The Making of Jutland! - Page 2

Boco · June 27, 2001, 23:20

Berzerker, I think you're on the right track. Personally, I'd prefer DD=1h, CL=2h, CA=2h, Invincible=2h, Lion=3h, German BC's=3h, which is pretty close to what you have.

Most important is that these values yield historical results. Though some civ whiz can probably calculate outcome probabilities, it's going to take mortals some 1-on-1 and 1-on-2 testing to confirm. A single German BC should be able to sink any British BC most of the time. A single newer German BC (Derrflinger and perhaps Seydlitz) should also have a ~25-50% chance of sinking to 2 older British BC's (Invincible class) in a turn. As you mention, 3-4 ships of a smaller class should be able to knock off a heavier ship (e.g. CL vs CA, or CA vs BC), particularly if they have the speed advantage.

You are probably on to something about wanting to get to Jutland. Since there can't be any battle outcomes that leave both ships afloat, the Civ2 engine is going to have a tough time simulating running gun battle that spans several turns. Unfortunately, the Dogger Bank chase was exactly that. It can be argued that Jutland was also a series of running gun battles, but at least it had the potential of becoming a knockout slugfest.

JMarks · June 27, 2001, 23:24

Boco,

Sure, half hour turns may make for a short game for Dogger, but since it is a small battle that may be justified.

Besides, this is a prelude for Jutland itself. We need to keep a scale in mind anyway, that was my main concern.

Also, once I get to Bulcher, I will post it. I'll do that next in fact, but only when I get a chance to do it.

Sure, you can use my units, as long as A. you credit them (Ioanes Shrader sounds nice) and B. you keep the trigram in there.

If you want to use them to create your own I can't stop you.

Ioanes

Boco · June 27, 2001, 23:27

Quote:

Personally, I'd prefer DD=1h, CL=2h, CA=2h, Invincible=2h, Lion=3h, German BC's=3h, which is pretty close to what you have.

Oops!

Personally, I'd prefer DD=1h, CL=2h, CA=3h, Invincible=3h, Lion=4h, German BC's=4h, which is pretty close to what you have.

Boco · June 27, 2001, 23:50

Ioanes,

I think I'm coming around to your conclusion about time. If we had 10 minute turns, half the fleet would be sunk within 10 minutes of contact. Talk about rewriting history!

Regarding the icons - thanks. No problem with the conditions. In fact, the logo is kinda slick. Little chance of my doing serious editing - preschoolers are better artists than me. If you haven't found a pic already, here's a line drawing of the SMS Blucher.

If you have a VRML add-in and a v1.0 converter on your browser the following link gives you virtual 3D models (i.e. can be turned, rotated, etc.) of 8 wwi ship classes (from DD to BC)

. Too many details are lost when you shrink them to Civ2 dimensions.

http://www.worldwar1.com/vrml.htm

JMarks · June 28, 2001, 14:52

The Bulcher!
[IMG]D:\Games\mps\Civilization II Multiplayer Gold Edition\SCENARIO\Dreadnaught\Bulcher.bmp[/IMG]

Anyone know how big this thing was compared to other BC's? I may have made it a bit big...

Ioanes

Berzerker · June 29, 2001, 07:05

JMarks - I dont know the length of the Blucher but it was 15,500 tons compared to the BC's which were 22,000-27,000 tons. It also had 7 in belt armor compared to the 10-12 in belt armor of the German BC's. So it's clearly smaller than the BC's, why in the hell did the Germans send it out with the faster BC's?

Boco - Just a note, if we give the German BC's 4 hit points, the real Battlewagons will have to have 5 to 6 hit points. I don't know if this will matter, but the AC and BB in Civ II each have 4 hit points - not that we have to stick with that

JMarks · June 29, 2001, 08:57

Berserker,

Yes, it does seem to be smaller in that sense, but all I need to know is roughly how much shorter? I may want to redraw (I know some areas on that that I can cut back on) the beast, but tonnage, I don't think, tells the whole story.

Ioanes

Berzerker · June 29, 2001, 09:17

Okay, the Blucher was 530 ft and the Seydlitz was 656 ft.

http://warship.simplenet.com

seems like a good site

JMarks · June 29, 2001, 09:36

Guess I don't need to make it too much shorter!

JMarks · June 29, 2001, 10:03

OK, the shorter (but not too much shorter) Bulcher:

[IMG]D:\Games\mps\Civilization II Multiplayer Gold Edition\SCENARIO\Dreadnaught\Bulcher 2.bmp[/IMG]

JMarks · June 29, 2001, 12:59

The remake of the Lion:
[IMG]D:\Games\mps\Civilization II Multiplayer Gold Edition\SCENARIO\Dreadnaught\Lion.bmp[/IMG]

From now on, I think I'll be posting a bunch of units together.

Ioanes

The ANZAC · June 29, 2001, 14:18

JMarks, I'm interested in seeing your work, but all I see are red x's for the unit posts since your posting of the Indomitable. What's wrong, is it me or something else?

Henrik · June 29, 2001, 14:22

I cannot see the images either

JMarks · June 30, 2001, 00:12

I don't know whats up with the graphics... other could see it, and others could only see them sporadicly.

Where you able to get the download of any of the previous ones? If so, I'll post them as downloads too, just in case you can't see them.

Ioanes

Berzerker · June 30, 2001, 17:52

Yup, the last 2 are red X's

JMarks · June 30, 2001, 20:45

Ok, does this work?

Ioanes

Jimmywax · June 30, 2001, 20:49

Nope, try again.

JMarks · June 30, 2001, 20:56

:Ripping out hair: Why is this not working? I'll just post them so you guys can download them.

Case · July 1, 2001, 00:36

That works, and the units show up without needing to download them.

The ANZAC · August 22, 2001, 11:23

So any progress on this? Are there any new developments with this scenario? Also you might want to look at Scott F's secret project thread. It has some useful WWI ships and people who can make them.

Berzerker · August 23, 2001, 00:02

JMarks is making the "Dogger Bank" scenario. Haven't heard how he is coming along on that one. But hopefully someone can still make the Jutland scenario, JMarks said he might once he's done with Dogger Bank...