Strategic Bombing?

[Sortub]

This is perhaps one of those areas where Civ II could always be a little more "realistic," but the history of the twentieth century is rife with instances of bombing "civilian" targets for "military" purposes. See Dresden, Baghdad, Belgrade for some examples.

Anyhow, it seems like, instead of getting that patronizing message admonishing you "only land units may occupy enemy cities," after military units are cleared out, bombers -- and cruise missles, for that matter -- should have the option of selecting a target to bomb for one, as spies and diplomats have for sabotage. There could be a fairly high chance of destroying the enemy installation at the cost of one movement point. Just speculating here, but perhaps an SAM system could forestall such attacks.

Whether wonders could be destroyed in such a fashion is another matter; perhaps the chance could be lesser of destroying their functionality in such an attack.

And while I'm on the subject, do the "Stealth" bombers and fighters in the original version seem to have little advantage over the regular fighter and bomber units? The latest HiRes modpack addresses this issue. If they don't already, perhaps the Stealh units could have "submarine" cloaking procedures.

Any thoughts?

[Case]

Assigning the submarine flag to units makes them hard to spot, but they can only attack naval units at sea. Anyway, the purpose of stealth is to make it easier for aircraft to enter hostile air space. In a turn based game this obviously isn't an issue as the AI can't do much to block your movements. To simulate stealth aircraft push up the attack and defence values of aircraft units, and maybe give the the 2x defences vs air advantage.

[Venger]

quote: Originally posted by Sortub on 05-13-2000 12:36 AM This is perhaps one of those areas where Civ II could always be a little more "realistic," but the history of the twentieth century is rife with instances of bombing "civilian" targets for "military" purposes. See Dresden, Baghdad, Belgrade for some examples. Anyhow, it seems like, instead of getting that patronizing message admonishing you "only land units may occupy enemy cities," after military units are cleared out, bombers -- and cruise missles, for that matter -- should have the option of selecting a target to bomb for one, as spies and diplomats have for sabotage. There could be a fairly high chance of destroying the enemy installation at the cost of one movement point. Just speculating here, but perhaps an SAM system could forestall such attacks.

I somewhat like the concept, the SAM rather than forestall should reduce the likelihood of an attack. More realistic, though, is the possible destruction of a cities improvements (palace and wonders excluded) with every successful enemy attack, i.e. 15%. This was the case I believe in Civ1, but I am unsure it works in Civ2. Taking a city does lose half of it's improvements, but that seems a half-assed way to do it - the destruction of the 12 defending units didn't destroy anything, but the riflemen occupying the city destroys half...

quote: Whether wonders could be destroyed in such a fashion is another matter; perhaps the chance could be lesser of destroying their functionality in such an attack.

See above. I'd prefer destruction to be a possible result rather than chosen act.

quote: And while I'm on the subject, do the "Stealth" bombers and fighters in the original version seem to have little advantage over the regular fighter and bomber units? The latest HiRes modpack addresses this issue. If they don't already, perhaps the Stealh units could have "submarine" cloaking procedures.

I find the advantages huge. The Stealth fighter in fact is one of the most potent units in the game. The sub flag really screws up non sub units. Civ2 Test of Time includes an expanded rules list which includes a separate "Invisible until attack" flag, which promises to act more like a stealth. I am experimenting with that flag as we speak...

Venger

[Sortub]

Venger-

I've been playing CivII since December, and pretty much have my hands full with it and the scenarios, modpacks, and "basic" game. I am wondering, however, if Test of Time is worth ordering. What do you think?

[Cam]

Sortub,

Not wishing to steal Venger's thunder or anything, but the "Should I buy Test of Time?" issue comes up somewhere on a pretty regular basis, such as... apolyton.net/forums/Forum4/HTML/000732.html

[mindseye]

Hmmm, Sortub's notion of flagging an aircraft with the submarine attributes raises an interesting possibility: can you create an air unit with the sub flag? If so, could you use this to creat aircraft capable of attacking only sea units? This would be perfect for torpedo bombers, ASW helicopters and the like. Could this work?

- mindseye

[Case]

Giving aircraft the submarine flag works perfectly in creating anti-sub aircraft and torpedo bombers. Also, the submarine flag can be used to create land units (eg partisans) that can't attack land units, but are very hard to track down (and have a very nasy habit of appearing where you want them least if you use events to create them in senarios)