FrenzyMod updates?

David Murray · February 26, 2001, 17:01

Hi,

Was just wondering if there are any planned updates for the FrenzyMod? Bug fixes, refinements, adding the no-Frenzy-when-allied code that BlueO posted in a previous thread?

I still don't get it with the unit updater--why does it only work for the human once all the AIs have the necessary tech and update their units first? Doesn't that eliminate the point of being the first to uncover new advances in warfare?

I think it's a great mod, as essential as the DiploMod, would be bad to see it dumped by the wayside.

[This message has been edited by David Murray (edited February 26, 2001).]

Dale · February 26, 2001, 18:00

Don't know about anyone else, but I don't think the unit-updater for humans is too good. I mean, it's hard enough for the AI already without the added problem of this. Usually I'm slow in the science ranking until late renaiss/early modern when the good units start becoming available (battleship/arty/tanks/machinegunner). By this stage I'm in the lead for science. Makes it even harder for the AI if I've fortified muskets and cannons near their cities then suddenly BANG they ALL upgrade to arty/machineguns. So I just don't think I deserve getting the auto-upgrading of units. If you did have the upgrade why would you bother spending heaps of shields on the expensive-powerful units when you could just build a hoplite, fortify it and BOOF, oooooo, now it's a marine!

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Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

David Murray · February 26, 2001, 18:36

quote:

Originally posted by Dale on 02-26-2001 05:00 PM
Don't know about anyone else, but I don't think the unit-updater for humans is too good. I mean, it's hard enough for the AI already without the added problem of this. Usually I'm slow in the science ranking until late renaiss/early modern when the good units start becoming available (battleship/arty/tanks/machinegunner). By this stage I'm in the lead for science. Makes it even harder for the AI if I've fortified muskets and cannons near their cities then suddenly BANG they ALL upgrade to arty/machineguns. So I just don't think I deserve getting the auto-upgrading of units. If you did have the upgrade why would you bother spending heaps of shields on the expensive-powerful units when you could just build a hoplite, fortify it and BOOF, oooooo, now it's a marine!

That's a very good point. Also remember, though, that it updates the AI units. If you play at a harder difficulty level, with Frenzy, you should find it more of a challenge as the AI will attack you with larger stacks and will also have a lead (or be equal with you) in terms of science. After all, I hate nothing than having about 120 Phalanx and archers, researching gunpowder and having to replace all of those units, many of whom are out in the field. It's simply too much hassle and not really very realistic.

Very hard level or impossible level with FrenzyMod should mean that the auto-upgrade shouldn't make things too tough for the AI, especially since it gets to use it first!

Dale · February 26, 2001, 23:56

I was talking about impossible level.

The way frenzy plays is the AI doesn't leave many units in its cities so I park half-size stacks of units near its cities then when it frenzies me I walk in and take out most of its cities with my half-stacks. He runs out of shields and has to disband his units. AI ends up with no frenzy and no defense. If my units auto-upgraded, it'd be even easier. Question: How could the AI use the new units if your units are auto-upgrading at the same time? This is what frenzy does. When one civ has a tech, all civs get the unit upgrades.

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Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

David Murray · February 27, 2001, 05:39

quote:

Originally posted by Dale on 02-26-2001 10:56 PM
I was talking about impossible level.

The way frenzy plays is the AI doesn't leave many units in its cities so I park half-size stacks of units near its cities then when it frenzies me I walk in and take out most of its cities with my half-stacks. He runs out of shields and has to disband his units. AI ends up with no frenzy and no defense. If my units auto-upgraded, it'd be even easier. Question: How could the AI use the new units if your units are auto-upgrading at the same time? This is what frenzy does. When one civ has a tech, all civs get the unit upgrades.

My experience when I've been playing is that the AI isn't that much of a walkover at the extreme difficulty levels, at least not for someone as useless at Civ games as me.

The idea that only the AI upgrades is something you'd only do like a kind of handicap for a really useless player. I want my units upgraded too, goddamnit.

AllenJ · February 27, 2001, 09:39

That is true about Frenzy mod that it doesnt leave to many units to defend its cities.
However you can change it in strategies.txt I think.
BlueO made it ONE unit for minimum garrison and so forth.
You can increase it and AI will better defend its cities.
AJ

Steve5304 · March 1, 2001, 20:12

i guess the biggest problem i have with the AI Performance is 1 of 2 things. After Careful study i came to the conclusion that the AI is Simply "hopeless" at war. Tho they are good at Defense...But they dont attack. I played games without an actual AI attack,Every now and then an AI will come out of its City walls and stand outside one of your citys. They however wont attack.....(unless of course the city is undefended , How they know this i dont know). But what really ticks me about the AI is that they refuse all your Diplomatic proposals outright! Unless of course you Threatin them into Enforcing Alliances and Trade pacts they signed (after Threating them to sign them also).Basically AI Diplo Refuses everything outright. And tthe Diplomod makes the AI accept everything outright. Default AI stays in citys and will nevr attack and with AI Frenzy Stacks of 12 simply Roam Aimlessly Through Borders(then leave there citys undefended).It is my opinion ,That all i want the AI to do now and then is to attack Baalbek or Bombard Berytus. This never happens and i hhope a mod oneday someone will make the AI actually Ventur out of its citys.

Dale · March 1, 2001, 20:46

Steve:
With the latest diplomacy mod on the files database, it shouldn't be accepting everything. I've had lots of reports of the AI actually snobbing you off. The reason the AI rejected everything in the unmodified CTP2 is because the default state is to refuse it. Then the AI would send you a proposal for the exact same thing (or worse counter-propose the exact same thing). After finishing the diplomacy mod I'll take a look at the Frenzy AI mod and see what I can do.

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Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

David Murray · March 2, 2001, 14:13

quote:

Originally posted by Dale on 03-01-2001 07:46 PM
Steve:
With the latest diplomacy mod on the files database, it shouldn't be accepting everything. I've had lots of reports of the AI actually snobbing you off. The reason the AI rejected everything in the unmodified CTP2 is because the default state is to refuse it. Then the AI would send you a proposal for the exact same thing (or worse counter-propose the exact same thing). After finishing the diplomacy mod I'll take a look at the Frenzy AI mod and see what I can do.

Hey,

I have noticed that with Diplomod and Frenzy the AI with regards to diplomacy is a lot better, however it is still very disappointing that the AI will not create treaties or strategical alliances with each other (unless of course you get them to the highest frenzy level, at which point they all gang up on the human player). Obviously this isn't a fixable problem, so never mind.

If you do have a look at Frenzy, that would be great, considering the wonders you've worked with Diplomacy! I still want to see a means for the human player to be able to logical unit upgrades, though.

Actually, I may have a look at the information on slic tonight and perhaps see if I can learn how to program things myself.

Steve5304 · March 2, 2001, 23:27

But then Again the AI is an AI , it puts itself into Situation and it reverts to a File to see how to deal with it. Simply Put the AI will never be a Functioning Entity that Launches Counter-Attacks. tho Diplomod/Frenzy did Bring about some Competition , The Simply Fact is the AI has trouble making up its mind and can be seen Wandering Back and forth between point A and B. Atleast theres a bit of humour to this,Example, When the AI builds a Trime in a 2 square Ocean..

.That still makes me Laugh cause they always do that. anyway Activision Shoulda Taken Lessonss from Sid Miers:Civilization 2 Test Of Time , The AI is Ferocoius in that game. no one complains about the AI ,simply Put the TOT Ai needed no Modification. Ai Decison Making Engine is Flawless, In TOT the AI will Come in your Territory and makes really smart moves. Such as Digging themselves in Between an Army and a city (thus preventing the army from Garrisoning the city) then moves a Separate force to attack it.Even more impressive is when you go to war with the AI in TOT- You will lose a City or two.But im not Here to Rant and Rave about TOT AI Intellegence, All i can do is hope that CIV3 will be Made Like TOT. And that Activisions next ,and last,Patch will Right were it went wrong.They also better have PBEM

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CTP2 PBEM seems like it is going to be very intersting...

Krakatoa · March 6, 2001, 08:05

How can I know frenzy is active on my game?? Is that true frenzy auto-upgrade old units to new units?? My units haven't upgraded so far...

Sugestion: like diplomod, put a Frenzy Welcome Screen on game start

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regards
Krakatoa