New mod on horizon

Chris B · March 30, 2001, 19:12

Hi everyone, this is still tentative, but I couldn't hold myself back any longer I am working on a mod.
It Will Feature-
Bundling the Fixmod, Diplomod, Ctymod, And possibly City Expansion Mod.
- New terrain Stats
-Completely New Tech Tree (or not)
- Units- you name it, ive got it
- A few new buildings, wonders,
SLIC
- Each civ gets a Unique unit- in some cases 2.
- The most innovative feature- Each civ will start with a Leader Unit as well as settlers- should this unit die, the civ that killed it gets all the remaining cities and units
This will take a while- though ive proven to myself I can add units, building, wonders, and advances (finally)

Also- I really need feedback on several things
First- suggestions
SLIC- theseres a thread I have for that in CTP2: Creation
Also- I still dont have unique Units for Several civs (though I replaced the boringest ones like Nicaragua):
Australia (Dale

), Polish, Assyrians, Hebrews, Thai, Indonesians, Polynesians, Dutch, Sottish, French.
Any help here would also be nice.
Thanx.
-CB

usprez2020 · March 30, 2001, 20:11

I dunno about the leader dying and losing the whole civ. Perhaps you could create a disadvantage to the civ that lost it,i.e. a civil war, mass riots, only losing part of the civ, etc. It would be rather easy to only have to kill one unit to get an entire civ.

XMon · March 30, 2001, 21:37

Yeah, I agree with our future president. It would give the human player too much of an edge as he or she would just go after the leader as an easier win. Plus, historically, nations don't just give up if their leader is killed. But the idea is good if killing that unit has some sort of BIG effect (that maybe lasts until a new leader unit is built?).

Do you have unique sprites? I was going to make some up myself but experiments into this area were very disappointing. I did come with an idea, however, that for me would make sprite-making easier. Someone will probably say "it's too hard" but they're crazy. I have no artistic ability with my computer. Well, a little but not much. I can, however, draw quite well (esp if my drawing is going to be shrunk down to microsize). I was going to go the old fashioned way and draw a series of six inch figures of my sprite-to-be, animation style, and scan 'em and shrink 'em down. Seems to me that that would be easier than trying to learn some fancy 3D modelling software! You could draw just the torso in the five diff facings, make copies and just add the diff leg and arm positions for walking and fighting animation. Use colored pens or pencils. May sound too simple but it would obviously work. Problem is my scanner's just bit the dust. Gone. Kaput. My first one was going to be a ninja.

As far as the unique units for civs, you do know that there seems to be a limit in that the game can't handle over 200 units/sprites? You may want to check around but I believe that I have read that here.

Sounds great, good luck.

Chris B · March 30, 2001, 21:47

Ok Xmon, for now there will be only unique unit tgas. Mybe in the future if we ever map out all the age of kings units. I can do sprites, too. U may be rite about the king thing. I'll see what Locutus says.

Immortal Wombat · March 31, 2001, 08:48

quote:

Originally posted by Chris B on 03-30-2001 06:12 PM
- Units- you name it, ive got it

Oooh goody seige towers, battering rams, zeppelins, Murmakils

quote:

- Each civ gets a Unique unit- in some cases 2.

Bit unfair giving some two maybe, unless you do 1 land 1 sea, ala AoK vikings.

quote:

Also- I still dont have unique Units for Several civs Australia, Polish, Assyrians, Hebrews, Thai, Indonesians, Polynesians, Dutch, Sottish, French.
Any help here would also be nice.

Australia - Kangeroo warrior
Polish - ?
Assyria - ?
Hebrew - Elite Slinger (thanks Tom Davies

)
Thai - Elephants (unless thats Indian)
Indonesians - Some sort of War galley maybe
Polynesians - War Canoe, or maybe a settler that can cross water?
Dutch - Elite Engineer civilian unit, builds cities with harbours and city walls included
Scottish - Berserker (like AoK)
French - Nobleman (dies in 1760, and increases happiness by 7)

Maybe...

Sounds good though, Sprites are good.

alley_cat · April 2, 2001, 13:22

I don't want to sound harsh, but I think that creating such a mod is quite mean. I mean, this mod reminds me exactly (with a few little changes) the Med Pack, which means that when this Mod will be ready, people will need to chose between the Med pack and this Mod. Kind of reminds me the Explorer - Netscape battles. My idea is that you join forces (hehe

) with Wes and create together a great Mod. You did have some nice ideas, it just all looks just like the Med mod and I think it will be pretty stupid starting a project like that when the Med mod is nearing the final release.

------------------
Let people hear what they want to hear

Chris B · April 2, 2001, 21:18

Heres what I have to say so far:
Usprez- Your probably right about the leader thing. I have then a new idea. If your leader dies, you will be forced to remain in Anarcy untill you can build a new one.
Immmortal- I meant units that already existed- don't have the time or the patience to make new ones. Also, can't wait to see your crossbowman (if that's still in

)
Alley Cat: I've considered your medmod idea, but I dont think that would work because I have never played or even installed the new medmod and frankly disagree with many of the changes Wes has made (though I admire all the work he's done for us)

Other Work may come of this 2- I will soon post a ctp1 tga library and possibly a version with the slic disabled to give future moders a starting place.
-CB

Immortal Wombat · April 3, 2001, 07:18

quote:

Originally posted by Chris B on 04-02-2001 09:18 PM
Immmortal- I meant units that already existed- don't have the time or the patience to make new ones.

Ok, but there is: a slinger, an elephant, a nobleman, and the catamaran looks like a was canoe with sails IMHO. Anyway, thats not important, mostly I was just joking around.

quote:

Also, can't wait to see your crossbowman (if that's still in

)

Hmmmm... That may be a loooooooooooooooong term project

quote:

Originally posted by Alley_cat on 04-02-2001 13:22 PM
People will need to choose between the Med Pack and the mod

If both mods are installed in the scenario structure, then they're both playable

or (and I don't know much about this), but surely the intention of Modswapper was that you could switch between one mod and the next.

I think that the leader unit, and the unique units, the mod will be sufficiently different to make it worth playing in its own right.

Keep Modding Chris!

Ben

alley_cat · April 3, 2001, 08:28

quote:

If both mods are installed in the scenario structure, then they're both playable or (and I don't know much about this), but surely the intention of Modswapper was that you could switch between one mod and the next.

I know that, but it's like when you have Netscape and Explorer both installed you are usually going to use only one of them. This is the same in that case, when the two Mods all look VERY the same, In their aspects (more technologies, more units, some new features, more goves etc..).

------------------
Let people hear what they want to hear
[This message has been edited by alley_cat (edited April 03, 2001).]

Immortal Wombat · April 3, 2001, 10:30

Yeah I suppose usually you could only use one at once, but if the mods didn't look VERY the same, then they would both be different gaming experiences.
It really depends on how similar to the MedMod it ends up. If the tech trees are orientated to different attitudes, ie. more militay base, or oriental-based, or more cultural etc. and the unique units make the game significantly different, then it may be worthwhile.

hexagonian · April 3, 2001, 10:34

Ally Cat,

I do take exceptions to your comments...I for one would like to see players having the option of trying out different modifications and creating new setups...

I'm a great admirer of Wes and his work, having played his MedMod from CTP1. Once MedMod2 is done, I will be one of the many who will download it and take it for a test play. But most likely, I will use my own setup as my main one, even if his mod accomplishes more (which will most likely be the case, given that he has been able to assemble a good group of creators and SLIC writers). Why, you ask?? Because one the most enjoyable aspects of 'playing' is the work that goes on in the creation process. I get a great deal of satisfaction to be faced with a game balance problem and then figuring out how to resolve that issue myself.

Because of my work, I now understand how governments compare to one another, and I just have been able to figure out how to effectively control and use pollution as a happiness penalty. I had used a recommendation for using pollution in this way, but it was not until I implemented it in my own work that I saw and understood what was happening. It ended up that there were some AI problems in handling the change, but it also forced me to get into the guts of the files myself and figure my own workaround for it.

I had a bunch of ideas kicking around in my head which were going to be add-ons to his work once it was released (a big focus on the Ancient Age for one - which really could not be worked into his mod anyhow, since I wanted the bulk of the game to play in that time period, and Wes's Mod spans Ancient through Future).

I decided to create my own Mod, because of what I saw him do, and also because of statements he made concerning the ease of working with the files in CTP2. My Mod also has a bunch of new units/governments/wonders, but does that make it the same as Wes's work??? No, because each one of us has a different take on what we want to accomplish.

I do not expect my work to replace Wes's work. His reputation is deserved and earned through almost 2 years of altering CTP1 and CTP2 files. Do I expect everyone to take what I done and then throw MedMod2 on the scrap heap? Most likely it will be the other way around...

But like all mod makers, we do what we do, because first and foremost, we enjoy tinkering ourselves.

So Chris, go for it!!! I think you have some good ideas (though the game ending when you kill a leader needed to be changed).

Polish: some type of Cavalry unit. During the Late Middle Ages, Poland was actually one of the most powerful nations in the world, and their Cavalry units were the strength of their forces.

alley_cat · April 3, 2001, 13:47

quote:

I for one would like to see players having the option of trying out different modifications and creating new setups...

In that case I only meant that I don't want mods that do the same. But a variety in diffrent aspects is a welcomed thing
To the rest of what you wrote I 100% agree, considering the fact that I am too a moder working with Wes.

Chris:
for a hebrew unit, I would recommend some sort of automated rifle unit, because the main combat invention of the Israelis is the Uzi gun (I know, I'm from Israel

).

------------------
Let people hear what they want to hear
[This message has been edited by alley_cat (edited April 03, 2001).]

Dale · April 4, 2001, 02:41

Chris:
For Australia, and a unit that already exists (you can even use this for New Zealand as well) a unit of the following:
Name: ANZAC (actually stands for Australia and New Zealand Army Corp)
Base Unit: rifleman.
Benefit: Stronger attack
Deficit: Lower leadership

The benefit/deficit I chose is based on the history and reputation of the ANZACs in WWI and WWII. They had a reputation of being unruelly and disrespectful of leadership but highly couragous and efficient on the battlefield. History lookup: WWI - Gallipoli (Turkey) and Pointierres (France). WWII - Bornio, Battle of Britain and Kakoda trail (New Guinea).

BTW, ANZAC day is coming up on the 25th April.

------------------
Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

David Murray · April 4, 2001, 13:56

The MedMod has a rather annoying predilection towards peace and commerce--so I'm looking at Chris' mod with interest. I want lots of war units and a militaristic AI as well as all the tree-hugging AIs...would that be possible?

alley_cat · April 5, 2001, 06:44

Another idea:
German unit: some sort of Submarine. Hey, they "invented" (I know that they aren't really actually the ones who invented the submarine. It was Da-Vinci or Jul Vern) it.
And by the way, my impression is that at the moment, this new "mod" is mainly words, started by Chris saying that he is creating a Mod, and everybody talking about it. At the moment I see no results. What is going on?

------------------
Let people hear what they want to hear

Immortal Wombat · April 5, 2001, 06:54

quote:

Originally posted by alley_cat on 04-05-2001 06:44 AM
And by the way, my impression is that at the moment, this new "mod" is mainly words, started by Chris saying that he is creating a Mod, and everybody talking about it. At the moment I see no results. What is going on?

Pretty much what happens with most mods. Even the MedMod had threads full of ideas before it came into practise. It takes a long time to put together all the files needed to make a mod.

Immortal Wombat · April 5, 2001, 07:45

I just been cruising the CTP forums for ideas, and I found a cool way of implementing a leader unit.

You have a king unit to start, but using simple SLIC, its impossible to attack him.

Then put an elseif statement in, so that you can kill the king If you attack with an assasin unit. This unit will be:

a) available late enough that defenses can be put up in time
b) expensive
c) weak!! - attack of 10, defense of 2 ie. really easy to kill.
d) only build one at once

That way, he has to be stacked with other units, and attack the king's guard stack, and win.

Ben

Chris B · April 5, 2001, 22:00

quote:

Originally posted by alley_cat on 04-05-2001 06:44 AM
Another idea:
German unit: some sort of Submarine. Hey, they "invented" (I know that they aren't really actually the ones who invented the submarine. It was Da-Vinci or Jul Vern) it.
And by the way, my impression is that at the moment, this new "mod" is mainly words, started by Chris saying that he is creating a Mod, and everybody talking about it. At the moment I see no results. What is going on?

Alley Cat is it your duty to piss people off??. Its coming Its coming- I got sidetracked to make the CTP1 TGA's. I will post the Modders only version with all the units in a few days- the rest will take longer.
-CB

alley_cat · April 6, 2001, 08:30

WHAT?!?!?!
how can you say that?!
After I read hexagonian posts I understood his point, and started to give you ideas for the special unit for each tribe you talked about. And now you say I try to piss you off?! So I didn't talked the best I can, I still tried to help. some people just can't understand when people are nice to them, really!!!

You should read a bit more!

------------------
Let people hear what they want to hear
[This message has been edited by alley_cat (edited April 06, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by alley_cat (edited April 06, 2001).]

alley_cat · April 7, 2001, 00:33

Hmmm, for soem reason I'm not able to edit my message.
Anyway, I wanted to say that even if I wasn't talking very nicley, I din't mean to harm anybody. I was only trying to help or else I wouldnt have put the ideas for special units.
Chris, you don't have to take it so hard.

------------------
Let people hear what they want to hear

Immortal Wombat · May 8, 2001, 14:35

*BUMP*

How is it going Chris?

Fuzzball · May 9, 2001, 15:30

quote:

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat on 03-31-2001 07:48 AM
Australia - Kangeroo warrior

Sorry dude, it just sounds kinda....ummm...weak I think. Can't us Aussies have a Boxing Red Roo instead? Or perhaps a Great Grey Roo? Killer Koala doesn't really sound that intimidating at all, so I guess I should forget that one

Tassie Devils, Dingoes and our own native Aboriginals would make for great units too I think. The zulu spearmen could be used to represent an Aborigine I think. Also, in regards to Dale's Anzac suggestion. How about the Australian Lighthorse (riflemen on horseback)? They're probably the most renowned Aussie unit in war history I think. Anyways...just an idea

[This message has been edited by Fuzzball (edited May 09, 2001).]

Chris B · May 11, 2001, 10:44

Sorry dudes who are still loyal, but for the most part i've moved on from civ, at least untill Civ3 comes out

. If anyone really wants to see this project completed, I will gladly send the work i have done to them. Sorry.
-CB

Martin Gühmann · May 11, 2001, 18:25

I can understand you Chris, sometimes I wonder myself why I should be loyal to CTP2. It could be the best civ game ever if only Activision allowed its design team to finish this game. You can enjoy it, but there are many bugs like the savegame bug that gives you an extra turn, missing icons and diplomatic photos, no sea citie style graphics because of a bug, no sound when put an tile improvement on the map and only one construction style for the tile improvements and than the big things no hotseat and PBEM that CTP1 and SMAC keep still alive. Than for the diplomatic model there are more threats but not finished. Take a look into the *.ldl files and you will find more not finished stuff.

If there were no CTP1 and SMAC you would only noticed that the ai is bad but that can be changed by mods. Now I test my Citymod2 with some additional modifications to other text files. But the magic of this game is the next turn - just one turn and it will be hundret. Therefore I enjoyed playing. I lost a city and recaptured it. I never done it before. The AI tried to enslave my citiziens therefore I also start enslaving. I never saw the concept of slavery in Civ2. And then the border concept and and the growing city radii.

Unfortunatly the the increased timeslice for the AI lower the performance of my comruter, but that is not a problem of CTP2 it was also there in CTP1 and Civ2 four minutes just to wait for your next turn in Civ2 and than one hour for moving every of my two or three hundrets of settlers. Just a waste of time therefore I love PW.

I see a lot of potential in CTP2. If Activision would release the source code the game could be finished, but also without the source code the game is worth enough to not be given up therefore Chris I would like to take a look on your work.

-Martin

Chris B · May 11, 2001, 23:51

I hate to say it but all i really have so far is units.txt entries for most of the units and graphics. This is better than starting from scratch, but nothing not seen before. I was going to leave the slic off untill the end (a critical mistake).

Immortal Wombat · May 12, 2001, 00:52

Sorry to hear that Chris, but I can understand your feelings. CTP2 just sucks... I'd be happy to carry on with the mod if you want to send me the work you've done so far. We'll get some Med-Mod alternatives out.

Ben

EDIT: I'm still working on the King/Assasin code btw...

Its a little slow though.
[This message has been edited by Immortal Wombat (edited May 11, 2001).]

Immortal Wombat · May 12, 2001, 03:57

Are the graphics anything new ?
The elite units SLIC is easy enough to do if you could include a list of what civs get what units that would help speed the work along.