2000 instead of FOF 2001.