A question about highscores (and some other stuff)

[Chainsaw]

Let´s assume one has conquered the planet. Let´s assume, he has placed cities on 95% of the landmass.
Let´s go some further, and say that he (she) has put farmland everywehere, built the SS ready for launch and is now pressing Enter all the time.
To put it short, let´s say you´ve finished and want to maximize your score.
Would it be conform to the conventions to set the luxuries up to a point where you still get advances every turn and make enough surplus to have an acceptable treasury, for example Tax20%,Sci20%,Lux60%,
just to get the maximum number of happy citizens (points)? Would this be considered kind of unfair, unrealistic or sth else and have effect on the acknowledgement of the final score?

Second question: How do I find out what version of civ2 I call my own?

Third question: Concerning the techs being given at the start: Is there any civ that gets more techs than the other civs, just because its this one particular civ?

Fourth Question: A friend recently told me, that he had noticed that units that attack from terrain square with a high defensive bonus do win easier than units attaking from a square with a smaller def-bonus.
Has anyone notice sth like taht, too? I ask, because I have never noticed sth like this and doubt that.

[Ming]

Luxuries should always be set on max for the turn you are going to win to give you the highest possible ammount of happy/content people. When people were playing for points, this was considered standard practice

Go to the patches on this site, or at microprose.com and just load the latest patch... then it won't matter what you have now

If there is... nobody has been able to prove it.

You point on attacking from good defensive terrain has been raised before. I think somebody did some tests to prove that it just isn't true. The tests show that the terrain of the attacker had no effect on the combat, and follows what the rules say

[Chainsaw]

Wow...THIS I call a quick answer...thanx alot!
One thing left to be cleared: You said, that luxuries should have been turned to the max. Does this mean 100%, or what I described in my question?

[Paul]

On your last turn you can set your luxuries to 100%. That way you know for sure that you have the maximum amount of happy people. The spaceship will arrive before the rest of the turn is executed, so a tax and science rate wouldn't have an effect on the last turn anyway.

[Scouse Gits]

Version - look at the menu Game | Game Options and then look at the top of the pop-up window it contains the exact game version you are playing. If this is standard Civ II it should be v2.42 if you are playing a version earlier than this you need the patch - this fixes loads of bugs.

As far as the starting techs are concerned it is dependent upon the initial choice of Civ - to some extent for example - if you want masonry choose Egyptians - watch this space for more interesting revelations.
______________
The SGs in concert (available at all good record stores)

[SCG]

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 07-21-2000 05:12 PM If this is standard Civ II it should be v2.42 if you are playing a version earlier than this you need the patch - this fixes loads of bugs.

I wouldn't say you need the 2.42. It does fix a few bugs, but it also introduces some new ones (settlers able to irrigate without water, and the user able to see location and numbering of continents).

now that I know how to find the version, I'll look and see what version i actually have when I get home (file is dated 4/3/96 - over 4 months before the 8/10/96 of 2.42)

quote: The SGs in concert (available at all good record stores)

I still want to know where I can get the T-shirt

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April Cantor: Sire, in order to expand further we must first gain favor of the King

SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince

*goes off and starts gifting gold and techs*

[Ken Hinds]

SCG,

Just a slight correction on your post about 2.42 and new bugs. Settlers irrigating without water is not a bug. This according to the readme this was a request fix. People wanted to automate the Settler and not have to move and give commands all the time. In response the "K" automate command was provided. This turns the settler over to the AI and just like AI settlers don't need water yours no longer will either. If you check the revised manual and Prima Strategy Guide that came out with v2.42 you will see that the continent number is an intended feature not a bug. If you happen to view these as cheats then don't use them.

Ken

[SCG]

Hmm, I must have an older manual with my 2.42. I can't find any reference to the 'K' command anywhere (i don't even use goto, so no worries about me using 'k' ) As for the continent number, I don't think it is supposed to show up in the unexplored areas - that part I would consider a bug.

well, just guessing from the patch.txt file on the CD, I think I have 1.06 at home, i know its less than 1.08.

And as one other side note, that patch.txt file is pretty informative anyone remember the one fellow who had his prince game timewarp backwards from early AD to mid BC? that was fixed by patch 1.07

[jpk]

Chainsaw, once you get to the late stage of the game you can set your tax rate to 0%. Build airports everywhere, have your cities build lots of nonfood freight units, fly them half way around the world to another one of your cities and deliver it on the next turn. Hopefully the receiving city will need the freight item. If not deliver it anyway.

If you have lots of cities, then eventually you will not be able to spend all the money you get.

[Chainsaw]

quote: Originally posted by jpk on 07-21-2000 12:47 PM Chainsaw, once you get to the late stage of the game you can set your tax rate to 0%. Build airports everywhere, have your cities build lots of nonfood freight units, fly them half way around the world to another one of your cities and deliver it on the next turn. Hopefully the receiving city will need the freight item. If not deliver it anyway. If you have lots of cities, then eventually you will not be able to spend all the money you get.

Hm...I see that I will have tons of money that way, but in the late stage, when the slaughtering is done, I usually switch to democracy to max my population. I guess my empire would drown in anarchy when I would set luxuries to 0%?

[Paul]

If you want the highest possible score you should set your luxuries to such a level that your cities are celebrating WLTPD. With three trade routes per city, the happy wonders and enough money to rush your marketplaces, banks, stock exchanges, colosseums, aqueducts and sewer systems your cities should quickly grow to maximum size at 20 or 30% luxuries.

[Smash]

.....and then use food caravans to swell your population levels beyond what food surplus allows.

[SandMonkey]

What are the exact units which cause unhappiness in democracy? I know bombers do. I didn't think any land based units did. They only cause it when they're out of the city. Same with boats.

------------------
SandMonkey

"Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a qtip"
-Homer Simpson

"Ecky ecky ecky!"
"It's just a flesh wound!"
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Check out my 1602 A.D. site

[Paul]

jpk, 10,000/21 < 255 ? Maybe you need a new calculator. Mine says that 10,000/21 = 476.

Sandmonkey, Bombers, Stealth Bombers, Helicopters, Cruise Missiles and Nukes cause unhappy citizens even when they are not in the field.

[Chainsaw]

jpk:

Ohh...the TAX-rate. Ok. Maybe some practical exercices in reading would help...The mystery seems to unveil...
Yep. You really get a helluv money that way...but, trouble with money at the late stage, hehe, what the heck?

Yes, I noticed the thing about the two advancements per turn, too. But it also worked *sometimes* without the freights. Maybe its the large sience surplus that fills up the window with the flasks two times, e.g. if you had the window almost full at the end of a turn?

I have a standart map of big size. 210 (209??) cities bow down to HIS feet... (hope every last one of them will grow to max size until the end, placed the latest in 1990, had to push growth by sending engineers in).

Smash:
Now about the food caravans. I read about that trick in the OCC-rules.
How EXACTLY does it work? When I looked at daniel T´s game (DAMN! How can an human being beat 2243% AND remain sane?!?!), obviously, the cities have grown over their regular max size. I consider this kinda strange, maybe not against any rules, but it seems to me that this procedure, hm, distorts the game. You have cities that can´t produce enough food to keep their size. If you´d keep SOME cities "alive" like this, it would be OK, but by having all cities been fed by each other, you kinda create food out of nothing. In my eyes, that is strange. But as I said, I don´t know exactly how it works.
(Yes, I know, there must be a thread about this *somewhere*)
I have never used food caravans, and I won´t use them in that way.

Good night, finally, I will get SOME sleep...like four hours

One last thing to ask:
What is that stuff about dividing the number of map squares? Do you get the max number of cities that way? Is it not possible to place more than that? (More! MORE! HARR HARR HARR!)

[SCG]

quote: Yes, I noticed the thing about the two advancements per turn, too. But it also worked *sometimes* without the freights. Maybe its the large sience surplus that fills up the window with the flasks two times, e.g. if you had the window almost full at the end of a turn?

with enough large cities, you can get a lot more than 2 techs per turn. with around 160 or so cities of varying amounts of development, I've managed to get 4 techs per turn without much trouble. If you set tax science to 0% and remove all scientists, you can see how many beakers (total, including what you have already accumulated) it takes to get your next discovery. If you then turn set science to near max and taxes to 0, you can look on F5 to see how many beakers you can actually bring in. if it is more than what you need, you will likely get multiple discoveries per turns.

quote: One last thing to ask: What is that stuff about dividing the number of map squares? Do you get the max number of cities that way? Is it not possible to place more than that? (More! MORE! HARR HARR HARR!)

the idea is that each city takes 21 squares. so dividing the total # of squares (10000 for large maps) by the number of squares a city needs without overlapping (21), you get the maximum number of non-overlapping cities. Since 476 is a lot greater than the code limit of 255 cities - even with lots of water, you should have no problem founding the maximum number of cities given the time and patience to do so.

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April Cantor: Sire, in order to expand further we must first gain favor of the King

SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince

*goes off and starts gifting gold and techs*

[SandMonkey]

So Chainsaw, are we going to see you going for some records here? For deity (even if their names aren't listed here at apolyton), I think Ming or rah have the record. It's something astronomically high, and not many people go for that record as it takes SOOO long to do.

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SandMonkey

"Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a qtip"
-Homer Simpson

"Ecky ecky ecky!"
"It's just a flesh wound!"
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Check out my 1602 A.D. site

[jpk]

Chainsaw:

Set your TAX rate to 0%, not your luxury rate. If you really can't build any more cities and all of your cities have the maximum population, then your only hope for getting more points is to get lots of future technologies. The endless streams of freight units will help. Fool around with your science rate. Sometimes it is possible to have the cities generate more than one science per turn. If you then fill up the science box by using science bonuses from freight units you will be able to get two sciences per turn.

Out of curiosity, how big is your map. I often play on maps with 10,000 squares and I can't imagine filling one with cities. Since

10,000/21 < 255,

it would be possible I suppose.

[joew]

Be sure to scrap cruise missiles, helicopters, howitzers, and any other units that make unhappy citizens.

[Chainsaw]

Nah, I don´t think I will manage anything really great. With my current game, I have beaten my personal record, but my percentage is far below the Apolyton Highscore (But it still will be nice to read my name among the Top 20). The year is 2000 ad, the score 1339% by now. I guess I will manage something around 1600% or something (Still about 150 settlers to disband working the last remaining spots).
It really means WORK playing for score, I don´t think I will go for another record within the next year...at least. Does anyone know what the highest score ever achieved is?

[Smash]

2 food caravans or 1 with granary/pyramids will fill the food box.Result:1 new citizen.By using this technique you can grow cities to 126 or so even though you may be running huge food deficits.As long as you fill that food box you get a new citizen and each food caravan will fill half the box regardless of the city size.

Rehoming food caravans from certain cities(like high food sites) keeps you from having nothing but food routes.You can get really carried away and send them in a big loop.Xin explained his technique somewhere.This is how players get these huge percentages.Might be a cheat or trick but this is how it's done.And pounding the ai to 1 city.It gets very tediuos but every player tries at least 1 "high score" game.


I think Ming and Rah each scored 20000 or 30000 points and whatever insane percentages go along with that.
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited July 25, 2000).]

[Ming]

Yeah... I got it over 20,000. Since that was enough to beat Rah's record, I just launched the ship early. The game got so boring, I couldn't take it anymore.

Xin Yu figures you can probably score around 30,000 points. And that sounds about right due to the limitation on city size. If somebody does do that, fine... it could take a long time to do it and the boredom factor is just toooooo high I know I will never try one of those games again...

Edited... good catch Rah...

[This message has been edited by Ming (edited July 26, 2000).]

[rah]

Correct your post Ming, It was 20,000 not 2,000. I know since it beat my 18k and change score. And I also believe that 30k is probably near the theoretical limit.

You couldn't pay me enough to try it though.

RAH

[Paul]

The theoretical limit would be:

Population: 254 * 127 = 32,258
Happy citizens: 254 * 20 = 5,080
Future tech: 255 * 5 = 1,275
Wonders: 28 * 20 = 560
Spaceship: 400
World peace: 100
Barbarian level: 25

This would lead to a total score of 39,698. Unless of course they used a variable type that won't go over 30,000 like they did with the gold.

[Ming]

Good stuff... but one question. I thought you could only get 99 future sciences before it reset to 0? But maybe that was corrected in a later patch...

And you raise a good point on a potential problem with 30000 + points. But, that is one question we will probably never get an answer to. I can't imagine anybody sitting down and trying to do it. And even if they started now, Civ III would be available before they got there

[Paul]

I don't know if it was ever 99 future techs, but I know that I have had 255 future techs back in the days when I still cared about score.

[rah]

I also believe that paul is right. (255) before it reset, or maybe (254) I can't remember.

Let's see someone crack ming's 20k and change. I get tired of always hearing how he's the only one to beat mine.

RAH

[Sten Sture]

Perhaps we could band together and offer a suitable prize - like a dumptruck full of 1 turkish lira coins available for pick-up in rural central Canada. Valued at 630,000 to the US Dollar it might be the right type of prize.

Makes me queasy just thinking about it.

[Xin Yu]

Paul: add 147 to your total and make it 39,845. The only chance for achieving that is to catch a reborn civ's settlers and follow them to the edge of the world. They won't build cities when next to your troops so you should be able to build the 255th city (not confirmed). They won't sneak attack you so you'll be able to get the world peace points, which is very unlikely to keep if you let the AI keep a city.

[Ming]

Always squeezing every little bit extra out of it... Good Job Xin