Map.txt and its uses

[EdCase]

Ok...i have stated before..I like to use 16+ civs on a "supersized" map say 210x420...I know I know I need a life

Up until now though any random map gave me "freckles" crazy little patchwork islands all around the main landmasses.........

Here is where map.txt comes in

the original reads(this is an extract for gigantic maps)

## Super Large Map

MAP_SIZE 70 140 {
# Very Large(Gigantic) Map - 0% Continents/Islands
{
MAP_NUM_CONTINENTS 70
MAP_MIN_WIDTH 8
MAP_MIN_HEIGHT 8
MAP_MAX_WIDTH 26
MAP_MAX_HEIGHT 40
MAP_BUMP_SIZE 24
MAP_MIN_SUBCONTINENTS 12
MAP_MAX_SUBCONTINENTS 24
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_SIZE 0.6
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_HEIGHT 0.4
MAP_BORDER_SIZE 15
MAP_FAULT_LINES 0
MAP_FAULT_LENGTH 1.0
MAP_NS_BORDER_SIZE 5
}
# Very Large(Gigantic) Map - 10% Continents/Islands
{
MAP_NUM_CONTINENTS 64
MAP_MIN_WIDTH 8
MAP_MIN_HEIGHT 8
MAP_MAX_WIDTH 46
MAP_MAX_HEIGHT 40
MAP_BUMP_SIZE 22
MAP_MIN_SUBCONTINENTS 12
MAP_MAX_SUBCONTINENTS 22
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_SIZE 0.6
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_HEIGHT 0.4
MAP_BORDER_SIZE 15
MAP_FAULT_LINES 0
MAP_FAULT_LENGTH 1.0
MAP_NS_BORDER_SIZE 5
}
# Very Large(Gigantic) Map - 20% Continents/Islands
{
MAP_NUM_CONTINENTS 58
MAP_MIN_WIDTH 8
MAP_MIN_HEIGHT 20
MAP_MAX_WIDTH 48
MAP_MAX_HEIGHT 42
MAP_BUMP_SIZE 18
MAP_MIN_SUBCONTINENTS 10
MAP_MAX_SUBCONTINENTS 20
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_SIZE 0.6
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_HEIGHT 0.5
MAP_BORDER_SIZE 15
MAP_FAULT_LINES 0
MAP_FAULT_LENGTH 1.0
MAP_NS_BORDER_SIZE 5
}
# Very Large(Gigantic) Map - 30% Continents/Islands
{
MAP_NUM_CONTINENTS 52
MAP_MIN_WIDTH 8
MAP_MIN_HEIGHT 10
MAP_MAX_WIDTH 28
MAP_MAX_HEIGHT 42
MAP_BUMP_SIZE 16
MAP_MIN_SUBCONTINENTS 10
MAP_MAX_SUBCONTINENTS 18
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_SIZE 0.6
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_HEIGHT 0.5
MAP_BORDER_SIZE 15
MAP_FAULT_LINES 0
MAP_FAULT_LENGTH 1.0
MAP_NS_BORDER_SIZE 5
}
# Very Large(Gigantic) Map - 40% Continents/Islands
{
MAP_NUM_CONTINENTS 48
MAP_MIN_WIDTH 8
MAP_MIN_HEIGHT 12
MAP_MAX_WIDTH 30
MAP_MAX_HEIGHT 44
MAP_BUMP_SIZE 13
MAP_MIN_SUBCONTINENTS 8
MAP_MAX_SUBCONTINENTS 16
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_SIZE 0.6
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_HEIGHT 0.6
MAP_BORDER_SIZE 15
MAP_FAULT_LINES 0
MAP_FAULT_LENGTH 1.0
MAP_NS_BORDER_SIZE 5
}
## Default \/ \/ \/
# Very Large(Gigantic) Map - 50% Continents/Islands
{
MAP_NUM_CONTINENTS 45
MAP_MIN_WIDTH 8
MAP_MIN_HEIGHT 12
MAP_MAX_WIDTH 30
MAP_MAX_HEIGHT 44
MAP_BUMP_SIZE 10
MAP_MIN_SUBCONTINENTS 8
MAP_MAX_SUBCONTINENTS 16
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_SIZE 0.6
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_HEIGHT 0.6
MAP_BORDER_SIZE 15
MAP_FAULT_LINES 0
MAP_FAULT_LENGTH 1.0
MAP_NS_BORDER_SIZE 5
}
# Very Large(Gigantic) Map - 60% Continents/Islands
{
MAP_NUM_CONTINENTS 42
MAP_MIN_WIDTH 10
MAP_MIN_HEIGHT 16
MAP_MAX_WIDTH 36
MAP_MAX_HEIGHT 56
MAP_BUMP_SIZE 10
MAP_MIN_SUBCONTINENTS 8
MAP_MAX_SUBCONTINENTS 16
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_SIZE 0.6
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_HEIGHT 0.6
MAP_BORDER_SIZE 15
MAP_FAULT_LINES 0
MAP_FAULT_LENGTH 1.0
MAP_NS_BORDER_SIZE 5
}
# Very Large(Gigantic) Map - 70% Continents/Islands
{
MAP_NUM_CONTINENTS 38
MAP_MIN_WIDTH 12
MAP_MIN_HEIGHT 20
MAP_MAX_WIDTH 40
MAP_MAX_HEIGHT 68
MAP_BUMP_SIZE 9
MAP_MIN_SUBCONTINENTS 8
MAP_MAX_SUBCONTINENTS 18
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_SIZE 0.7
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_HEIGHT 0.6
MAP_BORDER_SIZE 15
MAP_FAULT_LINES 0
MAP_FAULT_LENGTH 1.0
MAP_NS_BORDER_SIZE 5
}
# Very Large(Gigantic) Map - 80% Continents/Islands
{
MAP_NUM_CONTINENTS 36
MAP_MIN_WIDTH 14
MAP_MIN_HEIGHT 24
MAP_MAX_WIDTH 44
MAP_MAX_HEIGHT 80
MAP_BUMP_SIZE 9
MAP_MIN_SUBCONTINENTS 8
MAP_MAX_SUBCONTINENTS 18
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_SIZE 0.7
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_HEIGHT 0.6
MAP_BORDER_SIZE 15
MAP_FAULT_LINES 0
MAP_FAULT_LENGTH 1.0
MAP_NS_BORDER_SIZE 5
}
# Very Large(Gigantic) Map - 90% Continents/Islands
{
MAP_NUM_CONTINENTS 33
MAP_MIN_WIDTH 16
MAP_MIN_HEIGHT 28
MAP_MAX_WIDTH 48
MAP_MAX_HEIGHT 90
MAP_BUMP_SIZE 8
MAP_MIN_SUBCONTINENTS 8
MAP_MAX_SUBCONTINENTS 20
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_SIZE 0.8
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_HEIGHT 0.6
MAP_BORDER_SIZE 15
MAP_FAULT_LINES 0
MAP_FAULT_LENGTH 1.0
MAP_NS_BORDER_SIZE 5
}
# Very Large(Gigantic) Map - 100% Continents/Islands
{
MAP_NUM_CONTINENTS 20
MAP_MIN_WIDTH 20
MAP_MIN_HEIGHT 32
MAP_MAX_WIDTH 52
MAP_MAX_HEIGHT 100
MAP_BUMP_SIZE 8
MAP_MIN_SUBCONTINENTS 8
MAP_MAX_SUBCONTINENTS 20
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_SIZE 0.8
MAP_SUBCONTINENT_HEIGHT 0.6
MAP_BORDER_SIZE 15
MAP_FAULT_LINES 0
MAP_FAULT_LENGTH 1.0
MAP_NS_BORDER_SIZE 5
}
}
ok now I doubled up the map size in constr.txt,then went through this list and doubled up any variable that was min or max..It worked just as I hoped
A map without "freckles"

N.B. I have been playing with these variables on various sized maps and you can produce some very interesting results indeed.The largest map I have worked with so far was 210x420 and do not think I'll go any larger...

Finally by really messing with these settings...you can make the slider for ocean continent ratio MEAN something

Apologies for length of post..but I felt I had to share this

------------------
I'm not paranoid I KNOW they're watching me
EdCase

[MrFun]

I started drooling when I read this (joking).

I felt the default map sizes were too constricted so I changed all the sizes, setting gigantic at 90 x 180. But if I can make them larger without freezing or crashing (after I get rid of this f**king "Ruin Bug", then I will definitely check into this!

[EdCase]

Well I've been playing a game on a supersized map for a while...no freezes no crashes..and whats more your tech tree revisions,terrain adjustments etc seem to function smoothly Mr.Fun (yep i'm using them )
The map generated seems interesting so far..contact with 4 of the 30,discounting the barbs,other civs shows me I have sole possesion of a nice island..bout the size of a continent on the smaller maps LOL.
Good job it was close enough to a larger landmass for early boats though or I'd be getting lonely.
Incidentally if you want room to expand set the nice start= figure in constr.txt to 20,then other civs are generally more dispersed on the map

------------------
I'm not paranoid I KNOW they're watching me
EdCase

[MrFun]

You have found some interesting aspects of map manipulation that I have not looked at. I would like to keep in touch via e-mail if you would like. Great minds think alike.

[skorpion59]

Yes, they are. Also, change MapPlugin3=dll\\map\\plasma2.dll to MapPlugin3=dll\\map\\fault.dll in the userprofile.txt file in the [CTP2]\ctp_program\ctp directory.

If you have time, try cruising the older posts. You will find all this plus lots more tips and tricks which still hold true for CtP2. Maybe some bumping would help keep people from spending to many hours reinventing the wheel.

[wysiwyg]

If I use the fault.dll then the game seems to use the meridian data but does so rather severely. The map is striped with clear cutoffs. Increasing diversity helps some but not enough. Perhaps this is why that plugin wasn't used? There doesn't seem to be any 'fudge factor' in the meridian use with fault.dll.

quote: Originally posted by skorpion59 on 12-03-2000 01:52 PM Yes, they are. Also, change MapPlugin3=dll\\map\\plasma2.dll to MapPlugin3=dll\\map\\fault.dll in the userprofile.txt file in the [CTP2]\ctp_program\ctp directory. If you have time, try cruising the older posts. You will find all this plus lots more tips and tricks which still hold true for CtP2. Maybe some bumping would help keep people from spending to many hours reinventing the wheel.

[EdCase]

Mr Skorpion? Older posts? if you mean ctp I gave that up ...it was such a kludge..in fact I almost bailed on CTPII. But I just cannot resist a new civ game
Incidentally I posted here,help and suggestions about the "freckles" no one replied..either they didn't know..didn't care...or intended to use in their own super-mod......SO I fixed for myself

Mr.Fun I would be more than happy to communicate by e-mail...although I know nothing about SLIC..feel free to bounce any info you find and I'll reciprocate..LOL maybe we'll produce our own mod eventually

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I'm not paranoid I KNOW they're watching me
EdCase
[This message has been edited by EdCase (edited December 03, 2000).]

[wysiwyg]

Are the two files to change map.txt and const.txt?
[This message has been edited by wysiwyg (edited December 03, 2000).]

[skorpion59]

WYSIWYG,
I guess that just shows how different we all are in what we like and dislike. That is one reason map generation is such a tricky and touchy issue. The Activision Designers recommended 'fault' as well as some other map.txt specific changes back in the CtP1 days. I tried them, liked them and stuck with them.


Ed,
Yeah, I meant CtP1. Just because you didn't play it doesn't mean you can't gain some knowledge from it.

I am about the only CtP1 map-modifier, map-maker (that stuck with it) so not many others would be able to answer your 'freckles' question. Unfortunately, because of some health issues, I haven't been able to spend much time here at Apolyton but I do hope to change that.

And I am very thrilled so many people have taken up the CtP2 map making/map scenario creation process. It sure will make my life a lot easier.

[Mog Dug]

what I like to see in a map is at least 2 seperate super continents that are seperated by deep water.

the only way I can get this is usually to use a gigantic map with 90% ocean, and mostly continents.

anyone have any suggestions? I like to have to wait a bit before I can explore the whole world, and havine landmasses seperated by deep water helps.

though, I've also triples movement rates for all ships.

[MrFun]

In my opinion Mog Dog, you did not set realistic ship movement rates by tripling it. In the 18th century, it took 3 months for British ships to reach North America. You're looking for sailing ships with the speed of light?

But everyone has their own preferences. I kept ship movement rates unmodified except for Battleship - added one more movement point.

[Mog Dug]

Well, I said tripled for simplicity, for coracles I have the movement set at 6, for longboats, 6 as well. but for powered boats, I'm still adjusting and balancing them.

I'd appreciate any suggestions, but basicly what I want is to be able to sail across deep water in 2-3 turns. and be able to load and unload troops.

I find that any longer and my boats are too much at risk of detection, and I don't have any move points for manuvering. also, invsions over seas take too long for me, I get frustrated.

I think I have subs at 20 and destroyers at 35, I'm not certain at the moment, and I have seperate unit.txt files for different size worlds.

does anyone else find ocean movement to be to slow? magellean's boat took 3 years to circle the earth, I think. I'm aiming more that time span. it may throw off some game balance, but I find the AI does alot more exploring, and does better with colonizing and oversea invasions.

I havn't changed movement values for any air units.

[MrFun]

It might improve AI's capability with increased naval movement points, but for the human player where is the logistical challenge if you increase movement points so high?

[Mog Dug]

I started upping the movement values for boats, after playing a really good WW2 scenario in Civ2. It took so long for my japanese carriers to get to the US west coast, that I felt the need to get there in 3 turns. so I boosted the move points, to 10 or so.

The pacific is big, but you should be able to cross it in less than a year.

It also makes exploring alot more interesting for me, not having to press the nest turn button after every other square my coracle moves into.

[TheBirdMan]

As I see it, the problem isn't really the "next turn". It is the timeline.

When you make a scenario or something like this, it would be lovely, if you were able to change the "year" to "months" or even "weeks/days".

Then everybody would accept two-five-ten turns to get to some other place or to "manage" the troops for an attack/defense.

Right???????

[Locutus]

TheBirdMan,

In CtPII you can, you can put a file turnlenth.txt in your standard scenario folder (scen0000) in which you have complete freedom to set the 'date' on a turn to turn basis. Works fabulously

------------------
"The most likely way for the world to be destroyed, most experts agree, is by accident. That's where we come in; we're computer professionals. We cause accidents." - Nathaniel Borenstein

[EdCase]

Well as far as it goes ,I think I'll limit my map sizes to 140 x 280 anything larger and the generator gets mighty touchy.....course i'm still going to tweak it until I get the kinds of maps I want.
And Skprpion thanks for the info....one thing though do you happen to know the max values the variables will go to....crashing the exe ...reloading...ad infinitum gets old real fast

------------------
I'm not paranoid I KNOW they're watching me
EdCase

[Elucidus]

I have to say I went through and made similar changes, based on what you wrote here, and I was very pleased. I had the same splotchy pattern you were talking about. I did things slightly different though. I made the map.txt and Const.txt default sizes as follows-

Small....35 x 70
Medium...70 x 140
Large....140 x 280
Huge.....210 x 420

In the Map.txt I basically doubled and tripled the values accordingly and everything has worked out beutifully. We'll see how it keeps working. Thank you for the info.

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Yours in gaming,
~Elucidus

[skorpion59]

Ed,

Are you talking about the variables which Elucidus mentioned above (map.txt) or others?

The problem is the AI doesn't know how to correctly play on larger maps. Tweaking the map.txt variables makes the generated map look better but it doesn't do anything as far as actually playing the game. There is so many variables used throughout the game that it is vitually impossible to change them all. The human is smart enough to get around this but the AI is not. The bigger you go, the worse you skew the game playability.

I know where you are coming from though. I spent 6 weeks straight learning the correct way of doing everything. Change, crash, reboot, change, crash, reboot, change, crash, reboot......

The real fun part is when you try to get others to play the game. That is where you learn the most. If you want others to be able to play your scenario, only create it with the default installation. You can't create scenarios utilizing mods unless it is specifically for that mod.

[This message has been edited by skorpion59 (edited December 06, 2000).]