February 1, 2001, 15:31
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#91
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Local Time: 01:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA, USA
Posts: 1,053
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This thread has been dead for a bit. Are people still on this? Its needed more than ever, as the following article shows:
Climate change blamed for Mayans' downfall
ANNE McILROY
Globe and Mail
Tuesday, January 30, 2001
Abrupt climate change triggered the collapse of the Classic Mayan civilization in the ninth century and the sudden downfall of other ancient civilizations around the world, a paper in the journal Science says.
New information from lake-sediment cores shows that prolonged, severe drought helped bring about the end of the Classic Mayans, who built elaborate city-states in the jungles of Mexico and parts of Central America, produced beautiful works of art and developed a sophisticated writing system.
That civilization disappeared within a span of a few years near the end of the ninth century AD, coinciding with the most severe drought of the millennium.
Ice or sediment-core evidence also suggests that drought or a sudden drop in temperature were linked to the collapse of the ancient hunting and gathering Natufian communities in southwest Asia-Middle East between 12,500 and 11,500 years ago.
A catastrophic drought and drop in temperature contributed to the death of several societies in the Middle East and Greece around 2290 BC, including the Old Kingdom civilizations of Egypt, the paper said.
In the past, archeologists have concluded that social, political and economic factors brought an end to the Maya and other societies that once flourished. Now, Henry Weiss of Yale University is arguing that climate change was also a factor, and that modern societies should take note, because global warming could radically change our world.
"There is mounting evidence that many cases of societal collapse were associated with changes in climate. These climatic events were abrupt, involved new conditions that were unfamiliar to the inhabitants of the time, and persisted for decades," he writes in the latest issue of Science.
Dr. Weiss says there may be lessons in the past as the governments of the modern world grapple with climate change caused by increased amounts of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases building up in the atmosphere
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February 1, 2001, 15:43
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#92
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Local Time: 01:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA, USA
Posts: 1,053
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Oh, and here's another one.
Analysis: Giant quakes shook human history
Wednesday, 31 January 2001 9:11 (ET)
Analysis: Giant quakes shook human history
By MARTIN SIEFF, UPI Senior News Analyst
WASHINGTON, Jan. 31 (UPI) -- The death toll from the Gujarat earthquake in
India continues to climb, with fears that it may pass the 100,000 mark,
making it the worst natural disaster the world has seen in nearly 25 years.
The tragedy is a sobering reminder of the vulnerability of human society
against such cataclysmic events.
Throughout history, earthquakes and other natural disasters often have
been seen as the wrath of God or signs of divine displeasure on existing
governments. But they have been as good for religion as they have been
disruptive for the state.
The 1976 Tangshan quake in China, which killed 240,000 people, caused the
largest loss of life in more than 400 years of history. It was widely seen
at the time as an omen that the era of Mao Zedong was over after 28 years
and that a new epoch in Chinese history was about to begin. Sure enough,
within two years, paramount leader Deng Xiaoping would launch his
dramatically successful free-market reforms to enthusiastic popular support.
The Richter scale, on which quakes are measured, is arranged
logarithmically so that an increase in magnitude of one unit represents a
tenfold increase in earthquake size. So, a quake of magnitude 8 is 10,000
times more powerful than one of magnitude 4. The Tanghsan quake registered
7.8 on the Richter scale. By contrast, the Gujarat quake had a magnitude of
7.9.
If current estimates prove accurate, then last week's quake was by far the
worst India has experienced this century in terms of the casualties it
inflicted.
The two most destructive earthquakes in human history are believed to have
been the 1556 quake in Shansi Province, China, which killed around 830,000
people, and a medieval quake in Upper Egypt in 1201 that is estimated by
chroniclers at the time to have killed 1 million people.
The French archaeologist Claude Schaeffer, excavator of the Bronze Age
city of Ugarit in Syria, believed that enormous quakes thousands of years
ago periodically wrecked cities throughout the Near East, bringing to an end
the Early Bronze Age and later disrupting civilization repeatedly.
Schaeffer, who held the chair of Western Asian archaeology at the College
de France, documented his evidence in his 1948 book, "Stratigraphee Comparee
et Chronologie de l'Asie Occidentale (IIIe et IIe Millenaires)" -
("Comparative Stratigraphy and Chronology of Western Asia in the 3rd and 2nd
Millennia.")
A massive earthquake in Crete -- still a seismically sensitive zone -- is
believed by many archaeologists to have destroyed the high civilization of
Middle Bronze Age Crete. Half a millennium later, the Minoan civilization of
Crete was devastated again, this time by a volcanic explosion on the island
of Santorini, thought by many to have been the inspiration for the legend of
Atlantis.
The city of Troy, immortalized by Homer in his Iliad, was found by
archaeologists to have been destroyed by earthquake many times and
repeatedly rebuilt.
The most physically powerful earthquakes recorded this century registered
8.6 on the Richter scale and occurred in Kashmir in India in 1905, killing
19,000 people, and Valparaiso, Chile, in 1906, killing 1,500 people. The
contrast in casualties reflected the thin population in the Chilean quake
zone.
However, the most powerful earthquake ever believed to have occurred in
documented history occurred in the continental United States. It was the
1811 New Madrid, Mo., quake, believed to have touched 8.7 on the Richter
scale. It was so powerful, it radically changed the course of the
Mississippi River.
In those days, the region was lightly populated and so the Indian tribes
there were not exposed to death from collapsing buildings. But if a quake of
that magnitude were to occur in that region today, near St. Louis, hundreds
of thousands would die.
In 1923, Tokyo was destroyed by an earthquake that registered 8.3 on the
Richter scale. It is believed to have been the most severe earthquake to
strike a major city in recorded history. Estimates of the death toll vary
from 99,000 to 150,000. It was at least as destructive as the U.S.
firebombing of Tokyo in 1945. Some psychologists and anthropologists have
even theorized that the immense popularity of Godzilla and other monster
movies in Japan in the 1950s and 1960s was in some way a reaction to the
1923 quake and the 1945 fire bombing.
Earthquakes are testimony not only to the wrath of God and the implacable
power of nature, they also bear witness to the sloppiness and stupidity of
humankind. The huge death tolls in most earthquakes are not caused by the
quakes themselves. They are the result of the collapse of thousands of
buildings in the quake zone.
In 1923, modern buildings in Tokyo, including a hotel designed by Frank
Lloyd Wright, rode out the shock.
If a major quake, against all odds, were ever to hit Manhattan, the safest
places to be would probably be the Empire State Building, the Chrysler
Building or the World Trade Center. That is because buildings with modern
stressed steel frameworks move as units when the ground shakes in an
earthquake and do not collapse.
By contrast, the heavy death toll -- possibly as high as 45,000 -- in last
year's Golkar quake in northwest Turkey was due to the casual abandon with
which so many construction companies had run up apartment buildings,
ignoring existing building codes.
The colossal death toll in Tangshan 25 years ago was in large part because
planners had allowed coal-mine managers to extend their tunnels beneath the
city. When the quake came, dozens of blocks of apartment buildings literally
collapsed into the tunnels and were swallowed up by the earth. Their
inhabitants were instantly buried alive and entombed hundreds of feet below
the ground.
A similar fate seems to have befallen Ancient Egypt at the end of the
Middle Kingdom. The Ipuwer Papyrus, now housed in the Heritage Museum in St.
Petersburg, Russia, lamented, "The (royal) residence is overturned in a
minute....The towns are destroyed. Upper Egypt has become waste....All is
ruin."
These are sentiments with which the people of India's Gujarat region
suddenly became all too familiar over the past week.
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February 1, 2001, 15:48
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#93
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Local Time: 01:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA, USA
Posts: 1,053
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Oh, and here's another one.
Analysis: Giant quakes shook human history
Wednesday, 31 January 2001 9:11 (ET)
Analysis: Giant quakes shook human history
By MARTIN SIEFF, UPI Senior News Analyst
WASHINGTON, Jan. 31 (UPI) -- The death toll from the Gujarat earthquake in
India continues to climb, with fears that it may pass the 100,000 mark,
making it the worst natural disaster the world has seen in nearly 25 years.
The tragedy is a sobering reminder of the vulnerability of human society
against such cataclysmic events.
Throughout history, earthquakes and other natural disasters often have
been seen as the wrath of God or signs of divine displeasure on existing
governments. But they have been as good for religion as they have been
disruptive for the state.
The 1976 Tangshan quake in China, which killed 240,000 people, caused the
largest loss of life in more than 400 years of history. It was widely seen
at the time as an omen that the era of Mao Zedong was over after 28 years
and that a new epoch in Chinese history was about to begin. Sure enough,
within two years, paramount leader Deng Xiaoping would launch his
dramatically successful free-market reforms to enthusiastic popular support.
The Richter scale, on which quakes are measured, is arranged
logarithmically so that an increase in magnitude of one unit represents a
tenfold increase in earthquake size. So, a quake of magnitude 8 is 10,000
times more powerful than one of magnitude 4. The Tanghsan quake registered
7.8 on the Richter scale. By contrast, the Gujarat quake had a magnitude of
7.9.
If current estimates prove accurate, then last week's quake was by far the
worst India has experienced this century in terms of the casualties it
inflicted.
The two most destructive earthquakes in human history are believed to have
been the 1556 quake in Shansi Province, China, which killed around 830,000
people, and a medieval quake in Upper Egypt in 1201 that is estimated by
chroniclers at the time to have killed 1 million people.
The French archaeologist Claude Schaeffer, excavator of the Bronze Age
city of Ugarit in Syria, believed that enormous quakes thousands of years
ago periodically wrecked cities throughout the Near East, bringing to an end
the Early Bronze Age and later disrupting civilization repeatedly.
Schaeffer, who held the chair of Western Asian archaeology at the College
de France, documented his evidence in his 1948 book, "Stratigraphee Comparee
et Chronologie de l'Asie Occidentale (IIIe et IIe Millenaires)" -
("Comparative Stratigraphy and Chronology of Western Asia in the 3rd and 2nd
Millennia.")
A massive earthquake in Crete -- still a seismically sensitive zone -- is
believed by many archaeologists to have destroyed the high civilization of
Middle Bronze Age Crete. Half a millennium later, the Minoan civilization of
Crete was devastated again, this time by a volcanic explosion on the island
of Santorini, thought by many to have been the inspiration for the legend of
Atlantis.
The city of Troy, immortalized by Homer in his Iliad, was found by
archaeologists to have been destroyed by earthquake many times and
repeatedly rebuilt.
The most physically powerful earthquakes recorded this century registered
8.6 on the Richter scale and occurred in Kashmir in India in 1905, killing
19,000 people, and Valparaiso, Chile, in 1906, killing 1,500 people. The
contrast in casualties reflected the thin population in the Chilean quake
zone.
However, the most powerful earthquake ever believed to have occurred in
documented history occurred in the continental United States. It was the
1811 New Madrid, Mo., quake, believed to have touched 8.7 on the Richter
scale. It was so powerful, it radically changed the course of the
Mississippi River.
In those days, the region was lightly populated and so the Indian tribes
there were not exposed to death from collapsing buildings. But if a quake of
that magnitude were to occur in that region today, near St. Louis, hundreds
of thousands would die.
In 1923, Tokyo was destroyed by an earthquake that registered 8.3 on the
Richter scale. It is believed to have been the most severe earthquake to
strike a major city in recorded history. Estimates of the death toll vary
from 99,000 to 150,000. It was at least as destructive as the U.S.
firebombing of Tokyo in 1945. Some psychologists and anthropologists have
even theorized that the immense popularity of Godzilla and other monster
movies in Japan in the 1950s and 1960s was in some way a reaction to the
1923 quake and the 1945 fire bombing.
Earthquakes are testimony not only to the wrath of God and the implacable
power of nature, they also bear witness to the sloppiness and stupidity of
humankind. The huge death tolls in most earthquakes are not caused by the
quakes themselves. They are the result of the collapse of thousands of
buildings in the quake zone.
In 1923, modern buildings in Tokyo, including a hotel designed by Frank
Lloyd Wright, rode out the shock.
If a major quake, against all odds, were ever to hit Manhattan, the safest
places to be would probably be the Empire State Building, the Chrysler
Building or the World Trade Center. That is because buildings with modern
stressed steel frameworks move as units when the ground shakes in an
earthquake and do not collapse.
By contrast, the heavy death toll -- possibly as high as 45,000 -- in last
year's Golkar quake in northwest Turkey was due to the casual abandon with
which so many construction companies had run up apartment buildings,
ignoring existing building codes.
The colossal death toll in Tangshan 25 years ago was in large part because
planners had allowed coal-mine managers to extend their tunnels beneath the
city. When the quake came, dozens of blocks of apartment buildings literally
collapsed into the tunnels and were swallowed up by the earth. Their
inhabitants were instantly buried alive and entombed hundreds of feet below
the ground.
A similar fate seems to have befallen Ancient Egypt at the end of the
Middle Kingdom. The Ipuwer Papyrus, now housed in the Heritage Museum in St.
Petersburg, Russia, lamented, "The (royal) residence is overturned in a
minute....The towns are destroyed. Upper Egypt has become waste....All is
ruin."
These are sentiments with which the people of India's Gujarat region
suddenly became all too familiar over the past week.
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February 2, 2001, 00:13
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#94
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Chieftain
Local Time: 09:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 80
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I'm waiting to hear from Locutus. I sent him the files a while ago. I can't figure out the problem. I will probably try to modify the code so that the earthquakes only hit cities. For my purposes, a quake hitting a city every so many turns will be okay (if I can get that to work, doesn't seem like it will be difficult). I'd like to have it hit non-city areas but I've run out of ideas on how to get it working.
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February 2, 2001, 04:08
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#95
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Prince
Local Time: 20:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 684
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And my code is also not working, but I could rewrite it again properly, this time.
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February 2, 2001, 06:46
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#96
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Deity
Local Time: 11:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: De Hel van Enschede
Posts: 11,702
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Radical, I didn't reply to your email? Odd, I thought I had... Oh well, will look at it today then.
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February 2, 2001, 10:42
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#97
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Prince
Local Time: 09:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: home
Posts: 601
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RM - for non-city areas, I assume you want to destroy the tile improvements? How about, for each affected square (3x3 or 5x5 area around epicenter), you terraform the tile into itself, replacing plains with new plains, forest with new forest? Doing this would keep the terrain the same, but would remove all tile improvements.
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February 2, 2001, 15:22
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#98
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Chieftain
Local Time: 03:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Green Bay, WI USA
Posts: 81
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Wheathin,
When testing for the infamous event:cuttileimprovements bug I tried a number of workarounds to avoid using the event. One was using Terraform as you mentioned. Unfortunately I did not have the effect of removing the tileimprovements. I tried to terraform to a dead tile and then back to the right terrain. Again, no effect. I even used the event to turn a tile dead, then tried to terraform it back. This didn't seem to work at all either. It would kill the tile, but it would not terraform it back in the same turn. In order to get it to work I had to check for the cell owner, then use the cuttileimprovements event. Problem is that there are sometimes tile improvements on the map that are not owned by anyone anymore. A city gets destroyed but the tile improvements all stick behind. I haven't givin it much thought lately (I took a little break after the fustrating activision announcement).
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February 2, 2001, 22:01
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#99
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Chieftain
Local Time: 03:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Green Bay, WI USA
Posts: 81
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I've done some more playing with the quake stuff today. I found that just using CellOwner > 0 did not always prevent crashes in the game. I decided to abandon the cellowner portion of the script and add a function for checking if there are any improvements on the terrain. If the land did have improvements then I went ahead and did Event:CutImprovements. I have yet to crash running it like this. I could just be lucky though. I still need to test it more. To check for TileImprovements I used this:
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Code:
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int_f TileImpCheck(location_t tmpLoc) {
location_t tmpLoc2;
tmpLoc2 = tmpLoc;
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_ADVANCED_FARMS))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_ADVANCED_MINES))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_ADVANCED_UNDERSEA_MINES))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_AIR_BASES))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_AUTOMATED_FISHERIES))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_DRILLING_PLATFORM))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_FARMS))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_FISHERIES))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_FORTIFICATIONS))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_HYDROPONIC_FARMS))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_LISTENING_POSTS))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_MAGLEV))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_MEGA_MINES))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_MEGA_UNDERSEA_MINES))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_MINES))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_NATURE_PRESERVE))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_NETS))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_OUTLET_MALL))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_PORT))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_PROCESSING_TOWER))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_RADAR_STATIONS))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_RAILROAD))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_ROAD))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_SONAR_BUOYS))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_TRADING_POST))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_UNDERSEA_MINES))) { return 1; }
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, TerrainImprovementDB(TILEIMP_UNDERSEA_TUNNEL))) { return 1; }
return 0;
} |
Even easier would be using this (once I bother to figure out whether or not those Terraforming improvements are in the TileImprovementDB.)
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Code:
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int_f TileImpCheck(location_t tmpLoc) {
location_t tmpLoc2;
int_t i;
tmpLoc2 = tmpLoc;
for (i = 0; i < howevermanyareinthetileimpDB ; i = i + 1) {
if (TileHasImprovement(tmpLoc2, i)) {
return 1;
}
}
return 0
} |
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February 3, 2001, 00:34
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#100
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Chieftain
Local Time: 09:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Prince of the Barbarians
Posts: 0
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Another thing that is possible is that if a natural disaster hits an AI and you send money (disaster relief), you would get a big increase in diplomatic regards.
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History is written by the victor.
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February 3, 2001, 00:35
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#101
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Chieftain
Local Time: 09:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 80
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Locutus, I don't remember getting anything from you about this since I sent the files.
Jerk, the terraform stuff in the improvement db one of the reasons I stayed away from using it. The second was figuring out what number corresponds to what improvement. At least I thought I needed the numbers but it looks like I didn't after reviewing the long version of your code.
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February 3, 2001, 00:38
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#102
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Chieftain
Local Time: 09:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 80
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Great idea Alpha.
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February 3, 2001, 19:43
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#103
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Local Time: 01:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA, USA
Posts: 1,053
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I'm glad I made those posts a few days ago, it looks like I kick started this thread back to life.
I just came across an interesting statistic:
On any given year, there is an average of 2 quakes greater that 7.7 on the Richter scale, seventeen between 7.7 and 7.0, one hundred between 6.0 and 7.0, and 50 thousand between 3.0 and 6.0.
Of course most of these are in the oceans (sometimes leading to deadly tidal waves, most times not) or places far from significant human habitation. Some areas have tons more than others. I keep up on news about Indonesia pretty closely since I used to live there, and it seems like every other week there's a big earthquake there, usually in a remote place and thus not causing much damage.
For the purposes of this game, I'd say we should stick with quakes 7.7 and over. Even those rarely kill 100,000 people, the effect is more loss of buildings. Perhaps someone mathematically inclined can extrapolate from the above numbers how often a "super quake" (say, mid 8-ish or higher), comes along.
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February 4, 2001, 01:08
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#104
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Chieftain
Local Time: 09:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Prince of the Barbarians
Posts: 0
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it would be cool if we could somehow create fault lines and have the quakes concentrate there. I cant think of any large quake areas that arent near mountains or shorelines. Anyone know any different?
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History is written by the victor.
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February 4, 2001, 16:43
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#105
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Local Time: 01:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA, USA
Posts: 1,053
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Alpha,
I agree fault lines would be great. But pretty hard to do. That's gotten me thinking more about how to implement all this stuff. Howabout this, my ideal disaster setup.
Let's break disasters down into all their possible types:
Earthquake: these are more likely to appear on or near Hills (arguable, but let's say!). Mostly a loss of buildings in a city.
Underwater earthquake: these occur on or near Ocean Trench. Living underwater is pretty precarious- I'd say these could destroy whole cities by causing water to flood in in a major way. Causes a Tsunami for cities within a certain radius, on the coast. Some within that radius would be damaged, some not (since the local geography quirks - protected harbors and whatnot- might favor some). Effect of tsunami would be a loss of life and buildings, but neither too serious.
Volcano: occurs on or near Mountains. Much more damaging than earthquake, more loss of life.
Underwater volcano: occurs near underwater volcanoes. Causes a Tsunami for coastal cities within a certain radius.
Flood: same as tsunami, but only hits cities on river squares.
Drought: can hit anywhere, lasts several turns. Loss of life the longer it goes on, but no loss of buildings. Effects modified if you have Granaries or Food Silos, hopefully. Variable radius that can effect one city or a whole area.
Epidemic: can hit anywhere, great loss of life. Hopefully modified if city has Aquaduct, Sewer System and/or Hospital. Perhaps caused by barbarian Infector unit, so it can spread along trade routes?
Cataclysm: planet hit by large comet or meteor. A major catastrophe causing tremendous damage locally, triggering earthquakes, and a drought globally. Loss of life and buildings in affected cities. Still far, far short of what wiped out the dinosaurs though. Evidence shows this happens pretty frequently, we've just been lucky for a while.
Ocean cataclysm: the large comet or meteor lands on water. This causes Tsunami effect for nearby coastal cities. Earthquakes are triggered, hitting nearby underwater cities. A lot of water vapor is thrown into the atmosphere, greatly increasing the danger of flooding for a number of turns.
Catacylsms would come along about once every 500 years. The epicenter could be any square. If it was a water square, you get an ocean cataclysm instead.
Did I miss anything? Maybe fires? The effects of coastal and river terrain would have to be slightly boosted, or else people might not want to build cities there.
Here's one way I can imagine implementing these. Use the random function to determine the odds of any given disaster happening globally, each turn. So lets say, just for an example, an earthquake can happen once every twenty years, somehwere in the world. A tile is chosen randomly, then you see what kind of tile it is. If its a land type, determine distance to nearest Hill terrain. If ocean, distance to nearest Trench. If within the required distance, and there's a city near enough to be affected, have the earthquake. If within the required distance and no city, then the earthquake passes unnoticed (only give a message that a disaster occurs if it actually causes a damage, otherwise there'd be too many meaningless messages). If not within the required distance, roll the dice and see if the earthquake occurs outside its usual habitat. Odds are low that this will happen, though. If this fails, then pick another spot, and try again, until an earthquake happens, either noticed or unnoticed.
Repeat process, more or less, for each type. Note that I use years and not turns, because the frequency of disasters should be based on years. So as an example, early in the game you may have 1 turn for every 10 years, and there'd be a disaster every year on average. Later you have 1 turn for every year, you only get that disaster once every ten turns on average.
I can't really read SLIC well, so how close does this jibe with what's been written so far? Also, have people figured out a way to factor in buildings that would lessen the damage? If that idea works, maybe other disasters could have modifiers. For instance, cities with Research Labs have the science to give early warning to coming earthquakes and volcanoes. Cities can thus be temporarily evacuated, meaning only building damage occurs. Just an idea. And if nearest building to impending cataclysm had an ABM, maybe the comet could be deflected?
I like the above system, cos some places are more dangerous than others to start a city, but you can't really avoid the disasters. It would be silly to not build near Mountains or Hills, and thus have little mining ability. It also would be silly to not build near rivers and coastline, cos of good numbers there, plus (in Wes' mod) the Harbor building. Other disasters can't be avoided. So you just have to take your lumps. It probably would be smart to avoid building near Trenches and Ocean Volcanoes, though those could be extremely productive in compensation.
I also really like how some disasters cause loss of life, and others loss of buildings, instead of all having the same effect. Extra bonus: have disasters able to destroy wonders? Cos most ancient wonders were destroyed by natural disaster before they fell into disuse. There could be a problem of distinguishing between physical building wonders and abstract wonders though.
Also, what would happen if you get hit by a disaster, don't like it, and decide to go back one turn to just before the disaster hit? Would the disaster happen the exact same way after you've reloaded the game? I hope it would, so people wouldn't want to do that.
One last random thought: one could have absolute and relative effects, depending on what you want. For instance, a Tsunami could knock out two pop and two buildings. So if its a new city, it would get destroyed. An older and much bigger city, however, would be able to shrug off a Tsunami pretty easily, since most of the city would be more than a few blocks inland. An epidemic however, would naturally take a percentage of the population of a city.
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February 4, 2001, 17:12
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#106
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Deity
Local Time: 11:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: De Hel van Enschede
Posts: 11,702
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Well Radical, I had a look at your files but you sent me an obsolete version so I had to go with the stuff in this thread and fill in the blanks here and there. But my conclusion is unfortunately the same as yours: for some weird reason the local variable tmpCity seems to be behaving like a global variable. Before a value is assigned to it, it contains the value it had the turn before and (even weirder) if an invalid city is assigned to it, it will still contain this previous city. This is a very weird bug and I haven't got a clue as to what's causing it or how to solve it.
Harlan, saw your post but don't have time to read or answer it, I'll look at it tomorrow.
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February 5, 2001, 01:42
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#107
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Chieftain
Local Time: 09:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Prince of the Barbarians
Posts: 0
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You pretty much described in much greater detail what I originally had envisioned. I just didnt distinquish between land based and water centered events.
I would think things like "IMPROVE_BUILDING_CODE" would limit the damage from quakes and hospitals would limit plagues.
I personally prefer all the events be totally random that can hit any civ or empty area.
A drought alone wont kill people but should affect the food supply. If it lasts long ehough, it can cause starvation. Especially if you lower the # of turns that food buildings protect against famine.
So many of the tile improvements wouldnt really be affected. Farms and nets would survive pretty intact and so would strip mines. By the time the most advanced (tile or city) improvements come about, those improvements by default would be quake resistant.
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History is written by the victor.
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February 5, 2001, 02:43
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#108
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Local Time: 01:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA, USA
Posts: 1,053
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Alpha,
I'm a bit confused- you say "I personally prefer all the events be totally random that can hit any civ or empty area", but in your previous post you say: "it would be cool if we could somehow create fault lines and have the quakes concentrate there." Are these contradictory statements or am I missing something?
Also, the way you describe famine happening would be preferrable, but can SLIC do that? I was under the impression that SLIC has virtually no control over food numbers. I hope that's wrong though.
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February 5, 2001, 15:51
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#109
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Deity
Local Time: 11:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: De Hel van Enschede
Posts: 11,702
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Harlan, pretty much all you describe is possible, though it doesn't even come close to what has beeen coded so far. The code in this thread could well be used as a basis for writing the final version but as it is, it's all a bit too simplistic and mainly intended to see if principles work. Making buildings lessen the damage is actually fairly simple, the CityHasBuilding function can be used for it. Yes, disaster can destroy Wonders too if you want too, the type of wonder shouldn't be much of a problem (just means more code). The going-back-a-turn thing is a good point, someone will have to test for that, but if it turns out to be a problem I don't think there's much that can be done about it.
As I explained earlier in this thread (page 1 and/or 2), SLIC has indeed no control over food numbers, but it *does* have control over buildings, so in case of drought, a building Drought can be put into the city (that can't be sold of course) and that takes away food. This is the only solution that I know of for manipulating food/production numbers, but since you can only have 64 buildings in Improve.txt it has to be used sparsely. Examples of this can also be found earlier in this thread.
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February 5, 2001, 16:56
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#110
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Chieftain
Local Time: 03:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Green Bay, WI USA
Posts: 81
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Harlan,
While it CAN be done, I am not sure it will be very efficient to script. I am speaking of the part of your idea where it 'finds' a hill or trench. There is no built in function i am aware of that can do that. One would have to search through the nearby tiles one by one in search of a hill or trench. If you have a search area of 10 by 10 thats 100 tiles to check through. If it doesn't find a hill you have to pick a new random spot and do it all over again. Late in a game this might slow down the game quite a bit.
My idea would be to just pick a random tile and stick with it. Check what kind of tile it is, then base the disaster on the terrain type. If its plains and no hills (just check the surrounding 8 tiles) then make the disaster a 'Tornado' instead of an earthquake. If its mountain, then its a volcano... If its forrest then the disaster could be a forrest fire.
As for the go-back-a-turn cheat I don't know of any workaround to prevent that. If Random() is truely random then I would assume you could go back a turn to avoid the disaster. The only way around it would be to pick random spots in advance by so many turns. That way you would have to save manually every turn and go back a ways to get around getting hit.
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February 5, 2001, 16:58
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#111
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Chieftain
Local Time: 03:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Green Bay, WI USA
Posts: 81
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whoops, posted 3 times. Sorry 
[This message has been edited by Jerk (edited February 05, 2001).]
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February 5, 2001, 17:01
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#112
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Chieftain
Local Time: 03:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Green Bay, WI USA
Posts: 81
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whoops, posted 3 times. Sorry
[This message has been edited by Jerk (edited February 05, 2001).]
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February 5, 2001, 20:48
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#113
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Chieftain
Local Time: 09:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Prince of the Barbarians
Posts: 0
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Didnt mean to confuss you Harlan. What I was trying to say and the words werent coming to me, is that I wanted to make sure that these disasters did not only impact the human but also impact the other civs too. I like the idea of making tornados being that I've spent my entire life listening to tornado alarms. Never seen the actual spiral except in mini dust devil form, but have seen the starts of some and they aint pretty.
I was thinking about the fault line concept. What if at the beginning of the game, we save off 3 or 4 or more quakes areas based on geography, then 3 or 4 turns in advance, randomly pick one of these "faults" to experience the quake. By determining the fault lines only once at the beginning, it minimizes the the effect on game speed. By picking the location(s) 3 or 4 turns in advance, the player cant just reload the last turn.
loc_t FaultLine[6]; 6 fault lines (mountains/hills clusters)
loc_t TornadoAlley[4]; 4 tornado alleys (plains/grassland clusters)
loc_t HurricaneZone[4]; 4 hurricane/typhoon zones (coastal)
randomly pick a future turn and disaster type
randomly pick from the appropriate disaster array
randomly pick the epicater/eye say x # tiles from array location
HandleEvent(BeginTurn) pre
if year == disaster year
trigger disaster
Not great psuedocode here but hopefully you understand what I'm getting at. Could even save a strength factor for each array telling how often and severe that specific disaster is.
------------------
History is written by the victor.
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February 6, 2001, 08:31
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#114
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Deity
Local Time: 11:52
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: De Hel van Enschede
Posts: 11,702
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Jerk, I agree on the finding a hill thing, it's too slow to be useful but if you keep the search limited to a 2x2 or 3x3 area, it could still be done. But I like your option of giving every terrain type it's own disaster type(s) as well.
Here's an email discussion Harlan, AW and I had the past few hours (AW couln'd log in at Apolyton so he had to resort to email). '>>' is AW, '>' is Harlan and the rest is yours truly...
AW, you can change your email address in your profile, that should solve the problems you're having. Odd how the script even accepts mail adresses with spaces in them, those are by definition invalid...
>
> > Didnt mean to confuss you Harlan. What I was trying
> > to say and the words werent coming to me, is that I
> > wanted to make sure that these disasters did not
> > only impact the human but also impact the other civs
> > too. I like the idea of making tornados being that
> > I've spent my entire life listening to tornado
> > alarms. Never seen the actual spiral except in mini
> > dust devil form, but have seen the starts of some
> > and they aint pretty.
>
> I also agree the disasters should hit the AI. Is
> there anyone who doesn't want that?
>
> > I was thinking about the fault line concept. What
> > if at the beginning of the game, we save off 3 or 4
> > or more quakes areas based on geography, then 3 or 4
> > turns in advance, randomly pick one of these
> > "faults" to experience the quake. By determining
> > the fault lines only once at the beginning, it
> > minimizes the the effect on game speed. By picking
> > the location(s) 3 or 4 turns in advance, the player
> > cant just reload the last turn.
The turns in advance thing occured to me as well, but I first wanted to check if it was needed: when I restart a game I get exactly the same stuff from goody-huts, which are supposed to be random as well (and I presume restart and reload work the same), so random may not be all that random after all. Activision may have thought of this already and took it into account so it might not even be necessary to do this (although giving a warning in advance is a nice idea...).
> > loc_t FaultLine[6]; 6 fault lines
> > (mountains/hills clusters)
> > loc_t TornadoAlley[4]; 4 tornado alleys
> > (plains/grassland clusters)
> > loc_t HurricaneZone[4]; 4 hurricane/typhoon zones
> > (coastal)
> >
> > randomly pick a future turn and disaster type
> > randomly pick from the appropriate disaster array
> > randomly pick the epicater/eye say x # tiles from
> > array location
> >
> > HandleEvent(BeginTurn) pre
> > if year == disaster year
> > trigger disaster
> >
> > Not great psuedocode here but hopefully you
> > understand what I'm getting at. Could even save
> > a strength factor for each array telling how often
> > and severe that specific disaster is.
Yeah, nice but you'll have to analyse the entire map at the beginning of the game, which is a very resource intensive process and will take quite some time (esp. on gigantic maps or larger and on slow computers). Not sure if that's worth it (though we'd have to try to see how slow exactly it is).
> I really like the idea of determining the disaster
> will strike a few turns in advance to prevent people
> from reloading the turn. It could lead to a really
> cool feature: with some tech, you'd be actually told a
> few turns that a disaster would strike, giving you
> time to build buildings that would reduce the effects.
>
> As for the faultine concept, it has merit. I guess
> its up to whomever actually writes the code to decide
> best how to do it.
>
> I'm not big on tornadoes and hurricanes though. While
> I'm sure they're very terrifying to be in, their
> damage isn't that great in the greater scheme of
> things. You don't ever get something like half of
> Miami or St. Louis competely destroyed, or half the
> population killed off. Hurricanes might cause a bit
> more damage, I dunno, correct me if I'm wrong on
> either of these. I am a bit more intruiged with the
> possibility of hurricanes/storms that destroy ships.
> Certainly countless ships have gone down over the
> years due to storms.
>
> Harlan
>
>
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