Just a few things about OCC - Page 2

Smash · January 6, 2000, 17:09

The one time gold bonus when establishing a trade route is matched by a one time beaker bonus as well.1 beaker for every 1 gold.Check your science advisor before and after delivery.

Aurelius · January 6, 2000, 19:26

Hunh!

There have been a few times in recent OCC games where I developed science remarkably fast, but I've always assumed it was just a lapse in the mind's log. So there is a good reason to look for cities with demand if you have the beaker space available--micromanaging gets pretty complex given this one time beaker bonus.

Aurelius--Hide's anyone?

Caesar the Great · January 6, 2000, 20:40

Does map size make a difference. I was recently playing an OCC game. Playing on a small map and the techs seem to come much faster. Is it me or does map size make a difference. There was a post about this before, but I'm too lazy to find it.

Has anyone else seen this. Thanks

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CtG

January 6, 2000, 21:00

i am thinking that unless your on a small map you would never keep up with the ai..... but i could be mistaken

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They Call Me Fierce. Mr. Fierce!

Caesar the Great · January 6, 2000, 23:23

I think someone here is a double log... never mind he's in my game

. I think that on a smaller map techs are researched faster. That has been my experience so far. But I might be wrong. Anyone know the answer? The first test of CIV OCC MP is up on the multiplayer board. I would like it if Paul went there and possibly posted.

Caesar the Great · January 6, 2000, 23:23

I think someone here is a double log... never mind he's in my game

. I think that on a smaller map techs are researched faster. That has been my experience so far. But I might be wrong. Anyone know the answer? The first test of CIV OCC MP is up on the multiplayer board. I would like it if Paul went there and possibly posted.

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CtG

Paul · January 7, 2000, 01:49

Yes, science goes faster on smaller maps. I have also tried one or two games on medium and large maps but never got close to my record. I will alos check out your MP thread.

January 7, 2000, 02:36

i am sure every has this figured out if they even care but War4ever has been murdered.... by that upstart Ethnic Clenser.... so if Dan or Mark could please give him the proper burial.... that would be greatly appreciated.

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They Call Me Fierce. Mr. Fierce!

Scouse Gits · January 7, 2000, 06:49

Just an addendum to the dialogue between Smash and Aurelius ...

I think that there is a posting somewhere on these boards (but I'm too lazy to go and find it) that states that the one time beaker bonus from a trade route is capped at two thirds of the outstanding beaker shortfall - hence put in your caravans early in a tech advance not at the last moment.

This ties in well with my own observations, but I don't micromanage sufficiently to be able to formally vedrify the concept.

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

Scouse Gits · January 7, 2000, 06:53

RIP W4E

EC - what is your objection to the letter 'A'?

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

Aurelius · January 8, 2000, 18:35

Hey Scouse Gits,

I just learned another unfortunate detail about onetime caravan bonus: Don't turn science completely off if you think you have the complete beakers for advancement. Micromanaging science is a bit touchy

Maybe I should have just kept one einstein on and turned off Science luxury.

This reminded me of a common question, are there diminished returns for using extreme luxury settings...I've always assumed it true.

Aurelius.

Caesar the Great · January 8, 2000, 21:50

This has turned from a disscussion from OCC to the death of War4ever. Word to the wise... war for ever will never survive

. Well I would like to get back on topic.

I would like someone to explain to me the disadvantages to advantages ratio of KRC in OCC? It has its disadvantages... yet its advantages should make it useful, you can get darwins much faster... as well as other key improvements. Well it might be better in my OCC MP game.

Not all can get the best wonders. Thats just a thought.

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CtG

Paul · January 9, 2000, 04:13

Yes, I have also noticed that if a caravan completely fills your beakers you will still not get the discovery if your science is zero.

About KRC: when I build it my shield production always goes over 20. This means pollution which has to be cleaned. That means that my settler will just be running around cleaning pollution and I have no time to improve the land.

January 10, 2000, 04:21

Paul,
You say you never build dips. Do you ever build ships solely to get caravans to a city with demand in a timely fashion? It can easily take 20-30 turns to reach a city with demand, more if a circuitous route is required. I've had cities change their demand just before I arrive, then I have to turn and schlep another 10-15 turns to another city.

A lowly coast-hugger can cut that by tens of turns if the target is on or near a coast. The risk of changing demand is greatly reduced and you benefit from tens of turns of trade. That seems like a significant cost benefit to me, much like sending a caravan to a nearer large city for the early trade route.

I don't know how you manage to get so much tribute and gifts from your neighbors. I keep hearing "We have no desire to ally with you" and "We ignore your feeble threats" etc. Unless I capture a barb chief or get a few really juicy money huts I can't buy Col until well over half completed. I'm usually too poor to rush build CO right after getting Astro. I resort to incrementally buying food caravans, which take at least 2 turns each but only cost <2.5 gold/shield instead of 4 gold/shield to rush a wonder.

Sten Sture · January 10, 2000, 20:31

Some of the AI hostility crow and dDon are seeing may be due to the decreased AI cooperation that most players have noticed in the newer Multiplayer Gold Edition (MGE)compared to the downright conciliatory AI in the older single player versions of civ. (v2.42, v2.78, v1.07 etc.)

After playing OCC on v2.42 for a while I got MGE and had to change my style of play to be quicker to get alliances and give away Map Making as soon as possible to try to get Maps in return trades.

Sometimes it doesn't work, but I have given away 5 techs (in the same turn) to try to get an AI civ favorably disposed enough toward me to trade maps. It seems like they need to be enthusiastic or worshipful to even think about it. In OCC, I don't care about giving away early techs, but Maps are crucial.

crowatbitemedotcom · January 11, 2000, 01:33

don D - I built my first dip in the OCC yesterday because when I was hut hunting I didn't get any fast units, so I sent my dip out to tip some huts. As far as building ships, in that same game the Aztecs sent a ship around to my city and so I knew where they were and built a trireme to send over 2 caravans. Since the target cities were large and on a different continent, it made building the ship worthwhile. Usually in the OCC my trading partners are on my continent. I too have difficulty with tribute and gifts, but I have an even harder time with trading maps. I almost always get 'we have no need for your useless maps' as a response, even from allies! It makes it a pain to try & figure out where their cities are, and I don't like to put my caravans at risk, but what can you do?

January 13, 2000, 07:25

Not me, I play 2.42 and don't have MGE. When they are "Neutral" I can see those reactions as expected, but in 2.42 most initial contacts start as "Receptive" or "Enthusiastic." It's only after some turns without contact that the surly or friendly nature of the leader starts to kick in.

Even when it says my power is Supreme and I've got three or more Archers on the periphery of their one or two (poorly defended) cities they still don't take demands seriously.

Steve Clark · January 13, 2000, 12:07

I think that is one of the key differences. In MGE, they start out at Neutral and with a few exceptions, the relations never get above that. Only when you give them five techs does it goes up, but only briefly and then back down the next turn.

Adam Smith · January 14, 2000, 10:14

I had 2.42 and gave it to my nephew. Now he his hooked, and I have to play on MGE. Alliances, maps, etc do seem harder. In order to counteract this, I bumped each of the civ's "Rational" (negotiating) values up one notch in the MGE Rules.txt file. This seems to have helped. You could also knock their "Aggressive" (military) values down one notch, but this does not appear to be so much of a problem.

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