Favourite Faction

[Jethro83]

Originally posted by dworkin
The Believers. Not the brightest bunch but the biggest. I'll admit it's a bit of a crawl till you get probes but then it's probes anywhere and everywhere.

Indeed. Surely its the only way to be the Believers. Keep the University and Morganites alive and probe them of everything they've got (so long as you let them stay strong enough to make enough cash and technology to be of any interest).

So you're a crazed, bible thumping looney with thousands of armed fanatics screaming for blood at your beck and call? At least you are not pretending to be nice like all those other godless wretches.

Actually, when I play as the Believers, I actually do pretend to be the nice guy. I simply frame another faction when I use my probes. If they succeed, I look like the nice guy which really helps in Planetary Governor elections. If they fail, I simply loose my bible-thumping gun nuts on them and force them into submission, give them their bases back, rinse and repeat (if another probe action against them fails).

[Kirov]

I find the opening by believers very boring. Finding another faction can take ages, and just imagine you're on the island and have to discover D:Flexibility by yourself...

[Jethro83]

Sure the Believers get to a slow start, but once the other factions are located and you have Planetary Networks (of course you need to buy it), the game rapidly accelerates.

Unfortunately, being alone on an island is quite a curse for the Believers. And its hardly worth playing on. The Believers are made for a game where you have a lot of neighbours on the same landmass.

[Gunnar Thor]

Spartans. Passive Aggressive all the way.

[Hendrik]

I like the Morganites the best, and I also do well with them. Having a lot of energy promotes a virtuous cycle... money buys infrastructure, infrastructure gives you more money and tech, more money and tech give you more infrastructure... ad infinitum.

It is really easy with the Morganites to boost energy production up to an obscene level and take the infrastructural and tech lead over any other faction.

Getting to Industrial auto, wealth, and supply crawlers fast minimizes support penalties and allows you to build the SPs you want to.

As far as the Morganites depending on a good start position... I find it is easier for the Morganites than for any other faction to expand across an unoccupied continent fast if you know how to rush buy recycling tanks and ICS. If you start next to a hostile AI then it usually isn't a problem, if you start next to a hostile player then things can get a bit dicey. Energy is important in combat though, being able to rush buy or upgrade units gives you much much more flexibility than any other faction in the early game. But once you get into the midgame then you are set... if you are able to build this long then superior tech and energy give you a lot of flexibility. Also Morgan is a versatile midgame faction with Demo/Green/Wealth, this allows you to get the conventional FM +2 econ bonus without having to worry about pacifism drones.

The UofP gets tech fast but can't utilize it quickly enough... having the tech for tree farms doesn't help you if you don't have enough energy to utilize it, the They seem like a one trick horse to me, rush for D:AP and conquer other players. The University can't compete with most other builder or hybrid factions in the midgame, because the drone penalties funnel too much energy away from research.

The drones on the other hand face the opposite problem... they can build whatever they have the tech for, but they have a hard time researching tech themselves.

The Morganites are just strong throughout the game for me. In the early game strong research and money allows you to stand toe to toe with momentum factions having more units, in the midgame the infrastructure lead gives you a competitive advantage, and in the late game... well by this point your infrastructure advantage makes Morgan very powerful.

Morgan is a happy medium between the two. Tech*Money is a powerful combo.

[Method]

ok, it's official: this thread is immortal

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Hendrik

The UofP gets tech fast but can't utilize it quickly enough... having the tech for tree farms doesn't help you if you don't have enough energy to utilize it, the They seem like a one trick horse to me, rush for D:AP and conquer other players. The University can't compete with most other builder or hybrid factions in the midgame, because the drone penalties funnel too much energy away from research.

The Morganites are just strong throughout the game for me. In the early game strong research and money allows you to stand toe to toe with momentum factions having more units, in the midgame the infrastructure lead gives you a competitive advantage, and in the late game... well by this point your infrastructure advantage makes Morgan very powerful.

Morgan is a happy medium between the two. Tech*Money is a powerful combo.

I have to disagree based upon my own experiences, though I don't claim to be a good Morgan player, I have played both the Uni and Morgan from similar positions, and I must say that I just don't see the advantage of Morgan. I am usually about 20 years ahead in development after the first 100 years as Zak vs playing Morgan from a very similar starting position.

I just don't worry about those drones. They aren't too hard to handle honestly. As for producing the infrastructure that your tech advances make available to you, it's not too hard either. Simply beeline for crawlers, switch to wealth and bootstrap your industry. Then build all the drone protection you'll need via the VW and HGP. I use crawlers in fact to take care of both drone problems and boost early game minerals.

Both factions have a combat problem. For Morgan it's the support issue, which is a real limitation in the early game, especially if you are fighting someone who isn't all that vulnerable to probes. For the University, their vulnerability to probes can be a problem. Cheap probe garrisons are vital for any part of your empire that might be vunerable to drone assault.

By even the early midgame both factions are powerhouses. They both have some good SE choices for either peace or war, and both receive a nice bonus to their output. Their weaknesses in the early game are almost an afterthought at this point.

[Hendrik]

Yeah I agree.. Morgan's only lasting disadvantage is the hab limit, and ascetic virtues more or less nullifies that, Zack can solve his probe problems with the HSA.

As far as development goes... it depends on the situation. Sure having crawlers helps develop your infrastructure, but having a good economy helps much more, because you can more easily spend money to equalize development at your bases or boost up a SSC. Money is also key to buying SPs- crawler upgrades give Morgan an advantage at midgame SP building.

I can see situations where Zack would excell, and situations where Morgan would excell. The more commerce you are receiving, the better Morgan does. If you are running FM/Wealth then it should be very easy to get obscene amounts of cash from trade. Zack won't get this money, making him somewhat of a weaker choice in games where there is a lot of commerce.

I also am saying this from the perspective of someone who has more experience with Morgan than Zack... In games where I play as Zack I usually have about the same tech as I would with Morgan after 100 years, but lag behind infrastructurally *shrugs* there are so many variables it is hard to compare factions. It is just very easy to get ahead of anyone else with Morgan by running FM/Wealth as soon as you can, you make 6 money per base square, by rush buying recycling tanks you can expand really rapidly, the UofP doesn't have any similar fast expansion technique.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Hendrik
As far as development goes... it depends on the situation. Sure having crawlers helps develop your infrastructure, but having a good economy helps much more, because you can more easily spend money to equalize development at your bases or boost up a SSC. Money is also key to buying SPs- crawler upgrades give Morgan an advantage at midgame SP building.

I can see situations where Zack would excell, and situations where Morgan would excell. The more commerce you are receiving, the better Morgan does. If you are running FM/Wealth then it should be very easy to get obscene amounts of cash from trade. Zack won't get this money, making him somewhat of a weaker choice in games where there is a lot of commerce.

I also am saying this from the perspective of someone who has more experience with Morgan than Zack... In games where I play as Zack I usually have about the same tech as I would with Morgan after 100 years, but lag behind infrastructurally *shrugs* there are so many variables it is hard to compare factions. It is just very easy to get ahead of anyone else with Morgan by running FM/Wealth as soon as you can, you make 6 money per base square, by rush buying recycling tanks you can expand really rapidly, the UofP doesn't have any similar fast expansion technique.

I would rather have a crawler bootstrapped industry than a high flying economy, though I usually have both when playing either Zak or Morgan. The difference is that I will have my industry up and running sooner with Zak because he will get crawlers before Morgan will. Compare the power of having 15 minerals per base vs having 6 econ per base. I can produce 7 econ a turn simply by stockpiling energy, or half a crawler for a less developed base. Obviously Zak can run FM / Wealth as can Morgan, though he doesn't get the maximum bonus from commerce.

Morgan's chief advantage here is his ability to run Wealth only and still get that +2 Econ. This allows him to use police to quell drones while still in his initial expansion / exploration phase, while Zack ends up having to rush rec commons and curtail exploration to deal with the large negatives from running FM. It is by no means a temporary advantage, but the way I play it is most advantageous in this part of the early game.

I agree that most of the time I have my first set of bases (up to the 1st bureau limit) in place sooner with Morgan than with Zak, but this is in large part due to the fact that I stop building colony pods in my first few bases quite early in order to start building infrastructure, mostly crawlers recycling tanks and rec commons. While this makes the last few bases a little late, it tends to also guarantee that I will get a lion's share of the early game SP. I'm just too greedy to not have the WP, HGP, VW, and usually the PTS and another early game SP in my clutches.

Morgan has to play catch up a bit with the SPs, though it's not too tough for him to get the critical ones he needs. One nice advantage for those who use the crawler upgrade trick is that Morgan already has synthmetal prototyped, which means that those trance synthmetal crawlers are ready to serve as SP builders early in the game. I give my Zack game an advantage vs my Morgan game here nonetheless, mainly due to the larger number of minerals produced at this stage and the larger number of crawlers already built.

I just started a new game as Morgan yesterday, but didn't get too far into it. I'll crank that up today and see whether I can't improve my Morgan game a bit.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Sik,

I agree with your overall impressions of Zak. A couple of points tho'. Morgie is best suited going Biogenetics asap and first builds being rec tanks rushed.

Then go the IA beeline with centauri (formers) picked up along the way.

After crawlers go the Secrets of the Human Brain route and research to get crecehs if threatened. One more stop to Green and you can go conquering with natives and probe teams or continue to research on towards weapon techs.

All the while Morgie continues to ICS whilst in FM/wealth combo if not threatened.

One of the probs with Zak is that whilst in wealth his opportunity to get elites is less than Morgie. Zak has to do a lot more in order to churnout elites, as Fundy/wealth creches is not an option. Morgie goes Fundy/wealth creches command center/ bioenhancement trained and voila all troops are elite. Zak must run knowledge to achieve the same and then he gives up +2 econ unless running FM.

All in all both play differntly once you get past the initial builderish phase but each one is interesting. I agree tho' Zak to my mind is a bit stronger, although I do enjoy playing both.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Sik,

I agree with your overall impressions of Zak. A couple of points tho'. Morgie is best suited going Biogenetics asap and first builds being rec tanks rushed.

Then go the IA beeline with centauri (formers) picked up along the way.

After crawlers go the Secrets of the Human Brain route and research to get crecehs if threatened. One more stop to Green and you can go conquering with natives and probe teams or continue to research on towards weapon techs.

All the while Morgie continues to ICS whilst in FM/wealth combo if not threatened.

So you find that this more than makes up for the delay in getting formers and IA? I haven't played Morgan like this for a long time, mainly because I have been worried about getting IA late. I'll give it a try.

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
One of the probs with Zak is that whilst in wealth his opportunity to get elites is less than Morgie. Zak has to do a lot more in order to churnout elites, as Fundy/wealth creches is not an option. Morgie goes Fundy/wealth creches command center/ bioenhancement trained and voila all troops are elite. Zak must run knowledge to achieve the same and then he gives up +2 econ unless running FM.

All in all both play differntly once you get past the initial builderish phase but each one is interesting. I agree tho' Zak to my mind is a bit stronger, although I do enjoy playing both.

I hear what you are saying about Zak's weak troops during the Wealth era. Fortunately he gets to Knowledge fairly quickly most of the time, and I am usually looking for more efficiency and morale about that time, so I usually make the switch. I hadn't even thought of going Fundy with Morgan to get elites (or at least not until the discussion on CGN), I have usually gone with the "Green War Machine" in an emergency. It provides pseudo clean troops who don't suffer at all from a morale penalty. I can usually get a good kill ratio with worms vs the AI, and this makes them worth the initial mins. Even one or two are often enough to break up a fairly heavy enemy attack, especially if they are accompanied by a probe or two and you have built the +50% Psi Defense SP.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

"So you find that this more than makes up for the delay in getting formers and IA? I haven't played Morgan like this for a long time, mainly because I have been worried about getting IA late. I'll give it a try."

No I still rate Zak the real monster builder and monster faction overall. I have found the initial rush of tanks using the initial 100 ec's is the best opening gambit as it allows the earliest quick expansion and gives you flexibility to go towards IA without necessarily sidetracking to Formers, if you so choose. You obviously want formers but with Biogenetics you may want to be tempted to go straight for Secrets of the Human Brain and bypass Formers and IA for the moment. I normally fight that urge and instead concentrate on getting to FM early and making the switch early and continuing the tried and true beeline to IA and pick up formers when one of the beline techs aren't available.


"I hear what you are saying about Zak's weak troops during the Wealth era. Fortunately he gets to Knowledge fairly quickly most of the time, and I am usually looking for more efficiency and morale about that time, so I usually make the switch. I hadn't even thought of going Fundy with Morgan to get elites (or at least not until the discussion on CGN), I have usually gone with the "Green War Machine" in an emergency. It provides pseudo clean troops who don't suffer at all from a morale penalty. I can usually get a good kill ratio with worms vs the AI, and this makes them worth the initial mins. Even one or two are often enough to break up a fairly heavy enemy attack, especially if they are accompanied by a probe or two and you have built the +50% Psi Defense SP. "

I normally only think of the warring option if you get squeezed early and this typically is a criticism of Morgie moreso than Zak. I only put the above in because Morgie has the rep of being an early push over and not a war mongerer faction and I was trying to refute that claim to some extent. I have, however, impact rushed with Morgan going Fundy/green/wealth creche/Command Nexus/ Bioenhancement center. It was a beautiful thing. I was churning out Commando 4-1-1's stopping by a monolith to elite-a-fy them and using land transports at the point of attacks, thus allowing the full two attacks.

The land transport was so effective as I had a road up to the base inquestion. The transport shuttled a fresh 4-1-1 to the point of attack. 4-1-1 would attack. Shuttle would go back a square and pick up the next and delviver to the attack. I was thus able to get 2 infantry units to the doorstep in a single turn and deliver their +25% attack (2 times each without suffering the 33% hasty penalty on the 2nd attack)

But I digress.

I still feel Zak the more powerful overall faction and albeit a bit less overall energy production than Morgie, not significantly so (and this is normally nullied or turned into an advantage for Zak when considering specialists and ability to pop boom to get specialists immediately). Morgie does shine tho' in his own right especially considering (were it not for our penchant for specialization) Morgie would likely be able to out research Zak in the midgame by going demo/green/wealth and slamming energy allocation to 100% labs.

[Hendrik]

Just curious Sikander would you like to play an IP game? I don't really want to start any new PBEMs... they move so slowly, I just can't stand it. It would be fun to have a build off with Zack and Morgan.

As far as researching IA goes I pick biogenetics as a first tech, and industrial economics as a second tech, and then go wealth immediatly. It has been a long time since I played a single player game. But as far as playing catch up- the tremendous amounts of cash that Morgan makes allow you to upgrade crawlers to make up for your lack of existing crawlers, and build it quickly.

I also use energy to rush buy any crawler in production at my HQ base that has more than 10 minerals in it, I crank them out as quickly as I can.

Ogie's description of Morgan is exactly what I like to do. Actually do you remember when I posted under the name Enigma Ogie? I think we were talking about early game Morgan like a year ago or so.

One other thing Sik, if you don't play IP then perhaps we could exchange some SAV files? I have an "ideal" game on the standard map of planet I played as Morgan, where I started on the center continent and built to my hearts content, I would have been able to build the Ascent around MY 170 or so, but I could have done it earlier if I screwed around with energy parks... I just find they are too much micro.

My email address is hendrik.veerhusen@mail.trincoll.edu, anyone who wants to can send me a save. I have reached a point in my gaming career where I play with a fairly rigid style- a style that works, but I still think I can improve upon. I am just looking for inspiration I will send you my saves if you wish, and would love to have any advice you can give.

I have 1 SP game where I played all the way to transcendance, and a few sets of MP IP game saves.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Enigma a.k.a. Hendrik the credit is all yours this early opening gambit of your for Morgie is a beaut. and yes I obviously remember the conversation other wise I wouldn't have so blatently stolen it LOL...

I actually think between the two builder powres there is likely to be a several changes in power.

I see it something like this.

Zak gets to IA first. Zak builds the first set of crawlers and may get oneo f the early SP's. Figure My 2120ish

Zak has the early Lead

Morgie gets to IA 2125 ish and builds crawlers by MY 2128ish.

Morgie capitalizes on massive energy and builds 2 to 3 of the early SP's.

Morgie takes over the lead.

Zak builds the other 2 to 3.

Midgame gambit. Depending on what Morgie got he continues sprawl.

Zak prepares for pop boom and specialization.
Zak sprawls after pop boom is complete wherein he starts to build his lead.

Zak retakes lead.

(this of course assumes no war between the two or against other factions it also negates the effects of trade income etc.)

[Hendrik]

Wow... is it really possible for Zack to get an SP in the early 20s? This would be pretty mind boggling... if you guys have some SAV files showing this I would be very interested. I mean in 25 years you will barely be able to get any terraforming done, crawlers are only half as efficient without forests to harvest from. I would like to see this in action

As far as Zack pop booming, around what year does he usually do this? If you are playing on a map with average settings you will need to get to tree farms before you can efficiently popboom in any bases but the coastal bases.

Please Ogie, Sik, send me some saves, expand my horizons

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Depends greatly on Ability to cash in a Alien Artifact or a Ogre.

I was probably agressive. Figure onpushing back the MY 10 years in both Morgie and Zak.

[Frankychan]

someone should 'top' this thread.....

Go all you loyal Hive citizens! Chairman Yang forever!

[Clear Skies]

Just to get some debate started (and keep this thread alive):
Yang's philosophy is abhorrent :P

[Jethro83]

All factions have their philosophical flaws. Even the ones we seem to love so much.

For example, Dierdre would put the wants of the Planetmind above humanity's very survival. She would make us a slave to that... thing! Despite this, we all admire her for her concern for the well-being of Planet.

Yang is indeed a paranoid despot fearing the free-will of the human mind. Despite this, many of us admire the non-materialistic way of life he preaches, that eliminates the non-essentials, making for a clearer outlook on life.

Zakharov would be so careless with his technology that not only would he carry out unethical research into it, but it might go out of control and destroy humanity. Despite this, we admire his desire to push humanity into a new golden age of intellectualism.

Morgan would maintain the old, outdated class system, and exploit the lower classes, as well as exploiting the natural resources of Planet. His faction seems to function like a virus. Entering an area, consuming all of its resources and spreading to a new area in vaster numbers. Despite this, some would admire the vitality and sheer energy output of his free market economy (though I obviously don't)

Miriam brings the ignorances of the past into the future with her so-called 'religion'. But she seems to provide a haven for those who for some reason don't want their genes tampered with by science.

Lal would weaken humanity with a false sense of unity. His ideology of uniting everyone, despite the disaster aboad the Unity, and despite the conflicting ideologies is simply wishful thinking at its worst. But he is admirable for his humanitarian concerns.

Even my favourite faction, the Spartan Federation has its flaws. Not only are they derived from the terrorist Spartan Coalition group, whom Santiago smuggled aboard, but they are a cruel society, killing anyone they presume to be 'weak', much like the namesake ancient Greek citystate. But the admirable part of their society is the dutiful, valiant cadre of hardened soldiers ready to accept the harshest aspects of reality.

While its all a matter of opinion as to who is the 'right' faction (that's what makes this game so interesting), it also helps to be able to see things from the other perspectives.

If you hate the Hive, try and look at them from the eyes of a loyal Hive citizen. If you think Dierdre spouts nothing but tree-crazy gibberish, try and look at it from the view of one of her loyalists. Even I, a fervent anti-capitalist try at times to see the positive aspects of living in the corporate republic of Morgan Industries.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Hendrik
Wow... is it really possible for Zack to get an SP in the early 20s? This would be pretty mind boggling... if you guys have some SAV files showing this I would be very interested. I mean in 25 years you will barely be able to get any terraforming done, crawlers are only half as efficient without forests to harvest from. I would like to see this in action

As far as Zack pop booming, around what year does he usually do this? If you are playing on a map with average settings you will need to get to tree farms before you can efficiently popboom in any bases but the coastal bases.

Please Ogie, Sik, send me some saves, expand my horizons

I've rarely played on average settings, preferring almost always to play on huge maps, so I don't get as quick a start by any stretch of the imagination. I'll try to put something together for you and send it out though. Ogie is the acknowledged speedmaster IMO, he shaved many turns off of my opening game with his advice. I'm a big pop boom fan, which sort of hurts when playing Morgan. I can't seem to get him really going until the end of the 1st century on a huge map. Sure I have a lot of bases (18 or more), and most of them are heavily built up and terraformed by then, but I remain nonetheless 20 years behind games where I play the University. One thing that really hurts is delaying formers. It's my free pick as the University, so I start out building them immediately. I get to crawlers so quickly that I usually have a couple of them at all my central bases before I even get the tech for them with Morgan. That ends up making quite a difference in mineral production as it becomes time to build SPs.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by LordAzreal
All factions have their philosophical flaws

How dare you insult the GREAT, PERFECT University of Planet....

[Hendrik]

What time I research formers depends entirely on the map. If the map has a lot of fungus, or is more arid, I will research formers either after biogenetics or industrial economics. I usually don't have any problem coordinating terraforming and rapid expansion.

I played two games on standard maps, with the UoP and Morgan. At year 100 I was 3 or 4 techs ahead with the UoP, but had about half as many fully developed bases. I started this game out in a rather extreme way, by building only 2 bases and cranking out crawlers to build SPs before I expanded. However I also started with Mount planet right next to my HQ, which speeded up my energy and labs quite a bit (longevity vaccine + energy park = CASH!).

I don't like huge maps because they take a *long* time to play, and the AI is really bad at attacking across long distances, or over water. I tend to like somewhat more of a challenge.

Overall I think Zack is one of the best two factions for SP play, Yang being the other. The AI doesn't know how to probe very well (IE putting probe teams right next to your military units) and doesn't develop enough infrastructure to compete with your tech rate. In MP though Zack has no advantages other than his tech, and I don't like having to rely on getting SPs. ICSing with Morgan is entirely possible without the HGP actually... just hurry rec commons in new bases.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Hendrik,

Your experimenting coincides with my play testing as well.

What I find in comparing and contrasting Zak vs. Morgie is the following:

The opening Morgie recylce tank rush buy gambit allows Morgie much more rapid colony pod generation and much faster initial expansion than say Zak.

On standard world setups Zak aquires IA around 2115-8ish. Again like you depending on initial surroundings (i.e. presence of rolling rainies or monoliths) Zak can forgo formers. If this is the case he normally gets IA around 2112ish depending if a energy special or river is present.

At this point he normally has only 2 bases and is in the process of establishing bases 3 and 4. Say by 2120 he has bases 3 and 4.

If he went formers first he normally has roads connecting bases 1 and 2 and 2 forest squares.

Morgie in contrast has recycle tanks in bases 1&2 normally no later than 2107 ish. Pods then come out at a minimum of 4 to 5 turns later (rushed if needed)

Switch to FM is around 2115 ish. Initial energy goes strictly to rush first builds of recycle tanks on bases 3&4.

I find Morgie getting to IA around 2125 to 2130 ish. but in the meantime he has ICSed and has at least 2-4 more bases in the same time frame as Zak. Zak has formers which help his min buildup with crawlers but fewer bases.

I plan to try a couple games on standard map of planet with Zak and Morgie in the same starting point.

My approach will be similar. Record when IA is achieved both factions. Record when first SP is achieved both factions. Record when 6 bases are achieved both factions.

I also concur with your assesment strengths weaknesses of Zak. Morgie while pop boom hindered covers this weakness by ICSing and rec commons rushing. The only prob I see by going this route is, I normally expereince at least one to two bases per game devoured by rogue worms prior to having a garison unit in place. Granted you can always send an escort but I tend to play as aggressive build as possible and forgoe the extra expense of a min of support to a scout/garrison unit.

PS one other hidden adavantage to Morgie. He comes with with synth metal already prototyped. You can from the get go make synth crawlers in your workshop and then upgrade to normal crawlers to synth and ultimately synth/trance for cash in for SP's. This shaves a goodly amount of time that otherwise would be wasted.

[Hendrik]

Ogie this is exactly the sort of thing I would like to do but don't have the patience to do
Could you show us the saves when you are done? I tend to disregard drone warnings whilst playing Morgan because I can afford to rush buy rec commons when necessary, but I am curious as to how beneficial it would be to stay at the low drone warning for a while. I usually have a lot of size 1 bases producing next to nothing because of inefficiency drones (IE only pop point is a doctor), but still contributing energy and labs.

The prototyped synthemetal feature is quite handy. It allows you to upgrade any units you have lying around to synthemetal in the event of an attack. Trying to support a significant military is very hard in the early game, I try to maximize the utility I get out of independant units by upgrading them (IE unity rovers out of pods, units you start with in MP games).

[Academician]

I like the Univeristy, of course, because of their research, and free network nodes at every base, making aline artifacts easier to use.

[Frankychan]

Originally posted by Clear Skies
Just to get some debate started (and keep this thread alive):
Yang's philosophy is abhorrent :P

Blasphemy! Where are the police when you need to crush dissent?

The glamour of the Human Hive sparkles far above the other factions!

(Is that enough Hive propaganda for you all?)

[Alinestra Covelia]

Interesting that the Hive was cast as an Asian community by the game's heavily Western designers.

The West has traditionally developed a philosophical code whereby the individual is the frame of reference for the society.

The East has been influenced by such teachings as Confucianism and Daoism, which focus on the community as being the frame of reference for the individual. Even in Korean, Japanese, and Chinese society, the name by which a person is referred first stresses the family identifier, then the individual identifier. The Chinese method of postal addresses goes "Nation, Province, City, Street, Home" instead of the Western norm "Home, Street, City, Province, Nation". The Chinese express the date as "1949.10.01" whereas the Europeans express it as "28th June 1914", and the Americans express it (in defiance of any numerical logic) "July 4th 1776".

I can understand why the game might portray the Chinese ideals of communal duty as being dangerous and brutal.

I'm sure if the Chinese made a similar game, the Chairman's ideology would be presented in a different way.

Nonetheless, to give Brian Reynolds and his team the credit they deserve, the Chairman is given some excellent quotes, and it is clear that his ideology is not simplified to a "brutal Communist thug" doctrine. Although the overall commentary appears to be ultimately condemnatory, the faction is portrayed as a complex one instead of a simple cartoon dictatorship.

[MariOne]

nice post!

BTW, what happened on 28 June '14, that should be of importance for us Europeans????

[KrysiasKrusader]

The assissination of Archduke Frans Ferdinand at Sarajevo. This precipitated the First World War.

[Clear Skies]

Reminds me of one of the graffiti in Nick Lees' book.
"Archduke Franz Ferdinand found alive. First World War a mistake. Sorry for the inconvenience."