Population in CTP2

claytonres · January 7, 2001, 01:39

I have the largest civ in the world right now. 32 cities averaging 25 in size. I look at my civ population.

7 million?????

I have 32 cities nearly maxing out and I have less than the current pop of NYC in the real world????

I check Washington DC my largest (33)

Thirty thousand.

The suburb I grew up in has more than 30,000!!! AND IT"S A "BEDROOM COMMUNITY!!!"

claytonres · January 7, 2001, 01:45

At this rate, NYC would be size 6600!

Veracitas · January 7, 2001, 02:10

quote:

Originally posted by claytonres on 01-07-2001 12:39 AM
I check Washington DC my largest (33)

Thirty thousand.

The suburb I grew up in has more than 30,000!!! AND IT"S A "BEDROOM COMMUNITY!!!"

Actually, each citizen is 10000, which means your Washington D.C. is actually 330,000. But I agree that the population in all the civ-type games is kinda screwy...

red_jon · January 7, 2001, 08:03

Yeah, I've brought this up before.
The original CTP had the population increase with the technological age.

But even then the modern age populations were never enough (this was the same with Civ2)- take the UK as an example. It has 58 million people, yet there has been no Civ game to date that would be able to fit this number of people in on the British Isles.

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"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills, we shall never surrender!" -Winston Churchill

"Gotta love me"- Baby, Dinosaurs

Floris O · January 7, 2001, 08:16

And besides that, I don't think the population is very alive in CTP2, or any other Civ-game for that matter. They always react the same to my actions, in a monarchy, in a democracy; you name it. They do not move from city to city, they do not seem to work (isn't it a bit strange that assigning farmers is optional?), they do not mind if I change from Republic to Fascism, even if it is all going well in the Republic. There are a few turns of anarchy, but no one seems to get unhappy. The American people are the same as the Zulu people; only the leaders are somewhat different. The people are just not alive!

red_jon · January 9, 2001, 16:43

The problem with making the Americans different to the Zulus it will quickly get the game branded as racist.

I do agree with you though, but no Civ game seems to have achieved what you suggest.

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"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills, we shall never surrender!" -Winston Churchill

"Gotta love me"- Baby, Dinosaurs

Emperor10 · January 9, 2001, 18:14

Yeah, the population is not accurate in Civ games. I remember in Civ 2 when you had an empire that covered half the planet, and still end up with a mere 36 Million in the population department.

fatboy76 · January 9, 2001, 18:34

There is a spot in the scoring for cities that have over 5 million people or size 500. Does anyone even know hoe to break 60?

dcw3 · January 10, 2001, 15:57

quote:

Originally posted by fatboy76 on 01-09-2001 05:34 PM
There is a spot in the scoring for cities that have over 5 million people or size 500. Does anyone even know hoe to break 60?

I spent a day working on the same problem....45 cities stuck at population 60. I was going for the science victory, but also couldn't figure out how to get the Gaia Controller going...but that's for a different post.

Jerk · January 10, 2001, 17:41

Ok, just pretend that a city size of 1 is really 50,000 or some other number. It doesn't really have an impact on the game itself unless you consider score. If you alter the numbers so that the population would seem larger then you would have to decrease the value of each population to maintain balance in scoring. You could make these types of comparisons all day long to complain about the game. Size isn't right, time table isn't right (should it take decades to build one unit?). The average consumer doesn't have the computer power to scale the game to real life. The game would also move too slow and would lose its entertainment value.

red_jon · January 10, 2001, 19:09

I hardly think restoring the population values of CTP1 will make the game lose entertainment value.

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"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills, we shall never surrender!" -Winston Churchill

"Gotta love me"- Baby, Dinosaurs

fatboy76 · January 10, 2001, 20:46

All Im talking about is that if you kling on the scoreing tab in the rank menu then you will see a spot that says 1,000,000<=Cities<5,000,000 as well as a spot for cities with over 5 millin pop. But the highest anyone has ever gotten is 600,000. I wonder why there is a spot for cities this large if it is impossible to creat them. Im assuming that the players dont know somthing rather activision goofed. I dont know why. So what I want to know is there a way for cities to exceede 600,000 people?

Big Dave · January 11, 2001, 15:42

Actually, I find it far more probable that Activision goofed than that all the players in this thread are unable to figure out how to accomplish something.

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Big Dave

Do the Vatican police speak Pig Latin?

wheathin · January 11, 2001, 18:24

The citysize0X.txt files all top out at 60, for reasons I can't understand. They look like the lists of the various 'levels' of city radius size, but I don't know what the effects of altering the last 'level' from 60 to, say, 250 would be.

There are several files, each with the same numbers. Does each one belong to a specific age? (Classical, Modern, Genetic, etc.) Do they belong to different game levels? (Easy, Hard, etc.) DO they belong to different governments?

If someone wants to test this, feel free and let us know! If you can't get a city over size 60, why bother spacing them out real far?

red_jon · January 11, 2001, 18:56

Maybe thats how they decided to sort out the 'bigger is always better' problem

I got a horrible shock when all my cities reached 60- how realistic is it that all cities STOP GROWING at exactly the same population?

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"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills, we shall never surrender!" -Winston Churchill

"Gotta love me"- Baby, Dinosaurs

wheathin · January 12, 2001, 12:44

Note that in the editor, you can raise the size of a city to 100 at least. Feeding it requires many farmers, but the game won't crash.

Skeeve · March 6, 2001, 10:54

quote:

Originally posted by wheathin on 01-11-2001 05:24 PM
The citysize0X.txt files all top out at 60, for reasons I can't understand. They look like the lists of the various 'levels' of city radius size, but I don't know what the effects of altering the last 'level' from 60 to, say, 250 would be.

There are several files, each with the same numbers. Does each one belong to a specific age? (Classical, Modern, Genetic, etc.) Do they belong to different game levels? (Easy, Hard, etc.) DO they belong to different governments?

If someone wants to test this, feel free and let us know! If you can't get a city over size 60, why bother spacing them out real far?

Well, I just went to the 'citysize0X.txt' files and changed the last 'level' from 60 to 100. Then, I went to one of my saved games and all of my size-60 cities are still at zero growth! Argh. I guess I'll have to start from scratch and see what happens.

Can anyone help here?! I really want to get cities above 60 growing naturally... i.e. not using the editor. It seems pretty ridiculous that a city can be growing at a rate of 1200/turn at size 59, and upon reaching 60 it cuts straight to zero! Come on, get real. Oh how I long for Civ 3!
Sid Meier would never put up with such ILL logic!

[This message has been edited by Skeeve (edited March 06, 2001).]

Grandpa Troll · March 6, 2001, 14:05

quote:

Originally posted by hexagonian on 03-06-2001 12:55 PM
Check your city improvement settings in Buildings.txt. You can adjust the caps for the hospital, drug store etc. Once those caps are reached, the city cannot grow until you build the next level improvememnt.

I am just pointing the way much like another friend did me..

Accolades to dennis_caver for the following..and yes it works!

Here is what dennis_caver had to say...on this particular subject:
The max city size was shipped at 60. One issue with
this is that the Hospital city improvement does not
increase max city size as stated in both manuals.
So add a max city statement for Hospital in buildings
.txt and adjust arcologies and aqua filter.
I recommend the following max city sizes to get to
a max of 102.

Initial 18

Aqueduct 14 (N/C)
Hospital 17
Arcologies 25
Aqua filter 28

Also one will have to adjust the 'overcrowding'
parameter for each transition. For instance, I adjusted
them so that a little 'red growth' remained after each
transition after city size 19. (Except body exchange)
Note: This includes adjusting 'Drug store' and '
Incubation center'.

Dennis

Ok..I adjusted the overcrowding of each size improvement..by 2

Starting with Aqueduct..I left alone per your direction..then I added 2 to Hospital,Arcologies,Aqua Filter, Drug Store & Incubation..but NOT Body Exchange!

****Ok..instead of adjusting overcrowding of each improvement by 2..make it say by 5-6...that will give more "red growth area"****

Have a blessed day

Troll

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The Forum Fur Flyer

Skeeve · March 6, 2001, 15:05

Thanks, I'm going to try this right away!

hexagonian · March 7, 2001, 01:55

Check your city improvement settings in Buildings.txt. You can adjust the caps for the hospital, drug store etc. Once those caps are reached, the city cannot grow until you build the next level improvememnt.

Skeeve · March 12, 2001, 14:16

Update:

I have successfully completed a 'test-run' in which I only added a single line to the Hospital Improvement. I added the line: RaiseMaxPopulation 10. This gave a new maximum population of 70, and I have verified that it works.

Next, I'm going for the >100 maximum suggested by Dennis Caver.
(After I install Diplomod and possibly AI Frenzy, because I'm getting a little bored with the listless AI!)

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My reach exceeds my grasp!

Martin Gühmann · March 13, 2001, 01:20

The following lines are coppied from Appolyton Modification section.

Modification: Data File Definitions

\CTP2_DATA\DEFAULT\GAMEDATA\CitySize0X.txt

This file defines the area of influence and growth settings based on city size. There are 6 files (CitySize0.txt - CitySize5.txt) needed by the game.
One for each difficulty level.

Variables:
Population
-
Minimum population level for this size
SquaredRadius
-
Integer value of the squared radius of the area of influence for this city.
IntRadius
-
Integer value of the radius of the area of influence for this city. NOTE: IntRadius & SquaredRadius are used for
quick calculation of the area of influence of a city. These numbers can cause strange effect when not
configured correctly, change them with caution.
VisionRadius
-
Floating point value of the vision radius of this city
MaxWorkers
-
Maximum number of workers needed to collect all resources from this size influence ring
GrowthRate
-
Value used in the growth rate calculations
MinGrowthRate
-
Value used in the starvation calculations
MaxSurplusFood
-
Maximum amount of excess food to be used in growth calculations
BaseOvercrowding
-
Population level where overcrowding starts to take effect. Overcrowding causes growth rate to decrease.
NOTE: Buildings will usually increase this number and should not be increased in increase size settings.
BaseMaxPop
-
Maximum population of the city. NOTE: Buildings will usually increase this number and should not be
increased in increase size settings.

Example:
CITYSIZE_ZERO {
Population 0
SquaredRadius 0
IntRadius 0
MaxWorkers 0
GrowthRate 75
MinGrowthRate 2500
MaxSurplusFood 250
BaseOvercrowding 4
BaseMaxPop 18
VisionRadius 1.414
}

The line BaseMaxPop defines the maximum city size without buildings.
There is another important thing the entries below CITYSIZE_SIX are fore the maximum size. In the standard files the maximum Population is 60. That means no city is able to grow beyond this size.