Another little cheat -- that extra move

[tobyr]

This note is addressed to those of you who are not averse to reloading the game if you do not like the result you get from opening a hut. Here's another way to get an advantage by reloading the game -- I'm almost too embarrassed to admit I sometimes do this, does anyone else? Here we go:

Let's say you have a unit with a move allowance of 2. You move it one square, and now you try to move it onto a square requiring a move allowance of more than 1. In some cases it's random whether you will be allowed to move your unit or not.

Similarly, you move a unit along a road (1/3 of your allowancw of 1). You now try to move it to a "normal" square. It's sometimes random whether you will succeed or not.

This move may be critical to (rushing to defend something), so: save the game, try to move, reload, try to move again...

Oh it's too pitiful for words, isn't it?

- toby


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toby robison
criticalpaths@mindspring.com

[The Mad Monk]

It's pathetic!


...and yes, I do it too...

[Ming]

I used to do it when all I was doing was competing with my brother for high scores. We used EVERY cheat we could find.

But now, it just takes too much time to reset, and it slows down the game Plus, it wouldn't be considered legal for any of the SP challanges...

[SCG]

Well, i tend to build roads almost constantly, so I don't have a whole lot of times when that comes up. When it does, I tend to micromanage the movement. If its a settler/engineer, I'll just prework something. If its a freight/caravan/diplomat etc I'll use the hit and miss effects to create a long string of units that ignore ZoC through enemy/unknown territory. (ie keep them from being stacked too high, and allow for other units to be able to move into the nearby squares in the event of the AI objecting to my travels. If its a military unit, I'll look at various possible routes (if any) and figure out which one would get me the farthest (or see the most) in each case (all succede, all fail, etc) and choose accordingly.

[East Street Trader]

Been there, done that, got the "pathetic" T shirt.

But not for quite a bit because, like Ming, and I expect some other of us addicts I have grown to value pace (and variety for that matter) above advancing my prospects at some particular moment during the unfolding of the game.

Used to feel the tug of re-loading sometimes when a plan I'd been working on for a while was about to be frustrated by some event or other; especially when the event has been ludicrously against the odds. Also when I'd commited some particularly idiotic howler which, for a while, spoils the enjoyment I can take in that game.

But then I played SMAC and found I liked hardman. You can duplicate that in part in Civ 2 by playing with the autosave button off. Since doing that I find I enjoy the game more. But I'm having to remember to re-enable autosave when trying a single city challenge.

By the way, what is the general view about pre-working settlers/engineers? I hadn't discovered that ploy under my own steam and first learnt of it in these threads or from Civ Universe. I'm certainly finding it useful but it seems a touch artificial. Are there people who agree not to have it in multi-player?

[SCG]

I personally see nothing wrong with preworking settlers/engineers. I see it as doing the paperwork, gathering supplies, and even prefabricating of certain key elements. To use a real life example, in Pittsburgh, PA (USA), they are planning on replacing a really old dam on the Monongahela river. What they are doing is building the dam elsewhere, and then floating it to the spot on the river where they have been building the locks. Then they plan to sink the dam in place. Obviously some work must be done on site, but then that is what the last turn is for.

[Ming]

I'm sure you will find somebody that thinks pre-working an engineer/settler is cheating.

But I've never had anybody raise that when discussing the rules for a MP game.
To me, it's like incremental buying... I just don't see the problem with it.

[SCG]

for those that consider it cheating (if any), how would one deal with a situation where an emergency arises: say a mine gets pillaged, and you have the choice of 1)losing units supported by that mine (possibly including the settlers), 2) operating at a food deficit that would in a turn or 2 result in famine and loss of settlers/engineers, or 3) taking those settlers from a couple of spaces away that are half-way through irrigating a swamp and setting them towards finishing the mine. Assume settlers are too far away from another city to be rehomed in time, same with other units (or perhaps are involved in a key defensive fortification and cannot be moved) If the settlers die, all that work on the swamp is lost completely, since the settlers store work units instead of the land (personally think it should be a combination of the 2)

There certainly are other situations (pollution) where the decision may be needed. After all it was because of situations like these that i first learned that settlers stored the work instead of the land in the first place, and in Civ I, ever discovered that settlers could continue building railroads even after a space was already railroaded. (happened when i had a swamp being irrigated, and railroads being built at the same time, the swamp was finished before the railroad and 2 of the settlers build the road and railroad instantly, while the 3rd settler building a road happily continued with a big R on him for about 5 more turns before i figured that he wasn't going to activate on his own )

[Ming]

Well SCG... the people that would consider it cheating would just say "tough luck"

[SCG]

I was kind of hoping for something like I would disband this unit or that unit or i would found a dummy city or i would let them starve etc

personally, I always micromanage my settlers. I try and keep track of how many preworked turns each has and corrilate that with how many spaces it takes to reach their destination and if they will have too much work on them or not etc. Usually its not that big of a deal because as my I build my infrastructure as i found my cities and so there is always something for the settlers to do enroute to their target, and at key tech levels (republic/monarchy, bridgebuilding, railroad, refrigeration etc) my settlers will drop everything and focus on single tasks.

[N35t0r]

Yes, i thought about it, but i'm WAY to lazy to do it!

[vik]

damn! my settler won't build a dam. I hit the "D" button, but I do not get a damn dam.

Personally, I think they got it backwards. I think the work should stay with the land, not with the settler.

For instance, if your settler gets whacked by a barbarian just before he completes a mining operation, the next settler unit you move in ought to be able to pick up the mining where the deceased unit had left off.

I happen to do it occassionally, but it is mostly on accident. I don't know how to un-prework a settler I just bribed from the English. I don't set up a strategy that revolves around pre-worked settlers as it appears some do. It just happens sometimes.


Edit: Hmmm, maybe I'll start using "Shift-D" to build dams. That oughtta work!
[This message has been edited by vik (edited July 06, 2000).]

[SCG]

*grin* you could apply the dam idea to building bridges There are other examples that could be brought up as well. When I was in Hawaii, I visited a farm where they were experimenting with subsistance irrigation in dry (almost desertlike) environs. It involved taking lots of tubing and cutting small holes in it to allow water to drip out in short intervals. A lot of the work was in making the tubing, while some was in laying it out across the fields. I'm sure with effort you can come up with other examples for different tasks of the settlers.

I also agree with you, vik, in terms of the land should keep track of the work done at times too, as stated earlier in this thread. My way to fix that would be for the land to remember should the settlers be killed, otherwise have the settlers remember. Of course there are other ways to deal with it, one of them being having a menu pop up when you activate a working settler, or perhaps keep a table of each type of work the settler has done. *wonders if this should become a new thread*

[The Mad Monk]

quote: I'm sure you will find somebody that thinks pre-working an engineer/settler is cheating.

*looks around for Alexander's Horse*

[SCG]

quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk on 07-06-2000 12:02 PM *looks around for Alexander's Horse*

guess I haven't read enough of AH's posts? I would have thought someone would bring up Venger first. Of course I tend to make a distinction between handicaping and cheating. Preworking of settlers is allowed in both Civ I and Civ II. the instant completion of Civ I was removed, indicating it as a cheat, while preworking was kept. To not allow yourself to prework settlers would be handicapping from my point of view and might be part of some of the challenges we currently have listed here

[Hasdrubal]

Deletable double post.
[This message has been edited by Hasdrubal (edited July 06, 2000).]

[Hasdrubal]

Actually, I refused to use pre-working settlers, thinking it was kind of cheating and unrealistic in real-life.

quote: Originally posted by SCG on 07-05-2000 01:36 PM I see it as doing the paperwork, gathering supplies, and even prefabricating of certain key elements. To use a real life example, in Pittsburgh, PA (USA), is building the dam elsewhere, and then floating it to the spot on the river where they have been building the locks. Then they plan to sink the dam in place. Obviously some work must be done on site, but then that is what the last turn is for.

But this made me change my mind.



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Hasdrubal's Home.
Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam.

[My Wife Hates CIV]

A question about settlers and work. Is work specific to what they are building or is it just general work? By that I mean if I set a settler to build a fort on a mountain (pre work him), can I than go and build a mine somewhere else with that work? I've never tried this as I only use the pre work thing for forts. I've never tried it with mines because... well, why? just build the mine where you want it in the first place.

[Paul]

The settler just remembers the time he spent. You can switch to anything you want. That's nice when you are researching refrigeration. I start a settler on mining a grassland and when I get refrigeration I switch him to making farmland.

[SCG]

quote: Originally posted by My Wife Hates CIV on 07-07-2000 10:11 AM ... can I than go and build a mine somewhere else with that work? I've never tried this as I only use the pre work thing for forts. I've never tried it with mines because... well, why? just build the mine where you want it in the first place.

that falls back to the original thought of the thread - what do you do when you are under 1 in movement and your unit (in this case a settler) isn't to where he wants to be. the rest of it is dealing with why preworking of settlers is a viable option

[SandMonkey]

quote: Originally posted by My Wife Hates CIV on 07-07-2000 10:11 AM I've never tried it with mines because... well, why? just build the mine where you want it in the first place.

I use it with pollution. If i am building a rail or something, and pollution pops up next to it, i just activate the engineer or settler, and plop him down on the pollution. Bang it's gone right away.

[Ken Hinds]

SandMonkey, is that why sometimes it takes a turn or two to clear a polluted square and others it is immediate? I never paid attention to when I got which results. I just thought it was another of those random items in the game.

Ken

[SandMonkey]

No, Ken, pollution cleanup isn't random. It takes 4 turns with a Settler and 2 turns with an Engineer. Obviously, it takes 1 turn with two engineers, and also 1 turn if the Engineer was pre-worked.

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SandMonkey

"Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a qtip"
-Homer Simpson

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Check out my 1602 A.D. site

[Jim W]

quote: Originally posted by East Street Trader on 07-05-2000 01:06 PM By the way, what is the general view about pre-working settlers/engineers? I hadn't discovered that ploy under my own steam and first learnt of it in these threads or from Civ Universe. I'm certainly finding it useful but it seems a touch artificial. Are there people who agree not to have it in multi-player?

Okay, so now there's something else I didn't know! What is pre-working? I could always hope that it's something I've discovered for myself using a different term, but I doubt that.

Jim W

[SCG]

quote: What is pre-working?

preworking is simply reactivating a settler/engineer before he completes his current task. He will remember the number of turns he has already completed and apply it to his next job. I will use it if my settlers are travelling down a road and run out of movement before they reach their destination (complete some of the project enroute) or sometimes if i want a particular settler/engineer to be the one to complete a particular task. (any number of reasons for doing that)

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*sounds of applause and cheers*
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[My Wife Hates CIV]

For those wondering about this...

The best time to use this 'feature' is for offense (or really needed defense). Take a settler and place him on a mountain. Build a fortress for 2 turns. Now, before he's done with the fortress, move him to where you really want the improvement. You can build the fortress instantly without having to wait until the next turn. Makes taking cities very easy as you will not have an entire stack destroyed.