Trade For the 10th time

markusf · June 3, 2001, 11:45

In trying to brush away the rust, I have been combing civ2 sites for basic info and have come across the nitty-gritties of trade routes which might bear reproducing here (as I have not seen this tabling in the threads I have come across here). Source is the Scrolls of Wisdom website which acknowledged the original post by Robert Lancaster to alt.games.civ2
"The amount of trade and the bonus payment you get for establishing a trade route between two cities with a caravan or a freight depends on quite a few factors. The formulas below contain all the details.
Trade = ( trade of home city + trade of destination city + 4 ) / 8
Note that it does not directly depend on city size or distance. The following (cumulative) modifiers apply:
Both cities are yours -50%
Freight instead of caravan +50%
Cities connected by road +50%
Cities connected by rail +50%
Cities on different continents +100%
Airports in both cities +50%
Superhighways in home city +50%
The one time bonus payment is calculated as follows:
Payment = ( ( distance + 10 ) x ( trade of both cities ) ) / 24
It increases if the destination city demands one of these goods (double these figures if the city is not yours):
Silver, Cloth, Wine +50%
Silk, Spice, Gems, Gold +100%
Oil +150%
Uranium +200%
The final bonus payment figure is then doubled during the first 200 game turns or until both Navigation and Invention are discovered. It is reduced by one third after the discovery of Railroad, and by another third after the discovery of Flight. "

finbar · June 3, 2001, 19:48

Good stuff, Markus. Well done. I'm still seeking an answer to why, late in a game, trade revenue will suddenly drop to next to nothing. For example, sending uranium to a city that demands it might earn you (say) 3000 gold. Next turn, uranium sent to a city adjacent to the first one, which demands it, earns you (say) 150 gold. And from that point on, all trade earns (say) 150 gold, no matter what it is, no matter how far you send it, and whether the city demands it or not.

Rasputin · June 3, 2001, 21:54

wel lthat goes agaisnt the manual in civ 2, it says the distance travelled is the main issue !!!!!! typical of civ desigenrs to hide the real forumaleas

reds4ever · June 4, 2001, 01:58

nice one markus, are all those figures culmative (spell check!)? and also i would n't bank on getting the extra trade form the cities being connected by road or rail, 'cos the game will quite happily ignore both when you 'goto' a unit between cites, so does it know the're connected??

reds4ever · June 4, 2001, 02:02

sorry, just re-read your post, cumulative it is

DrFell · June 4, 2001, 09:07

It's not quite cumulative, in the case of airports if they're already connected by rail then the airport will make no difference.

kengel · June 4, 2001, 09:15

hmm... I experienced at least in one game a principal exception from these roles. I have to admit it was a single player game I made years ago in my pre-MP-time; I remember I had 255 cities and only 1 foreign (capital) city was left & all sciences researched. I was trying to get as much points in powergraph as possible (will never try it again--- it was toooo boring

). From one turn to another, the gold I got from trading with the foreign city dropped from 1000-2000 per caravan to 200-210

I never figured out why; the foreign city or government didn't change (checked by spies).
Also, I experienced if you open trade routes with two caravans with equal freight worth from the same home city with the same foreign city within the same turn, you get identical coins- although you should get more, since the first caravan establishes a trade route and give both cities some trade points.
All in all, I guess it is even more complicated than the rules above.
Nevertheless, it should be interesting to find out more...

finbar · June 4, 2001, 09:22

Quote:

Originally posted by kengel
hmm... I experienced at least in one game a principal exception from these roles. I have to admit it was a single player game I made years ago in my pre-MP-time; I remember I had 255 cities and only 1 foreign (capital) city was left & all sciences researched. I was trying to get as much points in powergraph as possible (will never try it again--- it was toooo boring

). From one turn to another, the gold I got from trading with the foreign city dropped from 1000-2000 per caravan to 200-210

I never figured out why; the foreign city or government didn't change (checked by spies).

kengel, that's what I'm talking about. It happens in SP games, I'm not sure about MP. But it's happened to me a number of times. It also happens no matter how many foreign cities are in existence. I've heard all sorts of explanations - there's some sort of trade max-out point; it has something to do with airports - but nothing satisfactory.

kengel · June 4, 2001, 09:38

oops... Sorry, didn't read finbars posting about that matter the first time...
Anyway, I completely agree to him.

Rasputin · June 4, 2001, 13:15

seems to be no problem for markus, eyes et al.....

finbar you are obviously just not clever enough to max out trade.....

finbar · June 4, 2001, 21:23

I realise you're being your usual perverse self, Raz, but there is, most assuredly, some sort of inbuilt trade ceiling that appears somewhere late in the game. Others have reported the same thing. I'd just like to know the basis of it.

Alexander's Horse · June 4, 2001, 23:18

Its simple really. The game assumes that at some point a lunatic like Hydey will get nukes and make trade irrelevant.

Rasputin · June 5, 2001, 00:02

Finbar,
havent seen you nor anyone else , attaining the 3000 gold per turn that markus does reularly by 1000AD so just wondering why we all bother playing !!!!

finbar · June 5, 2001, 03:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Rasputin
Finbar,
havent seen you nor anyone else , attaining the 3000 gold per turn that markus does reularly by 1000AD so just wondering why we all bother playing !!!!

Markus would run into the same glitch/bug/whatever it is in the same circumstances.

Rasputin · June 5, 2001, 15:50

Sorry Finbar , not trying to belittle your experinces , but just havent seen anyone as good at trade as these guys !!!

Will be interesting to see how they go in the 2001 Player Tournament...

Although I hear Eyes has better things to do than show us jsut how good he really is

drake · June 5, 2001, 15:54

Quote:

Although I hear Eyes has better things to do than show us jsut how good he really is

yeah...right

Actually I think he has a match with Pete Sampras in the afternoon, so maybe

War4ever · June 5, 2001, 16:08

Quote:

Originally posted by drake

yeah...right

Actually I think he has a match with Pete Sampras in the afternoon, so maybe

*snicker*

Rasputin · June 5, 2001, 21:47

its a shame reaaly, cause I had my money on him whipping all you other guys... !!!

markusf · June 5, 2001, 22:05

Quote:

Originally posted by finbar

Markus would run into the same glitch/bug/whatever it is in the same circumstances.

only glitch that i have found is that airports don't work with your own cities if they are less then 10 squares apart. and airports will only take your trade(to your own cities) to a max of +24????

I always trade with my own cities anyways. Depending how many wonders i want to hog, i may not have size 20+ cities by 900 ad. but i can get then that big by 500ad if i want

Rasputin · June 5, 2001, 22:50

so there goe sthe bonus for foriegn trade that some stated as how to get this SUPER TRADEgoing,,

I am in total awe that you can achieve this Markus, hope you are going to show your talents in the 2001 competition

markusf · June 5, 2001, 23:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Rasputin
so there goe sthe bonus for foriegn trade that some stated as how to get this SUPER TRADEgoing,,

I am in total awe that you can achieve this Markus, hope you are going to show your talents in the 2001 competition

Not likely. I will gear my effort towards hogging wonders. Like i did the last time around. This strat can also be modified to hog all the wonders and become huge fast.. I attached the last saved game file from Mark E and finbar game in last years tourny. I used a early version of my wonderhog/army strat. As you can see from the save, even if one really good player has both mikes, and bachs they are powerless to stop me.

Rasputin · June 6, 2001, 00:21

another gloating post and attached save game... We all know how good youare, jsut tell us how to do it !!!

finbar · June 6, 2001, 17:30

Quote:

Originally posted by markusf

only glitch that i have found is that airports don't work with your own cities if they are less then 10 squares apart. and airports will only take your trade(to your own cities) to a max of +24????

The glitch (or whatever it is) that I'm talking about happens (as far as I know) only in SP games. It's been a long time since I've played a SP game through until it appears. Suddenly, in the space of a turn, your trade returns drop from what you'd normally expect - multi-thousands - to about 150. It doesn't matter what trade you send or how far you send it. And, from memory, the low return is exactly the same - say, 150 - no matter what you send or how far you send it. It's almost as though there's an in-built ceiling on trade income for the game. Once you reach it, trade becomes meaningless. It might even be a function of the software trying to even out the game.