An OCC start on Deity+5

samson · June 11, 2001, 11:55

Hi all,

I have attached a save file from a game started on the Deity+5 level, i.e. 5 levels of difficulty above Deity. In other words, this level is to Deity, what Deity is to Chieftain. Deity+5 gives the AI civs enormous advantages in production, research, and population growth. They develop huge cities, build wonders like mad, and are competitive in the science race.

Deity+5 also causes severe unhappiness and rioting factors for the human civ. However, these are triggered by supported military units and the founding of a second city. If you play OCC and do not build military units until after you have Shakespeare's Theatre, those problems never arise. To do this, you need to get a NONE unit for city defense ASAP.

The attached save is from 3750BC. This is a random, medium map with 7 civs and raging hoards. The single settler has located a decent OCC site (4 whales) and there is a hut-tipped NONE horse unit for exploring or city defense. Starting techs: Alphabet, Bronze Working, Currency. Playing as Americans.

I have not played this game beyond this save and do not know if it is winable. But I have won a game at Deity+5 playing OCC and found it quite challenging. I was racing for every Wonder and just barely beat the AI to AC. I thought I would post this start so that others can try out D+5 if they wish.

Load the game as you normally would. The load message will tell you that the Difficulty level is "Neutral". This is a slight bug in which the post-Deity levels take their description strings from the list of attitudes. Everything else should work fine on Civ2, v242. However, super-Deity levels do NOT work on MGE. Sorry.

For more info on Super Deity, see the thread in CIV2/GENERAL.

samson

solo · June 11, 2001, 17:56

What do you think, Paul, a candidate for the next comparison game? Looks like it might be fun to try.

Smash · June 11, 2001, 19:58

Seems to work fine on my MAC version.Only difference was the level was called "salt".

Paul · June 12, 2001, 00:21

Sounds like fun. And the AI keeps up in research better. I already lost both Colossus and Copernicus to the AI.

Jaguar · June 12, 2001, 15:24

1636 AD

No wonders.

I spent the whole game getting caravans ready for apollo's, let the AI discover everything, while they gave me techs, and then when they got SF I built apollo's and a ship before they started building. I stayed at size 4 the whole time. This is easier than Deity OCC!

On the other hand, the whole idea I worked this on was kinda cheaty.

samson · June 13, 2001, 10:25

Did you actually play out the landing or just quit when you launched and claim victory?
Can you post your 1635AD pre-landing save file?
How did you get Fusion Power? I've never seen the AI research it, let alone give it away.

solo · June 13, 2001, 12:57

Just started and I'm taking a break at 1 AD. So far the AI have built about 7 wonders, and each I've met has about 8 size-12 cities now and they seem to have been growing exponentially! To them, I'm just a hopeless gnat. This is wild and wooly fun and I don't expect to win the race to AC, but will have a good time watching the AI battle it out! So far, 3 contacts, 3 embassies and 3 alliances, but will this tolerance last?

samson · June 13, 2001, 14:39

It's 1581AD. I launched a minimal ship in 1560, due to arrive AC in 1596.

Wonders.
I got Colossus, Cope's, Newton's, Shakespeare, and Apollo.
The AI got everything else. Only the Manhattan Project remains unbuilt.

The top five cities are all Egyptian. Memphis is size 79.
I should never have given those guys Sanitation.

I've spent the last 20 years in Commie pumping out vet spies and sabotaging the Egyptian cities -- trying to slow their research and wreck their production. We're at war now. I have 2 spies left, pollution up the wazoo, and my city is defended by a chariot.

They just got Superconductor and launched a ship due to arrive in 1593!
I've got 12 years left to reduce their capitol (a size 36 city) to rubble without conquering it and getting a second city.

I'm toast.

solo · June 14, 2001, 13:56

I am at 1000 AD. now. I can say that this is tremendous fun, and that the best wonder to go for is Shakespeare's which is the only one I've managed so far. I don't think I want to try for any others, either. So far I'm at size 22 and have acquired 53 techs (quite a few are off the path, though). I'm playing fast and loose, making plenty of mistakes, but am starting to get the hang of +5 and believe that with slower, careful play a very early landing is possible.

samson · June 14, 2001, 15:30

I played out my "toasted" position to completion.

Figuring "in for a penny in for a pound" I continued to pump out vet spies and let the Egyptians hammer my city with their bombers. I send all my spies at Thebes to poison the water supply. By 1589 I had them down to size 3 with 3 defenders behind city walls. Then I sent in 2 howies and took out the defenders. My last 2 spies poisoned them down to size 1 and the wounded howie rolled in. "Egyptian spaceship returns to earth!" destroying 3 wonders to boot. The Germans eventually launched a big ship, but they were too late. Americans landed on AC in 1596 ... What a fun game!

I think a much earlier landing is possible. I got bumped up from "pathetic" to "weak" before finding the Japanese and my beaker costs doubled for a long while. I saw a strange thing, too. At one point in the end game, Washingon went into disorder with Shakepeare's Theatre. An elvis got it out again, but still it was strange. I think Marco Polo would be a good wonder to try for in +5. The AI researches well and, if carefully monitored, they could do a lot of the science stuff for you.

I hope others try this. It's great fun to have a competitive AI.

samson · June 14, 2001, 15:41

Look at the size of these AI cities.

solo · June 14, 2001, 17:53

Just got to love this game! Embassies with all AI via diplomats is even better, since we all know communism now. 1400 AD with 68 techs. still need computers and flight through space flight though.

solo · June 14, 2001, 22:52

I lost out to the Indians by 10 years. They arrived in 1791, using their 100+ cities to rush a ship and to catch up in research. The last few techs came very slowly after such a rapid start, and I think I should have built Sir Isaac's when I had the chance. However, on the plus side, I survived, learned the tech tree by 1788 and ended the game pollution free, a nice booby prize. I'll have to try this again, as it was thouroughly enjoyable.

samson · June 15, 2001, 11:21

Yeah, the endgame is wild in D+5. The AI really makes a race out of it. The Indians, heh? They were out of it in my game - constantly at war with somebody.

Something I noticed when I was poisoning the Egyptian capitol in my endgame. As I took Thebes down from 36 to 3, Memphis also dropped in pop, from size 85 to 69. Almost as if the two cities were linked somehow in population. Maybe the AI has been reading Apolyton and knows about the "food caravan trick".

solo · June 16, 2001, 22:17

In my game the Indians were very strong, first rolling over many German cities with hordes of elephants and later providing me with 300 gold per turn for a long stretch! Their biggest city had 112 citizens!

Japan was very strong militarily, and snuffed out the English near the end of the game. They had an incredible amount of military hardware.

One mistake I made was not paying the Celts 900g to start an alliance, because I would have gotten that back with interest in gifts. Gifts reminded me of the size 4 game!

I got most of my techs through trading with the AI, using my embassies with each to monitor their research (and gold for gifts). Things slowed down a lot when my best researchers went Fundamentalist.

I did pretty well with trade, as might be imagined, getting excellent payoffs with the English and Japanese. This help perk up my own research, too.

I got a little carried away bribing AI units, but I was rolling in gold from gifts. Might have been better to go for INU, and with more careful play at the start, Copernicus might have been mine. Both would have helped in the endgame, but early in this one, the AI started building wonders very early. They would announce, and BOOM, 3 turns later they would be done! At that time, I didn't think I would get any at all, because they were so fast out of the gate!

Ribannah · June 17, 2001, 05:40

Alas, it doesn't work with MGE ("illegal operation")

solo · June 17, 2001, 13:07

too bad

solo · June 17, 2001, 13:08

A good reason to get yourself a copy of 2.42

Jaguar · June 18, 2001, 13:34

I counted my chickens before they were hatched.

I thought with 3 years left, nobody with a finished ship, and alliances with everyone but one, there was no way of losing. I was wrong.

Damn sneak attacks! Ship got destroyed in the last year.

Ribannah · June 18, 2001, 16:49

Quote:

Originally posted by solo
A good reason to get yourself a copy of 2.42

It is not possible to downgrade MGE to 2.42.

Scouse Gits · June 19, 2001, 06:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Ribannah
It is not possible to downgrade MGE to 2.42.

True ...

Quote:

Originally posted by solo
A good reason to get yourself a copy of 2.42

Bird · June 19, 2001, 14:05

Samson: How did you manage to keep the ai from successfully attacking your city? I'm surprised some tanks never showed up, or at least cavalry units. A couple of bombers and a paratrooper would have been it. A chariot defender.... hehehe.

Good job though. Looking forward to trying this.

samson · June 19, 2001, 14:26

Bird,

I spent 20 years after launch sabotaging the Egyptian cities - destroying manf. plants, factories, offshore platforms, etc. They had to disband most of their offensive units because they couldn't support them. Just had a solo bomber that kept attacking every other turn. For awhile my city was defended only by escaping spies. Eventually they did muster out a few tanks, but by then I had howies to chase them off.

Ribannah,

You can install both MGE and V242 on the same machine without conflict.

Solo,

Our games played out quite differently. In mine, the Japanese were pounded into a corner by the English.

I played a pretty straightforward OCC strategy, barely getting Colossus before the AI, and then never giving away Wonder techs (Medicine, Astronomy, Gravity) until I had built that Wonder. I got techs and gifts from the AI, but nothing like what you describe. Most of my research was done at home, but some key techs did come in trade. Still, I gave away more techs than I got, I think.

solo · June 19, 2001, 16:15

Ribannah,

Yes, I have both games on my machine, too. No conflicts as they install in different folders. Try it, you'll like it.

samson,

Most of my techs came through barter, and the AI learned Astronomy before I did. I thought I'd get the whole tech tree by 1000 AD, because the early pace of tech acquistion was torrid. However, after awhile all the trading slowed everyone down, and Fundamentalism brought learning almost to a halt when a few of the AI went for that kind of government. Gifts, though, were like in the size 4 game. Once you are pathetic, which is pretty darned soon, the AI on your continent all want alliances. The gold keeps coming and coming!

Shakespeare's is a must though, and I just barely beat out the Indians for it as my first wonder.

Smash · June 20, 2001, 05:00

Finally got round to trying this and its pretty tough so far.280AD and I got Shake's but thats it.Size 12 just waiting for Sani.Researching Engineering but the AI has been the source of most tech and will probably get Sani thru them.
Only contacted 3 so far but they are whizzing along.
I have 28 tech and Egypt has 30 as the tech leader as far as I can tell.
3 alliances are proving lucrative but one ally is shrinking under Celtic onslaught.Can't wait to meet them.

Took forever to get out of despo which made unhappiness a little tricky to control.A short period in Monarchy then Republic was much better.

Didn't like what happened when I Built a caravel after Shake's.+5 is strong!

I took a very leisurely approach and it is quite fun.I'm just trying to stay out of the way and maybe rely on trickery and see what happens.
I'm not terribly optimistic

Ribannah · June 20, 2001, 07:53

Samson, Solo, the problem is not installing Civ 2.42, the problem is acquiring it.
While large quantities of Civ 1 can still be found, I have not seen the non-multiplayer Civ 2 anywhere for many years.

samson · June 20, 2001, 09:40

I'm beginning to think Colossus is the key to +5. I built it in 925BC, which is pretty late. I was about 3/4 done when the Indians warned of their near completion. Fortunately, I had enough cash to rush-build it. I had just gone Republic, was at size 4, and the big C helped me celebrate up. A dozen turns later I had 3 trade routes into Alexandria, was working on Cope's and was the tech leader. Trouble with the Colossus is, a lot of civs start out with BW. And if they go for it early, you've got no chance.

solo · June 20, 2001, 11:37

Ribannah,

I had trouble locating it, too, but it looks like they have it right now at Amazon.com, which I reached via a link from civfanatics.com, where it's called the "jewell case" edition.

Looking in stores was useless, but online shopping should net you a copy. If you still can not find it, let me know, and I'll get another and send it to you!

solo

TCO · June 20, 2001, 22:07

I assume the jewel case edition is a copy of the Cd with no manual or poster.

solo · June 20, 2001, 22:56

GP,

Probably, since the price is only $9.99

Smash,

Your game sounds a lot like mine so far. The speed of AI development seems intimidating, but as usual, they just don't get it. As in lower levels, whenever they have a clear and huge advantage, they beg for peace!