pic looks wrong and suggestion

May 31, 2001, 06:37

notice how the border overlaps the mountain, I find that very ugly, can you have it go underneath it so that it doesn't look weird. I can see why it would go over the top, but I really don't think people need that much of a clue as to where the border is going.

Also I find the borders to be really ugly too, can't there be something nicer looking?

Also in modern countries, borders are replaced by borderlines, where the police or army guard the road passage, shouldn't the borders change to that when electricity is invented?

Grumbold · May 31, 2001, 07:11

Borders are very different around the world. Often they are just a line on the map which is almost impossible to trace on the ground. Witness the regular scenes of civilians who accidentally stray across borders and are captured and paraded in front of the TV cameras. All major roads usually have border checkpoints but in the wilderness there is nothing.

Incidentally I hope Civ III gives us the opportunity of putting roads in a square without necessarily connecting them to roads in a neighbouring square on the other side of a culture border. It would be nice to keep road connections to the neighbours under control even if you share a lengthy border.

Provost Harrison · May 31, 2001, 08:21

I think he is referring to an issue of graphic display. Where the border is laid and the mountain sticks out, the corner of the border should be hidden by the mountain. A good point, one that would be a nice touch if they sorted it out...

SerapisIV · May 31, 2001, 10:29

Nice catch, hopefully this is one of those areas of polish that will be fixed between beta games and the release game

MrFun · May 31, 2001, 10:37

I want was going to discuss this, but you guys beat me to it.

I have a different question though. Why would the border extend through the mountain at all? It's not part of either city's radius. Does this mean that cultural borders expand unevenly and irregularly with parts of it jutting out farther than other parts?

Jarouik · May 31, 2001, 11:08

Quote:

Originally posted by MrFun
I have a different question though. Why would the border extend through the mountain at all? It's not part of either city's radius. Does this mean that cultural borders expand unevenly and irregularly with parts of it jutting out farther than other parts?

A very good point, and one I hadn't noticed earlier... indeed, in the Firaxis screenshot http://www.firaxis.com/civ3/images/a...ap_Screen2.jpg the border extends across the mountain even though otherwise the cities around it only have 1-square-radius borders.

Could it be that if you have a square that is bordered by your actual cultural borders (created by your cities) in two opposite directions, it will also be included inside your borders so as to prevent single squares of no-man's-land being left inside your empire, if your cities aren't located close enough to one another? Or does anyone have other suggestions?

BTW, being from Finland, it's nice to see you selected a Finnish artist's work as your avatar, Mr. Fun

SerapisIV · May 31, 2001, 11:10

The borders in the screenshot don't include the mountain, its just that the borders graphic layer is placed on top of the terrain layer (using Photoshop speak), so 3D effects like mountains aren't taken into account by the game yet. Hopefully a correctable issue.

MrFun · May 31, 2001, 11:15

Gee, Jarouik, what made you think Tom of Finland was from Finland??

Seriously though, thanks for your compliment. By the way, the artist's real name was Touko Laaksonen, and he died in 1991.

But about borders -- I definitely would like to know why the border is irregular. Is that going to be like that in the finished product?? Does that mean that borders will extend in random outline shape??

SerapisIV · May 31, 2001, 11:27

Quote:

Originally posted by MrFun
But about borders -- I definitely would like to know why the border is irregular. Is that going to be like that in the finished product?? Does that mean that borders will extend in random outline shape??

The border isn't irregular, if you look at the rest of the borders, a regular boxed tile is in between, that's where the mountain is. However the mountain is drawn as 3D, the borders don't realize that the mountain tile is drawn bigger then a regular square, even if its still the same game-space. It's a graphics bug, nothing more, no irregular borders. Though I'd rather have irregular borders, make the game better looking, not just square grids everywhere, but I haven't seen a 2D game do that yet.

Jarouik · May 31, 2001, 11:38

Quote:

Originally posted by SerapisIV
The borders in the screenshot don't include the mountain, its just that the borders graphic layer is placed on top of the terrain layer (using Photoshop speak), so 3D effects like mountains aren't taken into account by the game yet. Hopefully a correctable issue.

Yes, I understand that was the original issue - that the borders are drawn on top of the mountain because the graphics engine doesn't take into account that the mountain is supposed to be a 3D picture.

The thing MrFun pointed out, however, has nothing to do with the way graphics are drawn; he meant that the square in question is counted as your territory, as you can see by looking a at the screenshot, even though your borders otherwise only extend one square away from the two cities - this is not in accordance with the rules for borders heard thus far. My suggestion to explain this is above, but I have no idea whether it is the right one...

And MrFun, although I apparently don't know of Tom of Finland as much as you do, he is famous enough that no Finnish gay guy could be completely unaware of his work

SerapisIV · May 31, 2001, 11:45

Whoops. Sorry, missed that completely. I like it. Makes more sense then two city borders seperated by only one tile. I hope it doesn't extend to more then one-tile seperations though. Such a feature would eliminate problems in Civ2, where you would have cities everywhere, but when you kick an opposing Civ unit out of your territory diplomatically, it finds the one open space in you territory.

Though maybe if your cities form an unbroken ring of your land around some unclaimed territory, yet no opposing civ's units are in that space, it all becomes yours also.

May 31, 2001, 12:39

I also noticed in that screenshot that there is gold, diamonds and is that coal? in the forest. I'm pretty sure that gold comes from the mountains and is swept down by the river, and I dun see no river near those gold spots, so why is there gold so deep in the forest? and can anyone explain the coal and diamonds?

I think the resources should be propely layed out rather than randomly layed out.

m_m_x · May 31, 2001, 15:15

it looks ugly!
i hope they will fix it!!!