Republic First

[Matthew]

I havebeen experimenting a bit, and I'm beginning to see why Republic first is a viable alternative to Monarchy first in 1x1x. It does take one more tech to get to republic. Just as when going to monarchy you will almost always need to research a tech which doesn't lead directly to your goal. Of course if you happen to discover writing from a hut on your way to Monarchy this becomes a somewhat moot point, especial;ly if you already gave another tech that doesn't lead directly to Monarchy. You don't get marshall law, and you have a higher support cost. And since Ceremonial burial is not directly on course to republic, you need to deviate for that as well.

Now what are some advantages?

As long as you always have 2 drade producing roads per city that doesn't have a trade special, you can generally keep a size 2 city happy enough with 30 % luxuries. Size 3 cities with 2 trade specials, 40%. Sounds like a lot, I know. But we shall see that it is actually not that bad of deal.

1. You now don't need the troops in your cities for martial law. Instead of quickly spending 20 to 30 shields for warriors, spend 40 for a temple sooner. Granted, that's not millitarily sound, but since most people rely on warriors for martial law at this point anyway, what's the difference?

2. even at 30% luxuries, with roads now producing twice as much trade, and 2 roaded squares plus the original city square for a size 2 city, that's 4 trade per city after luxuries instead of 3 in Monarchy.

3. Less waste as well. In Monarchy, even on a medium size map, and especially on a small map, you don't need to be that far from your capital before you start getting waste. In republic, less waste. you can use thatextra shield or 2 to support a good military unit in your outer cities.

4. 10 (I believe) cities before the first problem with extra unhappiness as opposed to 6 or 7 that you would get in Monarchy. And if you are really into early expansion, the onset of the double unhappies is actually a blessing in republic, at least for cities of size 2at least.

5. In general getting to republic involves 2 revolutions. If you go straight to republic, you only have to revolt once.

6. Granted, you will start out with a bunch of size 2 cities. But once they get to size 3 with temples, they are just 3 turns from size 5.


Definitely in many circumstances a quick republic could be synonymous with a quick demise. (IE, lot's of unfriendlies nearby, bad goodie huts an even bigger problem than in Monarchy, etc) But a good civ player is also a flexible civ player, and should be able to use early republic to great advantage under the right circumstances. The trick is knowing when.

[finbar]

A number of players go straight to Republic. Shield support can be a problem in the early days.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[Smash]

It is viable on deity but you usually have to cut er lean on defense.Unless I get a bunch of non units I don't feel safe in a regular game(barbs) let alone in a MP game.I tend to go overboard on military units and that can be a problem for a 1x Republic if you can't immediately celebrate to 7 or 8..It is quite good on lower levels with the added content citizens.If you can broker TOTAL peace for awhile then it can be a very good plan.

[Ming]

Early republic isn't all that bad if you aren't at war with somebody, or if the barbs aren't all over you. But, I like to defend myself in games, so I very seldom consider it too early since it can kill your production capability if you have a real standing army.

A lot of non units early does make the temptation great, because there are a lot of advantages to it. But, all it takes is one nasty neighbor or an unexpected barb invasion, and you can be in serious trouble.

[Novi Nomad]

I've never been too high on Republics... With Each military unit requiring a shield for support, and an additional food unit required for a settler, this government just seems too restrictive. Lately, I've been going to Communism from Monarchy. It doesn't kill your science like fundy does, the unhappiness factor doesn't kill you like it does in Democracies/Republics and the support factor isn't as harsh...

[inca911]

For anyone confused, I gave Ming the credit for the post that Xin made regarding Marketplaces over Temples (see 2 posts ago). I edited my post, but not before Ming penned his reply correctly giving Xin his due. If only Ming weren't so vigilantly watching everything I write!

[SCG]

I think one of the biggest benefits of Monarchy over Republic is that you can demand tribute. I myself haven't quite got the hang of doing that without starting a war.

I personally compose my military of several key defense units, a couple key attack units and as many diplomats and caravans that I can build. If push comes to shove, I usually can buy off a strategic attack unit and kill off a stack or 2 surrounding it. If the new unit survives the retaliation, all the better, if not, well, he served is purpose - to allow me to rush build whatever that city needed (attack, defence, city walls, barracks, etc), while the AI's advance forces need to spend an extra turn or 2 to again be in range of my city. Republic allows me to bring in the money i need to do that, as well as allow me to grow and research at a much faster rate.

[arii]

Early republic is great given the right conditions:
you don't get side tracked on your tech pathway by techs from hutts
you don't have a warmonger as your neighbour
you don't expand too fast
you have a very good shoot at building the HG 1st

The problem is if you don't get a happy wonder quickly you will fall behind the monarchies (at the deity level)

[inca911]

Well, it typically comes down to this for me:
If I am isolated, or if I possess a very strong defensive boundry on my border most likely to be attacked (both of these scenarios emcompass about 90% of my games), I take my chances and go Republic because of the great trade/science boost (I don't play much MP, but you likely won't get away with such limited defense as I propose in that arena). I will disband the martial law units for use building marketplaces, leaving one defender in each city (phalanx or pikeman) and one attacking 2 movement unit (typically an Elephant) and a diplo per every two/three cities connected by roads. I station the diplo in the least likely to be attcked city that can reach two other cities within 1 2/3 movement (so I have 1/3 movement left to bribe!) and an Elephant in the other cities most likely to be attacked with this reasoning:
If the barbs arrive by sea and drop by, they typically don't attack immediately because of movement limitiations in the early game. If they land next to any Elephant city, I stomp them and/or move the diplo to convert them for later disbandment. If they arrive next to the diplo city, which is very hard to do because of its interior location, then I either have to bribe them, or mount an 2/3 strength Elephant attack.
Staying in Monarchy is great if you want wars and tribute, but the drawbacks to Trade are too great for my playing style to bear. The production drawback is easily remedied by the influx of gold and the use of WLT*D to grow population onto more shield producting squares. The faster you discover Monotheism, the more easy Republic becomes, and the best way to get to Mono first is to switch into Republic ASAP. You may have to limit expansion after the switch, but with the boost to the Treasury via greater Trade, city bribery becomes a very efficient method to grow your empire. One last item, Xin Yu once gave a great explanation about use of Marketplaces instead of Temples with respect to Happiness, Luxury Rates and the general economy, but I cannot find it (edited, I found it)!
Here is a repost of some comments on happiness made by Xin Yu that I believe are of great value. Thanks Xin!:

There are two levels of disorder control: global and local. Do the global first until most of your cities are OK, then deal with the few problematic ones.
First, choose the government. If most of your cities can grow using 'WLTKD' then obviously you should choose democracy or republic. The former is preferred since the courthouse gives one more happy citizen (crucial if you play deity and have a little bit more than a dozen of cities) and has no corruption. In other cases it's a trade-off between more trade vs. losing martial-law/free support and unhappiness due to troop out of city. Basically you add the increased trade for democracy/republic (adjusted for city improvements and trade route revenues), and compare with the total of lost martial-law luxuries (12 for commie, 6 for monarchy, 2xpopulation for fundy in deity), supporting shields (3 shields=6 taxs), and the out of city unhappiness (1 unhappy=2 luxuries). I would choose fundy or commie in the early ages but go to democracy when I can build superhighways. I may stay in commie/fundy if playing 2x production.
Second, decide the luxury rate. Since science rate can be set to zero (you use caravans to get sciences, hire one scientist), it's a split between tax and luxury.
Third, build improvements. For bigger cities, prefer marketplaces to temples, banks to cathedrals due to the following reason: a
temple with mysticism keeps two citizens content, which is equivalent to 4 luxury. A marketplace increased both tax and luxury
by 50%, so if you originally have 8 trade icons or more your total tax+luxury is better with a marketplace than with a temple. Same
for banks vs. cathedrals. Of course wonders are different--they cost less and need no maintainence.
Fourth, use martial law.
Fifth, use Elvis if necessary.
Sixth, assign your troops properly in democracy/republic to reduce unhappyness. Two wonders can help: Shakespear and J.Bach. Actually the latter is better. If you have J. Bach, build a city on a mined hills and put a worker on another mined hills.
Keep the city at size one, and with factories, hydro plant, and manufacturing plant it can support tons of units. It will not go riot due to JB's effect.
[This message has been edited by inca911 (edited July 17, 2000).]

[Ming]

Added after you edited your post: Yes... Xin wrote that one!

As much as I would like to take credit, it wasn't I that posted the "marketplace" discussion. As a matter of fact, after reading it, I have since changed my strategy to marketplaces first, unless I really need the science in a key city or two.

I'll see if I can find it.

Oh, and I'm a firm believer of the mono to communism switch. If I'm not ready to take advantage of WLYD's... I'll go into communism until I can (assuming SOL )
[This message has been edited by Ming (edited July 17, 2000).]