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Old March 23, 2000, 07:42   #91
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Eh? Hogan's heroes was the stuff of legend, especially after everyone found out how Bob Crane died


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Old March 23, 2000, 08:33   #92
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Mmm. Bob's death was the only laugh I got out of anything associated with the show.

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Old March 23, 2000, 20:00   #93
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Yes but knowledge of the curse of Hogan's Heroes makes watching the show perverse and macabre.


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Old March 24, 2000, 00:29   #94
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AH-You think Hogan's Heros is perverse? I know someone in Germany who loves it, so I guess I agree with ya there!

:P

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-KhanMan the paranoid expansionist
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Old March 24, 2000, 00:45   #95
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Hogan's Heroes' only curse (still is and) was that it (still isn't and) wasn't ever in the slightest bit amusing. It didn't even have the courage to be in really bad taste. In fact, that's its major crime - it trod accidentally into the area of bad taste.

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Old March 24, 2000, 01:11   #96
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Change the subject! Change the subject!

[This message has been edited by Alexander's Horse (edited March 24, 2000).]
 
Old March 24, 2000, 07:28   #97
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Isn't it time this moved to OT??

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Old March 24, 2000, 09:49   #98
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NO, my next post will be on topic, replying to Monk


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Old March 24, 2000, 10:45   #99
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I think is discussion is useless; no side, neither AH nor all the others can claim the ultimate victory in this thread or will ever be able to. In fact, there are cities in the world which are built on mountains, hills and/or something else, some people have posted a fwe examples, so i don't wnat to count any others). Surely, many of them started their existence as being forts. But building cities on a mountains square in civ2 has definitely such an irrealistic effect, that AH is right to ask the question: "Should players be allowed...?", because it's really a different thing whether they constructed cities on a mountain long time ago or whether you do it in civ2 (because of the defense advantage). But the historical background should not be a base for playing a game like civ2.
In my opinion, if every participant of a CIV2-MGE-Game is content with an interne rule, that city-construction on mountains is not allowed, than there would be no problem.

And I for myself really think, that players should not be allowed to get such an advantage. So I can only support AH's thinking
 
Old March 24, 2000, 16:28   #100
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Why are people still posting on this thread? Why do people post to AH's topics at all? It's amazing that no one else can see what is happening here. AH enjoys this type of discussion, with all of its conflict and insults. He likes to start a thread with a vague and generally surprising statement and everyone just jumps at it and at AH. The thing is, AH loves it! He gets a kick out of the 3+ page threads. I guess it's the only way he can accomplish something in life...a long thread. Well, way to go AH. Way to go. You are the man. I have nothing else say about you. I don't want to play into your hands any further.

Don't play his game any more!
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Old March 24, 2000, 17:08   #101
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I'm new at Apolyton and this thread was the first one by AH that I saw. I found it quite interesting because I had already asked the same question to myself. But during my exploration tour I found more and more threads with sometimes silly or sometimes even interesting topics started by - Alexander's Horse. Now, when I read your post, I found it quite funny, because I made an similar experience. I wonder: when you think that AH is such a guy, don't all the others recognize it? Even Ming, one of the most experienced posters still discusses about these topics. Also, I don't think that especially this topic should be taken too less seriously.

All in all I must say: Be careful with judging people too fast...
 
Old March 24, 2000, 17:52   #102
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Good gawd man, just be thankful no one's talking about tanks!
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Old March 24, 2000, 18:05   #103
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I am not judging anyone. I am simply sharing my observations. I believe that AH starts silly discussions. That's all. I really have nothing against AH. I have even complemented him on one thread concerning one of his Civ 2 articles, which I thought was brilliant. Please don't start with the "Thou shall not judge BS." I don't intend my post to be judgmental. It's only a theory.
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Old March 24, 2000, 18:22   #104
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I really didn't want to insult you. If "judge" had been the wrong word, then I have to apologize. Otherwise, I may have misunderstood you. I think you shouldn't longer worry about that
 
Old March 24, 2000, 18:26   #105
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So which is better, a T-34 fortified on a mountain or an M1A1 on a Hill???


To whom it concerns:

I tip my hat to AH for being able to stimulate discussion on threads serious and not, by using cleverness and hyperbole. I am a big fan.

Sincerely,

Sten Sture
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Old March 24, 2000, 18:50   #106
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I thoroughly enjoy AH's threads, especially the inane ones.
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Old March 24, 2000, 19:42   #107
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Hey, any thread in an On Topic forum that discusses something about games and is also POPULAR... go team go.

And especially when AH brings his particular brand of humor... How can one not offer up an opinion on this topic. And it is entertaining too.

May we have more of these kind of game related threads

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Old March 24, 2000, 23:43   #108
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Andz83, welcome to Apolyton!

quote:


1. You aren't right. In an MP Game, there could be some players who are able to build cities on mountains because they have got mountain terain inside of their countries. But there could also be players who are not able to build cities on mountains or even hills because their whole empire is situated in flat land (theoretically).

2. So we can say that also this point is not answered with your arguments. If there's really a player who has mountain terrain and can build cities on it, then he has an advantage over a player who isn't able to do it.


Andz83, I don't agree with your logic. Some players may have relatively few rivers in their area, or maybe they start out on a small island (please don't anyone mention Gilligan ). Would you then argue that no one should be allowed to build cities on rivers since some players may not have the same opportunity? Luck is an important part of the game, just like in Real Life(tm).

Ming's point about realism stands. The game is an abstraction of reality. As such, some of it accurately reflects reality, other parts do not. Where the line is drawn determines a good game. By and large, with Civ2, the line is about were it should be (unless someone wants to complain about games not really lasting thousands of years as they should.

- mindseye
PS: is there any way to restrict rail movement?


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Old March 24, 2000, 23:51   #109
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Hmmm...?! What was that about tanks?!
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Old March 25, 2000, 01:28   #110
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First, the option is available to ALL players in an MP game, so there is no advantage or disadvantge.

Second, the game allows you to do it. Now, some would argue that the game lets you do a lot that is considered cheating, but I still have seen no evidence here that it should be considered cheating. You get defensive advantages for building on rivers, in forests, on hills... what's the difference.
It seems like it has only become an issue because somebody tried to an attack a city, and lost

And again, I don't even want to hear the "realism" line. Whether there are real cities built on mountains in real life doesn't really matter. There are tons of things that aren't realistic in civ. How about the unlimited movement on railroads... now that's realistic. I haven't heard people say that using railroads is cheating or shouldn't be allowed.

So next time you run across a city in a mountain...
Bribe it.
Nuke it.
Attack with better units.
Or go around it if you can.
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Old March 25, 2000, 01:42   #111
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Ming:

1. You aren't right. In an MP Game, there could be some players who are able to build cities on mountains because they have got mountain terain inside of their countries. But there could also be players who are not able to build cities on mountains or even hills because their whole mepire is situated in flat land (theoretically).

2. So we can say that also this point is not answered with your arguments. If there's really a player who has mountain terrain and can build cities on it, then he has an advantage over a player who isn't able to do it. Also I never claimed that building cities on mountains should be considered cheating.

However, it IS a difference, whether the defense bonus is 50% (river/ forest) or 200%(mountain).

3. I don't understand why not talking about realism in computer games, but I think you#ve heard enough about it and when that's your opinion, so let's stop discussing about realism for this time...

Another question:
How can I set such a little smiley icon within my text?
 
Old March 25, 2000, 03:00   #112
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Nothing...SS was just emulating the great AH...


-KM
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Old March 25, 2000, 04:08   #113
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Certainly noone could build a city on the Materhorn (sp) but there have been mountain cities,the Aztecs built a few. I think that generally though most mountains could not produce the single food that the game gives them and many mountains would freeze their citizens the first winter. So I think that in Civ 2 mountain cities should not be permitted even though mountain cities do exist in fact. It's just too convienient to be able to drop a city on any ol mountain for strategic reasons when in real life odds are so great against any particular mountain being able to support life.
I think in Civ 3 there should be several types of mountains that are climate orriented. Some few mountains in temperate and tropical regions should be able to support life but these mountains should be as rare as gold is in Civ2.

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Old March 25, 2000, 11:01   #114
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mindseye:

1. Surely, if any player is disadvantaged in a game in any way, all participants of the game might consider limitations. But I think, as you say, that it would go to far in connection with rivers and hills. Surely, if one player gots bad luck, he has to make the best of it

2. Uh oh, I think we should stop this discussion about realism. But the fact that Civ2 isn't very realistic, should be a reason for a discussion about limitations like this. But obviously we'll never agree in this point

3. I don't know whether there's a possibility to restrict the movement rate of a railroad via changing the game files, if you are talking about this. When you mean how to restrict rail movement in an MP-Game: forget it...
 
Old March 25, 2000, 11:12   #115
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Any opinions on how large a square in the game is? I generally assume a square is twenty to fifty miles on a side, which is why I've never had a problem with mountain cities--you've got to assume there's livable terrain in there somewhere.
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Old March 25, 2000, 11:25   #116
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Eh? WTF happened here people?


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Old March 25, 2000, 11:40   #117
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I have problems with mountain cities in 'no bribe' games. Pretty dubious tactic in that case.

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Old March 25, 2000, 11:49   #118
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Nice to meet you personally, AH
 
Old March 25, 2000, 12:05   #119
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quote:

Originally posted by Wezil on 03-25-2000 10:40 AM
I have problems with mountain cities in 'no bribe' games. Pretty dubious tactic in that case.




EXACTLY, Its so unsporting.




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Old March 25, 2000, 20:41   #120
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so what then..... you can only bribe cities with mountains ...... what about a one square island....... are you allowed to bribe that too
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