The Size 60 Barrier

[Skeeve]

In an earlier thread there was some discussion on how to modify the game to overcome the size 60 population limit of cities (600,000).

So far, all I've done is to play around with the citysize0X.txt files, but to no avail. Of course, I must admit that I have no idea what I'm doing

If anyone can shed some light on this, please share! I know that you can place >60 size cities via the editor, but what I'd really like to see is a city with the ability to grow naturally above 60 (Perhaps slowing down a great deal near 100 or so).

Thanks for any help in this matter!

- Skeeve

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My reach exceeds my grasp!

[dennis_caver]

Look in the Ctp2-creation forum message #441 around Mar 1st.

This will get you to 102

Dennis

[Grandpa Troll]

quote: Originally posted by Skeeve on 03-06-2001 10:10 AM In an earlier thread there was some discussion on how to modify the game to overcome the size 60 population limit of cities (600,000). So far, all I've done is to play around with the citysize0X.txt files, but to no avail. Of course, I must admit that I have no idea what I'm doing If anyone can shed some light on this, please share! I know that you can place >60 size cities via the editor, but what I'd really like to see is a city with the ability to grow naturally above 60 (Perhaps slowing down a great deal near 100 or so). Thanks for any help in this matter! - Skeeve

Here you go my friend..

Thanksbe to dennis_caver..I be only a finger pointing the way..however it does work..I am usuing it currently!

Good Luck!

Here is what dennis_caver had to say...on this particular subject:
The max city size was shipped at 60. One issue with
this is that the Hospital city improvement does not
increase max city size as stated in both manuals.
So add a max city statement for Hospital in buildings
.txt and adjust arcologies and aqua filter.
I recommend the following max city sizes to get to
a max of 102.

Initial 18

Aqueduct 14 (N/C)
Hospital 17
Arcologies 25
Aqua filter 28

Also one will have to adjust the 'overcrowding'
parameter for each transition. For instance, I adjusted
them so that a little 'red growth' remained after each
transition after city size 19. (Except body exchange)
Note: This includes adjusting 'Drug store' and '
Incubation center'.

Dennis


Ok..I adjusted the overcrowding of each size improvement..by 2

Starting with Aqueduct..I left alone per your direction..then I added 2 to Hospital,Arcologies,Aqua Filter, Drug Store & Incubation..but NOT Body Exchange!

****Ok..instead of adjusting overcrowding of each improvement by 2..make it say by 5-6...that will give more "red growth area"****

Happy Civin Folks!

Troll


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If they call an orange an orange, why don't they call a banana a yellow?-Christopher Lloyd-Taxi

The Forum Fur Flyer

[Skeeve]

Thanks Troll, (and Dennis), I'm going to try this right away!

I suppose that you really can take some liberties with these numbers to grow... let's say the possibility of cities >200 in size.. hence 2,000,000 population!

I wonder if the massive city-sizes that the CTP2-Score suggests is possible can be achieved, though. Still seems a bit doubtful. (e.g., Size 500!)

Thanks much!

-- Skeeve



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My reach exceeds my grasp!

[leonli316]

Well, you could. I be happy to see city over size 60. I think it will be easier in CTP1 than in CTP2 b/e of the Senorium Wonder. So far the max size that i can make from my own is 56 and the city itself is facing a lot of unhappness all b/e of pollution from population

[Skeeve]

Oops.. forgot about the pollution problem.
Perhaps an Ecotopian Government with the Central Matter Decompilier will help us get large city-sizes. I was also thinking of editing the Buildings.txt file to change to pollution coefficient of the decompilers to say 0.65 or 0.7 from 0.5. This might tone down pollution enough as an alternative to simply turning pollution off altogether. (I would hate to render all those pollution-type improvements useless).

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My reach exceeds my grasp!

[hexagonian]

...or you can increase pollutions benefits to some other city building like Recycling Center or Public Transportation, or add pollution benefits to some other building.

[dennis_caver]

Hi fellow empire builders,

A small recommendation to my big city tweak. Because of the
technology tree, the Hospital city improv. should probably
be a prerequiste build to Arcologies city improv.



Selelunk forever,

Dennis

[Skeeve]

By that, do you mean adding the line:
PrerequisiteBuilding IMPROVE_HOSPITAL
to the Buildings.txt file under IMPROVE_ARCOLOGIES ?

Or is it more complicated than that?



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My reach exceeds my grasp!

[hexagonian]

Thats all you have to do - (look at other entries in buildings.txt for comparisons and placement of the added line).

[dennis_caver]

Skeeve - looks about right - Dennis

[dennis_caver]

Hi Skeeve,

That will probably work. I pick the numbers of 14 18
and 25 max pop based on the number of squares added
after each transition. For aqua filter the max pop
was set to get over 100. I'm currently playing the
game to verify I've got the right combo of max pop
and overcrowding for each square transition. The
overcrowding is set for a little red growth at each
transition ... increasing with pop. I think this is
realistic. I know that over 70 the pop is hungry and
pollution becomes more of a problem. Tile improvements
become more important.

See Ya at 100+,

Dennis

P.s. I don't know if the AI can build cities this big?

[hexagonian]

Did either of you go into the citysize.txt files and make any changes in there?

[Hannibal Ad Portas]

Hi

Found this while looking for something else and thought you like to
know what tiles are worked at each pop level.
Size
1-6 = 9
Size 7-18 = 21
Size 19-33 = 45
Size 34-46 =57
Size 47-… =69

Hannibal

[Skeeve]

I have an update with this thread based on my own experimentation:

I recently completed a game in which the only alteration was to add the line: RaiseMaxPopulation 10 to the Hospital improvement in Buildings.txt.

It worked like a charm, and I managed to get some cities to a total population of 70. Since Overcrowding was not changed, growth slowed down to a crawl around 68 and 69, and getting to finally cap off at 70 was a very long wait.

I have just started a new game (on impossible -- because the AI is too easy for me now), in which I've changed the following:

Aquafilter:

• RaiseOvercrowdingLevel 10 (originally 6)
• RaiseMaxPopulation 25 (originally 14)

Aqueduct:

• RaiseOvercrowdingLevel 10 (originally 6)
• RaiseMaxPopulation 17 (originally 14)

Arcology:

• RaiseOvercrowdingLevel 12 (originally 8)
• RaiseMaxPopulation 25 (originally 14)

Body Exchange:

• RaiseOvercrowdingLevel 15 (originally 12)
• No Max Pop line added

Drug Store:

• RaiseOvercrowdingLevel 10 (originally 4)
• No Max Pop line added

Hospital:

• RaiseOvercrowdingLevel 15 (originally 8)
• RaiseMaxPopulation 20 (originally 0 - No line)

Incubation Center:

• RaiseOvercrowdingLevel 20 (originally 12)
• No Max Pop line added

This should give an Overcrowding level of 96 and a Max Population of 105.
My theory is that getting to 105 will be slowed down greatly by Red Growth around 103-104.

I'm also playing around with the Maximum Absolute Growth from 2500 to 3000.
This should make getting to 105 a tad faster. (If it works).

Sorry this was so long!
If you've read this far, you must have been interested!

- Skeeve

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My reach exceeds my grasp!

[Skeeve]

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian on 03-14-2001 03:25 PM Did either of you go into the citysize.txt files and make any changes in there?

No, not yet at least. I have already verified that you can achieve a size 70 city without changing those files, and now I'm currently checking out the changes I mentioned above.

I'll post my results here when done.

Edit: Thanks Hannibal for those stats. I imagine that a size 100+ city will probably need close to 69 squares. (Just to keep the population fed)

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My reach exceeds my grasp!
[This message has been edited by Skeeve (edited March 15, 2001).]

[dennis_caver]

Nope - not yet

[Skeeve]

I have some Preliminary Results:

I am in the year 2225 on Impossible with the changes I listed above.
However... disappointment. Something is seriously wrong.
My cities have stopped growing at exactly 61.
I'm not sure what went wrong here, because in my previous test I was able to achieve a population of 70.

I think the problem is that I was playing around with too many parameters, and I changed something I shouldn't have.

Oh well, back to the drawing board I guess.

When I do this again, I'm not playing on Impossible. It's not that it's too hard, it's just too stressful for experimenting. One actually has to think a little to get ahead. (As opposed to being able to win while brain-dead on other levels).


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My reach exceeds my grasp!

[Skeeve]

Okay... now I'm totally confused.

I started a brand new game with only one change: I added the line to the Hospital improvement to give +15 city maximum.

However, My cities stopped growing at 61! Doh!... they should have reached 75. Also, overcrowding was not a problem. I'm stumped. I don't know why it worked once and now it doesn't.

Oh Well, I can't be bothered with this problem until the succession game is over. If anyone out there is trying to beat the Size 60 Barrier, please share! As for me, I'm on hiatus. *Skeeve dons sunglasses and takes in some rays*

- Skeeve

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My reach exceeds my grasp!

[Jonny]

Skeeve:

I tried the same changes to the buildings, but my cities also stopped growing at 61. I have no idea how to fix this, but I am trying. See you at the succession game.

Jonny

[Martin Gühmann]

I had the same problem but I edited the citysizeX.txt's. Every citysizeX.txt referres to a different level of difficuilty. Now here is an example:

CITYSIZE_ZERO {
Population 0
SquaredRadius 0
IntRadius 0
MaxWorkers 0
GrowthRate 75
MinGrowthRate 2500
MaxSurplusFood 250
BaseOvercrowding 4
BaseMaxPop 18
VisionRadius 1.414
}

CITYSIZE_ONE {
Population 6
SquaredRadius 2
IntRadius 1
MaxWorkers 6
GrowthRate 75
MinGrowthRate 2500
MaxSurplusFood 250
BaseOvercrowding 4
BaseMaxPop 18
VisionRadius 1.414
}

CITYSIZE_TWO {
Population 18
SquaredRadius 5
IntRadius 2
MaxWorkers 18
GrowthRate 75
MinGrowthRate 5000
MaxSurplusFood 500
BaseOvercrowding 4
BaseMaxPop 18
VisionRadius 2.236
}

CITYSIZE_THREE {
Population 32
SquaredRadius 13
IntRadius 3
MaxWorkers 32
GrowthRate 75
MinGrowthRate 7500
MaxSurplusFood 750
BaseOvercrowding 4
BaseMaxPop 32
VisionRadius 3.0
}

CITYSIZE_FOUR {
Population 46
SquaredRadius 17
IntRadius 4
MaxWorkers 46
GrowthRate 75
MinGrowthRate 10000
MaxSurplusFood 1000
BaseOvercrowding 4
BaseMaxPop 46
VisionRadius 3.4
}

CITYSIZE_FIVE {
Population 60
SquaredRadius 20
IntRadius 4
MaxWorkers 60
GrowthRate 75
MinGrowthRate 15000
MaxSurplusFood 150000
BaseOvercrowding 900
BaseMaxPop 999
VisionRadius 3.7
}

CITYSIZE_SIX {
Population 999
SquaredRadius 20
IntRadius 4
MaxWorkers 60
GrowthRate 75
MinGrowthRate 20000
MaxSurplusFood 200000
BaseOvercrowding 900
BaseMaxPop 999
VisionRadius 4.472
}

These modifications should allow my cities to grow til 999 without problems of overcrowding. The last CITYSIZE_xxxx defines the maximum population size of a city. But 999 is not the maximum, because I was also be able to create cities over 1000 by cheat editor. I just modified these lines in the scenarioeditor.ldl:

Pop:CTP2_SPINNER {
# MDS 08/2000
# int xpix 70
# int ypix 112
int xpix 58
int ypix 63
int widthpix 90
int minxval 0
int maxxval 20000
int incxval 1
int xval 1
string statustext "str_SE_PopSpinner"
string tipwindow "str_SE_PopSpinner"
}
Now I am able to create cities with a size of 20000 instead of 200.

-Martin