What's your personal strategy?

SandMonkey · May 15, 2000, 19:07

I just want to get some insight in to how some of you guys win EVERY SINGLE GAME. I would like to apply some aspects of your strategies to maybe help perfect mine..

Well, here's my personal strategy:

I like to call it an ICS: ASTC (Adam Smith's Trading Company) & MC (Mike's Chapel) variant. It's pretty standard ICS to start... expand like crazy, every other square, no improvements (except in my SSC), and usually only wonders in my SSC. I try to get Colossus, Sun Tzu's, Cop. Obs., and then ASTC and MC, to start (any of the others are if i can get them, like Great Wall, i love it, but it's not always there to get). Once i build AS and MC, i build temples, marketplaces, and librearies in all my cities (because hey, it's free!), and allow them to grow as large as they want, since the temple and MC will normally keep them happy enough. With this strat, i can normally conquer the AI pretty easily, and if i don't conquer them completely, an AC victory is almost assured with the mass amount of gold i have and so many cities, i can build a great space ship in one turn.

So how does everyone else do it?

P.S. I am playing this on Emperor, so the happiness numbers might work out differently.
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SandMonkey

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[This message has been edited by SandMonkey (edited May 15, 2000).]

Venger · May 15, 2000, 20:08

quote:

Originally posted by SandMonkey on 05-15-2000 07:07 PM
I just want to get some insight in to how some of you guys win EVERY SINGLE GAME. I would like to apply some aspects of your strategies to maybe help perfect mine..

Expand. Each cities builds two settlers, the first builds a road or two in the direction he will settle, the second improves the part cities lands. Research, get to Monarchy and Republic. Build Pyramids, then other wonders if you have time, just to keep the AI from them. keep your cities connected for defense. Railroad makes defense against the AI pretty easy. Expand.

Venger

Seeker · May 15, 2000, 23:21

I would skip Republic, go from Monarchy to Communism using SoL.

Scouse Gits · May 16, 2000, 07:39

The quick answer is - We don't! (or at least I don't) - not all the time, just most of it. I have recently been trying to get my mind around perfectionist strategies and only building half a dozen or so cities - result - I have lost the last three such games - I can OCC, I can ICS, but as of now I can't perfectionist. But I am learning - the last one might just have been salvagable, maybe next time...

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

Oldman · May 16, 2000, 08:31

Scouse: just a couple of questions? what exactly does ICS mean? i keep on seeing it but can't figure it out?!?!

and what exactly is a perfectionist game? i kind of like to think i play perfectly every time

ha ha, yeah i know i'm full of ****! but what is it anyway?

Generally, i would be very machiavellian in my style of play! if your allied to the romans, but the mongols are obviously going to wipe them out and go after all their friends, ditch the romans and side with the winners!! I always go straight for monarchy then communism, spread like wild fire, completely occupy the land mass your on and if you still haven't got 25 ish cities, find more land!! then build, improve etc!
Wonders, i always go for the science ones, though never really made use of a SSC. Also pyramids, adam smiths, mich's cathedral and statue of lib (to get commie early).

recently from playing occ, democracy is fantastic!!!!!!! you get sooooo much science, fantastic!!! but it's no good if your at war, even a limited one makes you suffer, so you have to be "nice" to people - urgh!!!

DaveV · May 16, 2000, 08:39

Oldman - the IC stands for Infinite Cities; the S stands for Sprawl, Strategy, or Sleaze, depending on your attitude.

I use what I consider "classic" ICS: lots of size 2 cities that crank out settlers until I discover Gunpowder and/or Leadership. Then, low-tech conquest. No city improvements, no irrigation, very few mines. Hanging Gardens is pretty much mandatory for this strategy, but I can skip the other wonders against the AI.

rah · May 16, 2000, 08:43

trade trade trade. tribute tribute tribute.

But the most important thing is to be able to protect your cities from spys late in the game. So don't over expand. It's not like you need that many cities to win. Think about where you place the cities. Find some choke points to block easy access for spys. If you're going to take out ai cities, do it in an area that you can block off.

Nothing is worse that spys stealing all the final techs and a faster spaceship beating yours.

Keep you opponents busy. Stacks of units on mountain fortresses in enemy territory is a wonderful diversion. They just keep building units to lose instead of the real important things.

If you follow these tips, almost any strat will allow you to win every time. It is not that hard.

RAH

Scouse Gits · May 16, 2000, 08:59

Oldman - DaveV has answered your ICS question and if you ever want advice on how to play it in detail he is the man for ICS. Now Perfectionist - what I mean by this (others may argue) is to emulate the Babylonians have about half a dozen beautiful cities of great size (OCC writ large). The problem I encounter is that I can't seem to get the right ballance of military units to other improvements - if you follow an OCC-like path you are over-run by the AI (your population makes you supreme and therefore target - unlike OCC) if you expend on defensive units your growth is slowed - as I said I am getting there and will doubtless triumph soon, but it is a form of the game of which I have currently no real experience - and I'm finding it hard. As I remarked above MUCH harder (for me) than either OCC or ICS.

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

Ming · May 16, 2000, 09:08

Once you have figured the game out, even Deity is easy against the AI. Any strategy will usually work. It becomes more a matter of "when" you are going to win vs. "if" you are going to win. Thats why many of the challanges are so popular for those that don't play MP.

But one of my favorite pieces of advice was said by another poster (when you get older, your memory fails you)... If you don't know what to build, build caravans. And when you have enough caravans, build more caravans.

The initial trade bonus in money and beakers is a game breaker, and the continued additional trade advantage from trade routes can make all the difference in the world

Oldman · May 16, 2000, 09:20

All i can say is "Listen to Ming!" build caravans!! then build some more, and when they're coming out of your ears, double 'em!!!!

Scouse: you certainly do know your civilization history don't you!!! quotes from Cato (in latin i might add!), Babylonian history!!! but you made the perfect link in that too, when you have 6 perfect cities, you're in control, way out in front and you get picked on!!! and then wiped out, just like the babylonians!!! ha ha!!

So with the perfectionist game, do you play for AC like in OCC? So how many cities is respectable for a perfectionist game?

Adam Smith · May 16, 2000, 09:48

Scouse:
Trade is the key to winning as a perfectionist, as Ming, RAH, and others have suggested. Try this to get the hang of winning as a perfectionist:
1. Play on a large or medium board with land mass = small (more water than land) and continents = normal (as opposed to archepelligo or large continents). This will usually get you easily defensible borders on a continent that will comortably support 8-10 cities.
2. Eight cities (the amount you can get under monarchy without disorder) or 12 (the amount you can get under republic) should be enough. Cities should be close enough that your entire territory is within somebody's city radius. (This allow you to request that unwanted intruders withdraw.) Any choke points or any stray squares (particularly coastal grasslands, or plains, where AI cities can be founded) should be covered by a unit in a fortress. (No unhappiness this way.)
3. Set up your best trade city as a Super Science City (SSC) with all the requisite improvements and wonders.
4. Use other cities solely for production support. (ie build nothing but caravans) These cites have only a temple and maybe walls, plus a factory later. No real need for them to grow beyond size eight.
5. Build a good road/rail network connecting all your cities by the shortest path.
6. One or maybe two good defensive units in each city. They dont need to be veteran, and Leo can keep them up to date.
7. Build one or two strike forces for defense. This consists of a top of the line attacking unit (veteran if possible) plus a diplomat. Centrally located and with good roads, the goal is to have every city within range of one of these units, and still have at least part of a movement point left. If an attack comes, attack or bribe the first wave, and let your defenders withstand the rest.
8. Build caravans, rehome to your Super Science City (larger bonus), and go trading. Stick to high valued commodities if you can. Set up your transport system to support this trade. It is more important to land a steady stream of caravans than that each caravan be hugely profitable.
9. Late in the game keep a battleship or two around to deal with any unwanted intruders (loaded transports).
10. Use production capacity (factories + Hoover), the wonder trick, and accumulated cash to build and launch a space ship before anybody else gets the chance.

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"I fear that I shall die a Prince."
-Edward VII, Prince of Wales

DaveV · May 16, 2000, 10:25

Footnote to Adam Smith's point 8: you must go into the city display and select "support from this city" to rehome trade units. Not meaning to start another flame war here, but some consider this an abuse of the game mechanics.

Scouse Gits · May 16, 2000, 10:28

Adam - Thank you very much - I shall try that formula
Ming - I'm older than you and I can remember that it was jpk with the caravan quote!
Oldman - wait 'til I get on-line and we can meet at MP.

Thanks all

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

Bohlen · May 16, 2000, 10:40

Dave: I am one of those people that consider rehoming caravans somewhat abusive. The way I look at it, rehoming makes any strategy more successful. Wouldn't it be more of a challenge to not rehome and still win?

Adam: Thanks for the tips. I stopped playing the perfectionist style when I tried some other strategies that worked for me, but I'll have to try it out again. Using your notes as a guide, I should do just fine.

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Proud Warrior of the O.W.L. Alliance

Adam Smith · May 16, 2000, 10:50

Rehomeing is not necessary, just easier. Sort of like training wheels for trade strategy.

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"I fear that I shall die a Prince."
-Edward VII, Prince of Wales

Oldman · May 16, 2000, 10:55

Scouse: Don't think i'm avoiding you, cause i'm not!!! cause i'm not scared of you and your liverpudlian ways!?!?!?

I don't think i'll be playing mp until i've either graduated or receive a windfall!!!!

Just a quick general question about mp, how does it work? you know, playing civ online? cause when i play a game of civ, even occ it takes me 12/14 hours on and off!!!! a normal game, could take me 24hrs!??!!? so what's the story...

DaveV or Bohlen: why not start a thread

, "rehoming units, cheating?" i'll argue with you until i'm blue in the face

!!!!

Bohlen · May 16, 2000, 11:22

Oldman: Have me start that thread? Not on your life!

How about you, Dave? Feel like being Venger/AH Jr.?

Oldman · May 16, 2000, 11:29

I'd start it myself only i'd be arguing the wrong side, so it wouldn't last very long!!!!!!

Go on Bohlen!!! you're not... chicken are you?

What about you DaveV? Brawck, brawck!!! (chicken noises - sorry!!)

Ming · May 16, 2000, 11:33

There probably isn't a need to set up a thread. When this discussion occured a ways back, there was pretty much general agreement the rehoming caravans was an abuse of the rules since it could only be done through the city menu, and not the command menu. Plus, in the MP version, they fixed that little trick in one of the patches.

Steve Clark · May 16, 2000, 11:39

I can't really add much to what the others have said, but Ming said it best - against the AI, it just becomes a matter of when. I have not played the number of games the others have (limited playtime) but I have not lost in either AC or bloodlust for the key are caravans/freights. When you have built a gazillion of them and can't see a need for anymore, BUILD SOME MORE.

Oldman · May 16, 2000, 11:43

So they actually changed it so you couldn't do it? so you can't change where a unit is getting it's support from? which means that a unit has to get the resources from the city it was built, but that makes no sense - why should it matter where a unit gets it's why food and gear from, i bet the queens 10th mounted division back in 1400 fighting in old waterloo didn't get their new swords all the way from Derbyshire. They'd have had them brought on a boat from blighty and they could have been from any old town, if not some french stuff would have done?!?!?!!?!? So don't get me started!! that rule sucks, so there!!!

So where was the thread then Ming? i'll have to have a read and see what people said back then, to try and convince those like me?!?!

Edited: bloofy speelling mistaks!!
[This message has been edited by Oldman (edited May 16, 2000).]

Bohlen · May 16, 2000, 11:48

Whew! Thanks for letting me off the hook, Ming. I needed an excuse for Oldman.

Oldman · May 16, 2000, 11:51

You're not off the hook yet Bohlen!!!! I'll think of another war thread you can start!! we'll have you're name up there with the likes of AH yet?!?!

Ming · May 16, 2000, 11:59

No Oldman, you can still reassign all other units EXCEPT caravans... They realized how stupid it was, and changed it.

And I have no clue where the old thread is.
It might have been a thread specificially on the subject, but I think it was covered in another of the typical "cheat" threads.

I'll take a look, but don't hold your breath.
If anybody wants to look for it... go ahead

rah · May 16, 2000, 11:59

No, Oldman
They just fixed the homing on caravans/freight, not on any other units.

RAH

rah · May 17, 2000, 00:01

Ha Ha, Ming, beat you to it.

RAH

Oldman · May 17, 2000, 00:04

So you can re-home caravans??? So like build them with one city, move them re-home them and then give trade to the new city, or do a food exchange from that city?!?!?! God that is such a stupid rule!!!! I mean who would have ever thought that would be allowed?!?! Hmm, but you say it was fixed later, so you can do in 2.42? ha ha haaahahahhahhah!!! haha haha hahhaha hhah haha!! HA! Whoops, did i think out loud then?

Ming · May 17, 2000, 00:06

Oldman... I couldn't find it, but I didn't look very hard

The argument was your typical "rules" interpretation vs "we can, so we do"

It was a wonderful argument. YES, we can do it so we do... But no, it's against the spirit of the game, since they didn't allow it under the command menu means that the city menu way of doing it is just a bug... You are all crazy, you are all cheaters... repeat as often as needed and you get the general drift of it.

But, they solved the intent problem when they adjusted it for MP. Once that happened, the argument kind of became silly, because there was no longer anything to argue.

It's cheating... plain and simple!

and added later... Damn you rah... I had to answer a phone call, and then I saw your post

[This message has been edited by Ming (edited May 16, 2000).]

Oldman · May 17, 2000, 00:22

Cheers Ming!! (and Rah!!!!)

I've got to go, it's 5:20gmt and you guys over that side of the atlantic still have an afternoons work to do!!! ha ha!!!!

see ya!!

Ming · May 17, 2000, 00:32

Have a good one... We will go back to working

I guess this can go back to a strategy discussion now...