Revolutions

AweZoZo · January 27, 2001, 17:06

Why is it that only one city will form a new civ with no units after a revolution? I think this is silly. After most revolutions that I`ve heard of there has been massive civil wars and toppling of governments and such. Is anyone thinking about this for a new mod?

OmniGod · January 27, 2001, 17:38

There must be a way with slic to build like 5 units in a city that just revolted with the most advanced troops of the time (or maybe just a little less than the most advanced). Since I'm not strong in slic yet...

... I don't have an answer... Dale, Locutus, Blue?

Rich

Locutus · January 30, 2001, 07:21

Yeah, this was changed either right before release or with the patch. I clearly remember playing a pre-release version of the game where cities that changed owner did keep their armies. I think Activision changed this because giving away a city also gave away any units inside that city at that time and the AI isn't smart enough to remove units from cities before giving them away or whatever. As it is now, the units inside these cities get teleported to other nearby cities before a owner-change happens. No-one at Activision considered the side-effects however: both revolutions and the Alexander scenario are all screwed up because of this. For the Alex scenario we where able to solve it, but I'm not sure if the same trick would apply to revolutions, but it sure is worth a try. The idea would be to store all units that are in a city right before a revolt (pre) in an array and to kill those units (so they can't be teleported to other cities). Then, right after the revolt (post), put all units in the array in the revolted city so the new owner will get the old units. A bonus would be to store veteran and health status as well. Anyone feel like trying this? I think Radical has the version of the code for the Alexander scenario, at least parts of that are probably useful for a general fix as well. If he doesn't read this himself I'll email him about it later.

Dale · January 30, 2001, 18:09

Maybe something else to have a go at might be something like this:

- City changes hands
- Current units warp to old owner's cities.
- 2 new units popup of the current age's defensive (hoplite/archer, pike/cata, rifle/cannon, etc).

It shouldn't be too hard to SLIC something like this. Maybe in the Med Mod you get 2 free militia? Any thoughts or someone wanna give it a go?

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

Locutus · January 31, 2001, 06:28

Well, that would be an option as well and quite easy to implement.

Gwap · January 31, 2001, 08:56

Question? At what tech level would you create the units? Tech level of the civ that loses the city; tech level of the city causing the revolution, or some average?

I would chose the former: the population of town doesn't suddenly discover all kinds of new weapons technology. In fact, they may have to make do with whatever is in the shops, so one or more levels below that of their former masters.

Alternatively, you could assume that the population of the city was receiving arms from the civ that inspired the revolution (still not the most advanced stuff).

Just to ponder, and then reject when it is too difficult/impossible to program in

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Nostalgia isn't what it used to be
[This message has been edited by Gwap (edited January 31, 2001).]

Dale · January 31, 2001, 17:48

Be better for the lowest tech level out of the two civs. If civ[a] is in rifle/cannon era and civ[b] is in pike/catapult era, wouldn't it be strange if a city revolted from civ[a] to civ[b] and create a rifle/cannon when civ[b] don't know it? Be more likely that if a city revolted, the arms it receives from civ[b] would be pikes/cata's.

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

Alpha Wolf · January 31, 2001, 19:29

Are the units teleported or killed? From my observations, I've seen and heard them die. I bought one of two cities from a civ after watching 8 units just walk into it. I had the other city totally surrounded and when I attacked a few turns later, there were only a few units there. I definitely wish the units would in some way just leave the city, even if its just to kill them and recreate them just outside the city.

Out of curiousity, why do so many people like this free unit concept? Isnt the game easy enough without freebies. Plus I dont see the realistic value that a purchased city would immediately embrace their new owners. Realistically i'd expect some anarchy until the new civ sends in troops. there's an area between france and germany that changed hands frequently in the 1800s, anyone know how those cities acted? To me thats the perfect real life case study for this topic.

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History is written by the victor.

Dale · February 1, 2001, 17:21

Point well made. But in a revolution, the city is throwing the yoke of its old rulers. Either they go barbarian or join another civ or even start a new civ. Eg. Use a spy to incite revolution, and basically you're sending in arms to help the revolutionarys throw the yoke. You would have a basic unit then, the group that revolted. In the case of just buying a city, yes you shouldn't get free troops. But the existing ones should at least warp to the old ruler.

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."