Civs included. Just the facts madam 2.

[tmarcl]

Originally posted by Pilfur
First let me say that I am Canadian, and I consider my country to be the best place in the world to live.

But a civilization III empire based on Canada?! Um, no. It is just silly. Canada was never a world military power, nor will it ever be. Its just a peaceful little ex-colony of england. It has no long history reaching back to ancient, or even medieval times (same for the Americans but they at least have had some big wars), and doesn't really have a great historic leader. Who will Canada's leader be? Pearson? Trudeau? And then who is the hero of Canada? Joseph Brant? Unique unit to Canada? Geese that poop on you? I don't think Canada will make the cut.

Well, from a citizen of the US, here's some reasons I think Canada *should* be in Civ 3.

1) Canada currently has one of the highest (or *the* highest, I'm not positive, though) standards of living in the world.

2) The UN has declared Canada to be the best nation as regards to quality of life.

3) They are the only country in the world to have successfully beat the crap out of the US (they burned down our capital-that *should* count for something.)

Marc

[Bereta_Eder]

Locutus,
I'll be happy to switch with you any time you feel tired or cannot attend. We can exchange. But We must not run this thread simultaneously because it all depends on having ONE man updating the list based on the evidence of the Apolytoners.

An advice: make sure you update the list after the posts get TOO many or the contact with the evidence will be lost to newcomers. Update even if you have no new evidence.

P.S. The detective's office is almost ready so prepare

[SerapisIV]

Outside Link: E3 Video of Civ3

Greeks are now 100% confirmed as shown in Firaxis' booth video from E3. Germans too. A portion of the video shows the diplomacy screen where Greeks and Germans are shown as having contact with the Roman player

[Locutus]

First off, that E3 movie is great! It does indeed confirm the inclusion of the Romans, the Germans and, more importantly, the Greeks with 100% certainty.

paiktis,
Heh, I was just kidding around, I don't mind doing this at all. You're absolutely right about this stuff needing to be moderated by one guy and one guy only, otherwise it gets a mess.

I try to post the summary everytime a new page starts and everytime when there's new info, seems enough to me. Then again, I just realised that with these new forums the number of posts per page can differ per user, so I guess it would be wise to post the summary a bit more often.

Well, I'm ready when you are As a kid I always wanted to be a spy, I guess P.I. is close enough


So far, based on our evidence, we know that:

Edit: once again, changes in red

100% CONFIRMED. These civs ARE in CIV 3:

1. AMERICANS - Leader (100% confirmed), city names, Unique Unit (F15)
2. GERMANS - Unique Unit (Panzer). Multiple text references, video reference
3. CHINESE - Leader (100% confirmed)
4. ROMANS - Leader, city name (capital), unique unit (Legion), video reference
5. FRENCH - Leader (100% confirmed), dialogue window of the French (Unique Unit: Musketeer?)
6. RUSSIANS - Unique Unit (MiG)
7. ZULUS - Unique Unit (Impi)
8. ENGLISH - Leader (100% confirmed)
9. EGYPTIANS - Leader (100% pharaoh ), definite text reference
10. INDIANS - Leader (100% confirmed)
11. MONGOLS (90%)- or JAPANESE?(10%) Leader * (see civ 18, Japanese)
12. IROQUOIS - Leader (100% Native American), city names, text references Unique Unit (75% Native American Unique Unit - 25% Military Leader) ** (see below)
13. GREEKS - City name (capital), possible Unique Unit (Hoplites) *** (see below), text referenc, video reference.

** There are two clues that this Native American civ in fact isn't the Iroquois: the houses behind the leader picture are small and round rather than long and square and the unit is a horseman while the Iroquois lived in woods and didn't rely heavily on horses. All other clues (text references, hair cut, city names) point to Iroquois.
*** In the screenshot Athens is building Hoplites. In greek «OPLITES» means "men-at-arms". This word is still in use today in Greece and it still means the same thing as it did in Ancient Greece.


EVIDENCE ABOUT OTHER CIVS (which means they could be in or not):

14. PERSIANS - City names (capital)
15. SPANISH - City name: Salamanca (which historically was once a Roman city)
16. BABYLONIANS - City name
17. AZTECS - City names


SUGGESTIONS BASED ON CLUES (weak clues but we report them):

18. JAPANESE (open for debate plz see the samurai(?) unit at http://viewer.fgnonline.com/fgn_medi...tp%3A%2F%2Fwww .fgnonline.com%2Fmedia%2Fpc%2Fnews%2Funits.jpg
* Also see http://www.infogrames-expo.com/screens/civ05b.jpg Gheghis Chan of the Mongols or a Japanese leader? (All votes except one say Ghengis).

19. VIKINGS (?) Very weak clues. See above mention URL for the boat: Viking Longboat?

20. ISRAELIS. Apolytoner Eli has pointed out that according to a israeli site, Israel is in.

21. CANADIANS. City name (Montreal). The city name is NOT on the map, but on a civ 3 window.

22. CONFEDERATES. As refered to in a swedish article, a Great Military Leader in Civ 3 could be Stonewell Jackson. Apolytoner Arator argued that this leader is impossible to be in the same civ as Lincoln (=100% confirmed leader of the Americans). Many other Apolytoners disagree though, arguing that he's more likely to be an American, among other reasons because (as joseph1944 pointed out) he served for the American Army before joinging the Confederates and was even asked by Lincoln to serve as Commanding General under him only weeks before South Carolina succeeded from the Union.


--------------------------------------------------------
The evidence is categorized as such:

Leader= We have a picture of the leader of the corresponting civ.
Unique Unit= We know that the particular unique unit belongs to the corresponding civ
Text reference= The civ has been mentioned by Firaxis in their web site or in interviews by their CEO
Video reference= The civ was seen in Firaxis demo movie from E3.
City names= The names of cities that clearly belong to the corresponding civ are included in scrrenshots of the game
All other clues= All other clues are reported next to the civ name.

-------------------------CIV FACTS-----------------------

+ Firaxis said the made NO official announcement regarding the number of civs that may or may not be included in the game.
+ In a Gamespot article its says that civs will be 16.
+ An israeli site says that civs will be 16
+ In an IGN preview it says that there will be 16 civs.

--------------------------POINTERS-------------------------

The city names in the screen shots can be from an extra city names list or could have been arbitrarily written be members of Firaxis. So city names in screenshots doesn't guarantee that a civ will be in. Examples: Kerplakistan & Huntsville, possibly others.

I may have a answer for the City of Montreal.
In 1535, Jacques Cartier of France became the first European explorer to reach the site that is now Montreal. Cartier climbed to the top of the mountain and named it Mont Real (Mount Royal). The first permanent settlement on the site was established in 1642. That year, Paul de Chomedey, Sieur de Maisonneuve a former French Army Officer-brought a small group of Roman Catholic missionaries to the island from France. The settlement was first called Ville-Marie (Mary's City) in honor of the Virgin Mary. But by the early 1700's it had become identified with the mountain and was called Montreal.

So IMO Montreal may very well be a French city and not Canadian for the sake of this game.

[Bereta_Eder]

Can I say I'm happy about the greeks
It's one thing knowing it and another thing knowing it

I still fear to start the monstrous download of the movie but I trust you

They are the only country in the world to have successfully beat the crap out of the US (they burned down our capital-that *should* count for something.)

It was the British army, under General Robert Ross was escorted by a fleet to Chesapeake Bay, scattered the United State troops at the Battle of Bladensburg, occupied Washington, DC and burned the Capitol.

Remember Canada was British until the 1900's.

The U.S. won some of the battle in the War of 1812 but also lost a lot of the battles. It is also funny that New England did not want war, but the south and western member of Congress did. Also remember that many people in New England remained loyal to England even after the Revolutionary war with England.

[granite]

I don't know if it's too late for suggestions/requests, but I personally would like to see some of really ancient civilizations. For instance the Assyrians or even Sumerians. The Celtics and Arabians would be interesting too. Something like that. I like the more arcane civs, I guess. The Babylonians usually suffice though.

[Andreiguy]

1) Canada currently has one of the highest (or *the* highest, I'm not positive, though) standards of living in the world.

Switzerland has the highest standard of living in the world, followed by Lichtenshtein (sorry if I spelled that wrong!), Luxembourg, the US, Canada, and so on. So you're right, but it's not THE highest.

[Locutus]

joseph,

With your Montreal theory, New York would be a Dutch city, LA a Spanish one and Washington English. This seems unlikely to me but we'll see.


So far, based on our evidence, we know that (no changes):

100% CONFIRMED. These civs ARE in CIV 3:

1. AMERICANS - Leader (100% confirmed), city names, Unique Unit (F15)
2. GERMANS - Unique Unit (Panzer). Multiple text references, video reference
3. CHINESE - Leader (100% confirmed)
4. ROMANS - Leader, city name (capital), unique unit (Legion), video reference
5. FRENCH - Leader (100% confirmed), dialogue window of the French (Unique Unit: Musketeer?)
6. RUSSIANS - Unique Unit (MiG)
7. ZULUS - Unique Unit (Impi)
8. ENGLISH - Leader (100% confirmed)
9. EGYPTIANS - Leader (100% pharaoh ), definite text reference
10. INDIANS - Leader (100% confirmed)
11. MONGOLS (90%)- or JAPANESE?(10%) Leader * (see civ 18, Japanese)
12. IROQUOIS - Leader (100% Native American), city names, text references Unique Unit (75% Native American Unique Unit - 25% Military Leader) ** (see below)
13. GREEKS - City name (capital), possible Unique Unit (Hoplites) *** (see below), text referenc, video reference.

** There are two clues that this Native American civ in fact isn't the Iroquois: the houses behind the leader picture are small and round rather than long and square and the unit is a horseman while the Iroquois lived in woods and didn't rely heavily on horses. All other clues (text references, hair cut, city names) point to Iroquois.
*** In the screenshot Athens is building Hoplites. In greek «OPLITES» means "men-at-arms". This word is still in use today in Greece and it still means the same thing as it did in Ancient Greece.


EVIDENCE ABOUT OTHER CIVS (which means they could be in or not):

14. PERSIANS - City names (capital)
15. SPANISH - City name: Salamanca (which historically was once a Roman city)
16. BABYLONIANS - City name
17. AZTECS - City names


SUGGESTIONS BASED ON CLUES (weak clues but we report them):

18. JAPANESE (open for debate plz see the samurai(?) unit at http://viewer.fgnonline.com/fgn_medi...tp%3A%2F%2Fwww .fgnonline.com%2Fmedia%2Fpc%2Fnews%2Funits.jpg
* Also see http://www.infogrames-expo.com/screens/civ05b.jpg Gheghis Chan of the Mongols or a Japanese leader? (All votes except one say Ghengis).

19. VIKINGS (?) Very weak clues. See above mention URL for the boat: Viking Longboat?

20. ISRAELIS. Apolytoner Eli has pointed out that according to a israeli site, Israel is in.

21. CANADIANS. City name (Montreal). The city name is NOT on the map, but on a civ 3 window.

22. CONFEDERATES. As refered to in a swedish article, a Great Military Leader in Civ 3 could be Stonewell Jackson. Apolytoner Arator argued that this leader is impossible to be in the same civ as Lincoln (=100% confirmed leader of the Americans). Many other Apolytoners disagree though, arguing that he's more likely to be an American, among other reasons because (as joseph1944 pointed out) he served for the American Army before joinging the Confederates and was even asked by Lincoln to serve as Commanding General under him only weeks before South Carolina succeeded from the Union.


--------------------------------------------------------
The evidence is categorized as such:

Leader= We have a picture of the leader of the corresponting civ.
Unique Unit= We know that the particular unique unit belongs to the corresponding civ
Text reference= The civ has been mentioned by Firaxis in their web site or in interviews by their CEO
Video reference= The civ was seen in Firaxis demo movie from E3.
City names= The names of cities that clearly belong to the corresponding civ are included in scrrenshots of the game
All other clues= All other clues are reported next to the civ name.

-------------------------CIV FACTS-----------------------

+ Firaxis said the made NO official announcement regarding the number of civs that may or may not be included in the game.
+ In a Gamespot article its says that civs will be 16.
+ An israeli site says that civs will be 16
+ In an IGN preview it says that there will be 16 civs.

--------------------------POINTERS-------------------------

The city names in the screen shots can be from an extra city names list or could have been arbitrarily written be members of Firaxis. So city names in screenshots doesn't guarantee that a civ will be in. Examples: Kerplakistan & Huntsville, possibly others.

[Geoff the Medio]

Originally posted by Andreiguy
Switzerland has the highest standard of living in the world, followed by Lichtenshtein (sorry if I spelled that wrong!), Luxembourg, the US, Canada, and so on. So you're right, but it's not THE highest.

Standard of living calculated how? The UN has repeatedly called Canada the best place to live (though I don't know if it is the current choice or not...) Other countries have higher average earnings per capita than Canada, however there is more to life than money...

[KrazyHorse]

Joseph1944, Canada became independent in 1867. Also, the burning of Washington wasn't the only British victory in the war of 1812. There were numerous actions on the Great Lakes won by home-grown Canuck ships, and as for the land battle, before Britain could afford to send reinforcements (they were fighting Napoleon at the time) an American invasion was repulsed and large potions of the Ohio Valley conquered, and subsequently given back in the peace treaty.

This being said, I don't see the possibility of a Canadian civ being included in the game. First off, Canadian culture IS a unique blend of British, French and American culture, but as a civilization it must be considered (in view of such a long-sighted historical game) as an offshoot rather than an individual. Even American civilization barely has the history to back it up as independent. If the US were to fall today, it would be looked on a thousand years from now as the prodigal son of Britain. The difference between Britain and the US, in a lot of respects, is less than the difference between Spain and Portugal. Both Spain and Portugal were the superpowers of the fifteenth and early sixteenth centuries, but I don't see anyone arguing for Portuguese inclusion. Also, doesn't anyone remember that Toronto was part of the British city list in CivII? There is no reason to believe that Montreal will be anything other than a French city, as it was from 1642 'til the English grabbed it a century or so later.

[KrazyHorse]

I saw this after my last post
Portugal!!!

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq
To clarify, we were not discussing a leader picture, but the graphic posted by
vgraph on 23-05-2001 at 08:45.
The horseman with the feathered headress. He's too small to even see hair, so I suspect you are describing another graphic.

It is vgriph

[bagdar]

We seem to have the Phonecians

www.game-revolution.com/previews/featured/pc/civilization_3.htm

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by Gramphos
It is vgriph

Now it is Gramphos...
I'm making myself confused .

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by bagdar
We seem to have the Phonecians

www.game-revolution.com/previews/featured/pc/civilization_3.htm

I think it should be added to the "HIGH PROPABILITY." section.

[Biddles]

Originally posted by bagdar

I always say that I prefer the Civ II set, but if they decide to include us as a civ; either Ataturk, Mehmet II or Suleiman would be the best choice. I guess CTP had Osman I, who was only the chieftain of the tribe which grew up into the Ottoman Empire, so that wasn't a good choice. On the other hand, what would be the special unit for the Turks? The Janissaries seem to be the best choice, but what kind of a standard-unit transformation would that be? Mad-kind-of-musketeer-horseman-swordsman-cannoneer-who-would-not-stop-revolting-until-it-screws-up-the-empire? Well, anyway, nobody seems to be excited about the Turks in Civ anyway, as the poll also showed , even I'm not excited!

I really hope the turks are in civ3, preferably as the ottomans though. If you were going to include them their special unit would just HAVE to be some kinda cannon. As for a leader, before they were dumped from civ1 Suleiman was planned.

[Jer8m8]

Originally posted by tmarcl


3) They are the only country in the world to have successfully beat the crap out of the US (they burned down our capital-that *should* count for something.)

Yes, the American invasion into Canada back fired, but it was British troops that burned the capital

[Gramphos]

Locutus, I think it's time for a list update. As you don't want anyone but you to do it I'll not do it. Anyway I think this thread turns into a non fact discussion right now, and I think that the posters needs a reminder of what this thread is for. It is ten days since your last update and as we have a new civ, not only new evidence I think that an update would come in handy.

[Locutus]

Sorry for not updating in a while guys, I've been a bit busy with real-life stuff. I should have let you know and ask someone else to take over for the time being but I didn't expect it would take this long.

Gramphos, adding a phoenicians with high probability based on a single text reference from a preview? I don't think so. We never heard anything about phoenicans before so it's quite possible the author confused the Babylons/Persians/Carthagians for them or something like that.

So far, based on our evidence, we know that (as an extra touch I added the names of the leaders too as far as we know, let me know if I overlooked any):

Edit: Nevermind.

Edit2: look at the screenshots Snapcase posted today, I didn't see this earlier but on two of them you can clearly see a picture of Alexander the Great (I know it's Alexander 'cause the text underneath the photo uses his name): http://apolyton.net/civ3/images/view.../civ3e3p18.jpg and http://apolyton.net/civ3/images/view...civ3e3p19.jpg.

Edit3: Added Joan of Arc, URL to Egyptian Leader

100% CONFIRMED. These civs ARE in CIV 3:

1. AMERICANS - Leader (Abraham Lincoln; 100% confirmed), city names, Unique Unit (F15)
2. GERMANS - Unique Unit (Panzer). Multiple text references, video reference
3. CHINESE - Leader (Mao Zedong; 100% confirmed)
4. ROMANS - Leader (C. Julius Ceasar, city name (capital), unique unit (Legion), video reference
5. FRENCH - Leader (Joan of Arc(?); 100% confirmed), dialogue window of the French (Unique Unit: Musketeer?)
6. RUSSIANS - Unique Unit (MiG)
7. ZULUS - Unique Unit (Impi)
8. ENGLISH - Leader (Elisabeth I; 100% confirmed)
9. EGYPTIANS - Leader (100% pharaoh, does anyone know who this is?), definite text reference
10. INDIANS - Leader (Mahatma Ghandi; 100% confirmed)
11. MONGOLS (90%)- or JAPANESE?(10%) Leader * (see civ 18, Japanese)
12. IROQUOIS - Leader (100% Native American), city names, text references Unique Unit (75% Native American Unique Unit - 25% Military Leader) ** (see below)
13. GREEKS - Leader (Alexander the Great; City name (capital), possible Unique Unit (Hoplites) *** (see below), text referenc, video reference.

** There are two clues that this Native American civ in fact isn't the Iroquois: the houses behind the leader picture are small and round rather than long and square and the unit is a horseman while the Iroquois lived in woods and didn't rely heavily on horses. All other clues (text references, hair cut, city names) point to Iroquois.
*** In the screenshot Athens is building Hoplites. In greek «OPLITES» means "men-at-arms". This word is still in use today in Greece and it still means the same thing as it did in Ancient Greece.


EVIDENCE ABOUT OTHER CIVS (which means they could be in or not):

14. PERSIANS - City names (capital)
15. SPANISH - City name: Salamanca (which historically was once a Roman city)
16. BABYLONIANS - City name
17. AZTECS - City names


SUGGESTIONS BASED ON CLUES (weak clues but we report them):

18. JAPANESE (open for debate plz see the samurai(?) unit at http://viewer.fgnonline.com/fgn_medi...tp%3A%2F%2Fwww .fgnonline.com%2Fmedia%2Fpc%2Fnews%2Funits.jpg
* Also see http://www.infogrames-expo.com/screens/civ05b.jpg Gheghis Chan of the Mongols or a Japanese leader? (All votes except one say Ghengis).

19. VIKINGS (?) Very weak clues. See above mention URL for the boat: Viking Longboat?

20. ISRAELIS. Apolytoner Eli has pointed out that according to a israeli site, Israel is in.

21. CANADIANS. City name (Montreal). The city name is NOT on the map, but on a civ 3 window.

22. CONFEDERATES. As refered to in a swedish article, a Great Military Leader in Civ 3 could be Stonewell Jackson. Apolytoner Arator argued that this leader is impossible to be in the same civ as Lincoln (=100% confirmed leader of the Americans). Many other Apolytoners disagree though, arguing that he's more likely to be an American, among other reasons because (as joseph1944 pointed out) he served for the American Army before joinging the Confederates and was even asked by Lincoln to serve as Commanding General under him only weeks before South Carolina succeeded from the Union.

23. PHOENICIANS. Based on a single text reference in a preview.


--------------------------------------------------------
The evidence is categorized as such:

Leader= We have a picture of the leader of the corresponting civ.
Unique Unit= We know that the particular unique unit belongs to the corresponding civ
Text reference= The civ has been mentioned by Firaxis in their web site or in interviews by their CEO
Video reference= The civ was seen in Firaxis demo movie from E3.
City names= The names of cities that clearly belong to the corresponding civ are included in scrrenshots of the game
All other clues= All other clues are reported next to the civ name.

-------------------------CIV FACTS-----------------------

+ Firaxis said the made NO official announcement regarding the number of civs that may or may not be included in the game.
+ In a Gamespot article its says that civs will be 16.
+ An israeli site says that civs will be 16
+ In an IGN preview it says that there will be 16 civs.

--------------------------POINTERS-------------------------

The city names in the screen shots can be from an extra city names list or could have been arbitrarily written be members of Firaxis. So city names in screenshots doesn't guarantee that a civ will be in. Examples: Kerplakistan & Huntsville, possibly others.

[Juggernaut]

It would be a shame not to include the Vikings. Scandinavia is such a strong market. Lotsa geeks in other words.

And I´m almost sure it´s a Viking longboat and not a trireme.

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by Locutus
Gramphos, adding a phoenicians with high probability based on a single text reference from a preview? I don't think so. We never heard anything about phoenicans before so it's quite possible the author confused the Babylons/Persians/Carthagians for them or something like that.

Sorry, I thought that, it was more worth then a city name, but you may be right in that the author might have misunderstood it. Anyway, Piaktis added the Greeks to that section after he had seen a unitname and a cityname. A textreference isn't what I call a clue. It's evidence.

[Stefu]

I don't think that this has been mentioned yet, butthis screenshot shows city named Halicarnassos. My memory's shaky - might that be Greek or Persian city?

I think that, based on this screenshot, Aztecs are pretty definitely in.

This here screenshot has city name "Bactra". Chalk more points for Persians. I think that there has been just one city as evidence of civ being in, then it might be 'placeholder' or barbarian city, but if there are two, then civ has good chances of being in. Also, note that the city has distinct color.

This might be going for screenshots too early, but isn't Nippur a Mongol city?

[ancient]

Originally posted by Andreiguy


Switzerland has the highest standard of living in the world, followed by Lichtenshtein (sorry if I spelled that wrong!), Luxembourg, the US, Canada, and so on. So you're right, but it's not THE highest.

what about vatican city, kuwait amsterdam, and canada? arent they all pretty high up there too?
and just because the nation currently has a high economy that doesnt mean it should be in civ

[Locutus]

Gramphos,
If it had been a *FIRAXIS* text-refence than that would indeed have been a very strong clue but a preview could be wrong. According to Eli the Isreali were mentioned in a preview too but it seems unlikely to me that they'll be in. You'd be surprised to know how far off some previews and even reviews often are. Just read some of the CtP(2) (p)reviews if you need evidence.

Stefu,
Halicarnassus is a Greek city, though IIRC it was both 'occupied' by and allied to the Persians for a while (but that doesn't make it Persian of course, the Romans 'occupied' it for certuries as well).

Those Aztec city names (and IIRC one or two other city names in other screenshots) make it likely for the Aztecs to be a civ but it's not enough evidence in itself. I agree that it's unlikely that the Aztecs won't be in but I'm not ready yet to claim it's 100% certain either. The same goes for the Persians: Persepolis (seen in another screenshot) and Bactra alone don't necessarily mean the Persians are in, though it's fairly likely.

Nippur is an Sumerian city in Mesopotamia, making it part of the Babylonian civ (at least in Civ1 and IIRC Civ2 as well).

Ancient,
Since when is Amsterdam a country? They'd wish (and so would I, at times)!

[Imran Siddiqui]

With your Montreal theory, New York would be a Dutch city, LA a Spanish one and Washington English. This seems unlikely to me but we'll see.

Well, New York was refered to as New Amsterdam under the Dutch, LA was a Spanish outpost (but not a major city), and Washington wasn't created until after the revolution.

Montreal could be a French Civ simply because of the too many cities syndrome. You can only have so many city names from the nation of France to put in civ. You need some other city names in case, the player makes a whole Hell of a lot of cities.

[Gangerolf]

Originally posted by Locutus
9. EGYPTIANS - Leader (100% pharaoh, does anyone know who this is?), definite text reference

It looks like a woman. My guess is Kleopatra. She's awfully dark-skinned for an Egyptian though.

[Nadexander]

Check out this screenshot:

http://apolyton.net/civ3/images/view.../civ3e3p18.jpg

The word "Greece" is clearly legible below the leaders head.
Looks like my favorite civ is in!

-Nadexander

[Locutus]

Imran,
You're right about those cities, probably not the best possible examples but you get the idea. In case of 'small' civs like the Iroquois or the Babylons I can certainly understand if Firaxis would feel a need to use colonies or other indirectly related city-names but for France? I once made a list of French city names for CtP and came up with well over 200 cities (I'm afraid I don't have the full list anymore or I'd post it), no need for colonies or anything, France itself has more than enough cities and towns with an interesting history. It's true that it's a possibility that Montreal is a French reserve-city but that's no reason to rule out the Canadians as a possibility. Yes, I agree it's unlikely but a clue is a clue.

Gangerolf,
Hmm, I never quite thought of it as a women but now you mention it, you could be right. It seems unlikely that it would be Cleopatra though, she wasn't a Negroid (I think it's safe to say that the person in the screenshot is a Negroid). The conventional view of her is as a beautiful Asian-looking woman while recent reports indicate that she might have been short, fat and ugly - but still Asian-looking.
Could it be Nefertiti? I'm not sure if she was a Negroid but IIRC she was darker than the 'average' Egyptian. Quite frankly I can't come up with any other (famous) Negroid Egyptian leaders (yes, there were at least a couple of Negroid Egyptian pharaohs, in case anyone didn't know, the whole 25th dynasty was Nubian) and it would be odd if Firaxis has picked some obscure leader.

Nadexander,

You silly! I just used the same screenshot a few posts above not just to show the Greeks were in (we already new that from other evidence) but also to show that Alexander the Great was their leader!

Edit: added update (no changes):

100% CONFIRMED. These civs ARE in CIV 3:

1. AMERICANS - Leader (Abraham Lincoln; 100% confirmed), city names, Unique Unit (F15)
2. GERMANS - Unique Unit (Panzer). Multiple text references, video reference
3. CHINESE - Leader (Mao Zedong; 100% confirmed)
4. ROMANS - Leader (C. Julius Ceasar, city name (capital), unique unit (Legion), video reference
5. FRENCH - Leader (Joan of Arc(?); 100% confirmed), dialogue window of the French (Unique Unit: Musketeer?)
6. RUSSIANS - Unique Unit (MiG)
7. ZULUS - Unique Unit (Impi)
8. ENGLISH - Leader (Elisabeth I; 100% confirmed)
9. EGYPTIANS - Leader (100% pharaoh, does anyone know who this is?), definite text reference
10. INDIANS - Leader (Mahatma Ghandi; 100% confirmed)
11. MONGOLS (90%)- or JAPANESE?(10%) Leader * (see civ 18, Japanese)
12. IROQUOIS - Leader (100% Native American, any ideas on who? Hiawatha?), city names, text references Unique Unit (75% Native American Unique Unit - 25% Military Leader) ** (see below)
13. GREEKS - Leader (Alexander the Great; City name (capital), possible Unique Unit (Hoplites) *** (see below), text referenc, video reference.

** There are two clues that this Native American civ in fact isn't the Iroquois: the houses behind the leader picture are small and round rather than long and square and the unit is a horseman while the Iroquois lived in woods and didn't rely heavily on horses. All other clues (text references, hair cut, city names) point to Iroquois.
*** In the screenshot Athens is building Hoplites. In greek «OPLITES» means "men-at-arms". This word is still in use today in Greece and it still means the same thing as it did in Ancient Greece.


EVIDENCE ABOUT OTHER CIVS (which means they could be in or not):

14. PERSIANS - City names (capital)
15. SPANISH - City name: Salamanca (which historically was once a Roman city)
16. BABYLONIANS - City name
17. AZTECS - City names


SUGGESTIONS BASED ON CLUES (weak clues but we report them):

18. JAPANESE (open for debate plz see the samurai(?) unit at http://viewer.fgnonline.com/fgn_medi...tp%3A%2F%2Fwww .fgnonline.com%2Fmedia%2Fpc%2Fnews%2Funits.jpg
* Also see http://www.infogrames-expo.com/screens/civ05b.jpg Gheghis Chan of the Mongols or a Japanese leader? (All votes except one say Ghengis).

19. VIKINGS (?) Very weak clues. See above mention URL for the boat: Viking Longboat?

20. ISRAELIS. Apolytoner Eli has pointed out that according to a israeli site, Israel is in.

21. CANADIANS. City name (Montreal). The city name is NOT on the map, but on a civ 3 window.

22. CONFEDERATES. As refered to in a swedish article, a Great Military Leader in Civ 3 could be Stonewell Jackson. Apolytoner Arator argued that this leader is impossible to be in the same civ as Lincoln (=100% confirmed leader of the Americans). Many other Apolytoners disagree though, arguing that he's more likely to be an American, among other reasons because (as joseph1944 pointed out) he served for the American Army before joinging the Confederates and was even asked by Lincoln to serve as Commanding General under him only weeks before South Carolina succeeded from the Union.

23. PHOENICIANS. Based on a single text reference in a preview.


--------------------------------------------------------
The evidence is categorized as such:

Leader= We have a picture of the leader of the corresponting civ.
Unique Unit= We know that the particular unique unit belongs to the corresponding civ
Text reference= The civ has been mentioned by Firaxis in their web site or in interviews by their CEO
Video reference= The civ was seen in Firaxis demo movie from E3.
City names= The names of cities that clearly belong to the corresponding civ are included in scrrenshots of the game
All other clues= All other clues are reported next to the civ name.

-------------------------CIV FACTS-----------------------

+ Firaxis said the made NO official announcement regarding the number of civs that may or may not be included in the game.
+ In a Gamespot article its says that civs will be 16.
+ An israeli site says that civs will be 16
+ In an IGN preview it says that there will be 16 civs.

--------------------------POINTERS-------------------------

The city names in the screen shots can be from an extra city names list or could have been arbitrarily written be members of Firaxis. So city names in screenshots doesn't guarantee that a civ will be in. Examples: Kerplakistan & Huntsville, possibly others.