Wished Firaxis was reading this personal request

[WhoLetTheDaoOut]

I know the game's in a can't-go-back point of production, but the one thing I wish for in the game is to have a *very* large map. I know 16 civilations might put a nail in the coffin for that, but one of the great things in the game IMO is exploring, and with exploring, there's expanding, and conquering, and the challenges as well as a near-authenticity of juggling a large empire. I want to be able to truly explore the vastness of the Russian Taiga and Central Asian steppe, or travel through the Amazon through it's excessive tributaries, and make long journeys through the Pacific Islands. We've recently had people manipulate gigamaps, a lot larger than the standard, but even that's a bit short. I want it to the point where there's even the capacity to build a couple cities on the Lesser Antilles Islands, that scale. I know some like quicker games, which I don't mind, so I think at least the option to make a vast map, have time slower to allow exploration, and a larger limit of cities should be considered.

[LaRusso]

wouldn't that make a game quicker. you'd have space for many cities - lotsa science - quick tech - presto
gigamap would require at least 16 civ to offset that...

[SerapisIV]

Not if you turn down the science rate in the rules.txt

[ancient]

If Blizzard was making this game it wouldnt ever be to late to go back and change something, thats there philosophy; make the game perfect. If youve played blizzards (origional versions) games and then compared them to firaxis/microprose the difference is clear blizzard gives you perfect games there all bug free and super-polished while with firaxis you get pretty much a raw game. But at least with firaxis we wont have to wait 2 more years...

Anyways i think firaxis should note that games shouldnt just be popped onto the shelf as soon as there done.


The game isnt done untill its done.

[BigRich]

Originally posted by SerapisIV
Not if you turn down the science rate in the rules.txt

You would probably have to allow more turns as well - is this possible? Not enough time to explore otherwise. Could be a loooonngg game but it sounds fun. Also much potential for big battles with older style units!

Rich

[N35t0r]

Yes, i agree with that...

I've found out that in my civ games, the time pass rate is too fast for my city & terrain improvements...

[DarkCloud]

Firaxis IS on this board... so they MAY read your request... you never know...

[BigRich]

Originally posted by ancient
If Blizzard was making this game it wouldnt ever be to late to go back and change something, thats there philosophy; make the game perfect. If youve played blizzards (origional versions) games and then compared them to firaxis/microprose the difference is clear blizzard gives you perfect games there all bug free and super-polished while with firaxis you get pretty much a raw game. But at least with firaxis we wont have to wait 2 more years...

Anyways i think firaxis should note that games shouldnt just be popped onto the shelf as soon as there done.


The game isnt done untill its done.

Not to be rude, but is this sarcasm? Diablo II was far from super-polished even after the long delays and the latest StarCraft patch has been an age in coming out. OK there's a big difference between bugs and play balancing (and to be fair they've improved balance enormously and listened to their customers a lot there) but even so, it did have quite a lot of bugs.

Anyway, nuff off topic stuff, I suspect this line of posting could devolve quite seriously

Rich

[Grumbold]

I'm all for them balancing Civ 3 for smaller, tighter maps if that is what they feel will make the gameplay work best. I do expect them to allow modmakers to change all that, going for gigamaps, rewriting the whole tech tree, allowing 50 civs, changing the AI behaviour etc. If the limitations on what you can mod turn out to be very tight then it will be a disappointment after the freedom CtP allowed.

[Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by WhoLetTheDaoOut
I know the game's in a can't-go-back point of production, but the one thing I wish for in the game is to have a *very* large map.

What do you consider to be a very large map?

[Urban Ranger]

Size of the map is a very fundamental design decision that has to be made early. It affects everything such as length of a game turn and strength of units and city radius etc. etc.


ancient,

This is like adding another race in Starcraft. I strongly doubt that Blizzard will do it at some player's request. It's not some trivial thing that can be fixed by changing a few lines of code.

[Jarouik]

I don't believe they will limit the Civ3 engine to small maps exclusively... after all, you could create huge maps, only limited by your computer speed and memory, in SMAC as well. However, since they want to limit the micromanagement tedium towards the end of the game when your empire is large, the optimal map size will certainly not be any larger than that in Civ 2. This does not preclude that you use a huge map; just be prepared to play the game for months (after all, I never finished any games I tried on overly large maps in SMAC, they just become too long and too much to bear)

[WhoLetTheDaoOut]

About 5-6x the scale of the current map for C2: Multiplayer Gold Edition. There is a file which I unfortunately can't get a link to, but it's located in the database area of downloads and on the first page of it, it's a map called "The British Isles" or something, and in my deep down dreams, I'd love it for the map to be that scale, with the British Isles that size, and everything relative to that, but I've read how the archipelago of Svalbard covers the same amount of land as Ireland, and that even one of the peninsulas in Australia does so likewise, so getting to parts like Russia would take far too long. Either way, if a large map couldn't be included in the game, at least a large blank map should be included in the map-making counterparts to make it optional for future tooling.

[WhoLetTheDaoOut]

Shoot, my previous post was in Re: to "What do you consider a large size?" My quote didn't seem to show up.

[Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by WhoLetTheDaoOut


About 5-6x the scale of the current map for C2: Multiplayer Gold Edition. There is a file which I unfortunately can't get a link to, but it's located in the database area of downloads and on the first page of it, it's a map called "The British Isles" or something, and in my deep down dreams, I'd love it for the map to be that scale, with the British Isles that size, and everything relative to that, but I've read how the archipelago of Svalbard covers the same amount of land as Ireland, and that even one of the peninsulas in Australia does so likewise, so getting to parts like Russia would take far too long. Either way, if a large map couldn't be included in the game, at least a large blank map should be included in the map-making counterparts to make it optional for future tooling.

Currently, the largest map size allowed is at least 6x the size of the largest Civ2 maps. Although it is possible, it is unlikely that we will change the map size at this time. If we do change the size, it will probably be made larger. The standard world size is a little larger than the Civ2 standard map size as well.

[Grumbold]

Thanks for the info. That is reassuring. If the maximum size could be left as a configurable option for mod makers to fool with at their own risk that would be even better

[senowen]

Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS

Currently, the largest map size allowed is at least 6x the size of the largest Civ2 maps.

Wow, that IS something. To me that would seem to clear up the 16 civ question. It would have to be 16 at once to come close to filling a map of that size, right? Yes I remember SMAC, but so does Firaxis. All you World War mod makers should be happy.

This news changes just about every thread in here. Unit movement rates are now in question as are all combat strategies [because of possible movement rate changes].

[Zealot]

The little request I have to make to FIRAXIS is to include Portugal as an included Civ in the game, with a bonus on sea units and use a bonus on trade logistics or something. Something to represent the very large empire Portugal had on the XVII century. Most of the southern hemisphere was "ours". Portuguese ruled europe's trade before the dutch. Spain was also influent. But they're already in the game and they "only" got America. The Portuguese empire controled lands from Brazil to China (Macau).

[Steve Clark]

Yes, that does answer my main criticism of having 16 civs. By choosing 16 civs on a map that is 6x current, that should be adequate for terrain exploring, expansion, defense and a reasonable density without overcrowding and overlapping.

[Ralf]

Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS
Currently, the largest map size allowed is at least 6x the size of the largest Civ2 maps. [...]
The standard world size is a little larger than the Civ2 standard map size as well.

Holy smoke! "6x the size"? If one ever would choose this map-size, then one is pretty much forced to choose 16 civs. Otherwise, you be surrounded with too much "no-mans-land", playing in boring isolation way too long.

Im a little surpriced, because the released game-info so far suggests much slower empire-expansion, and no more BAB-style "continue-expanding-forever" strategys. Also: what about the talk of "compressed game" and "quality before quantity"?

[Steve Clark]

Or you can go the masochistic route and play 16 civs on a small map, where by turn 8, there will be only 8 civs left standing. Talk about a compressed game.

It appears to have the option for both extremes and anything in between. Eventually, I suspect that majority of us will settle on the playable balance of the number of civs and map size, and thus, where most of the strategies will revolve around (like many of the Civ2 strategies for 7 civs/small map/raging horde).

[SerapisIV]

Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS
Currently, the largest map size allowed is at least 6x the size of the largest Civ2 maps. Although it is possible, it is unlikely that we will change the map size at this time. If we do change the size, it will probably be made larger. The standard world size is a little larger than the Civ2 standard map size as well.

Jeez that's huge. Now with this eternal Firaxis war on ICS, does this mean that Civ's will be smaller now? How many cities is huge now, 10, 20, 50?

Thanks for the info Mike

[SerapisIV]

Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS
Currently, the largest map size allowed is at least 6x the size of the largest Civ2 maps. Although it is possible, it is unlikely that we will change the map size at this time. If we do change the size, it will probably be made larger. The standard world size is a little larger than the Civ2 standard map size as well.

Hey Mike, now that you've helped appease the Apolyton God's (at least in our feeble minds) thirst for knowledge with your small sacrifice, do you think you could talk Dan into giving up another offering in the form of a website update soon?

[KrazyHorse]

I really hope this means something with regards to 16 civs. After all, didn't they want the game more action-packed and less ICS-friendly? If they've increased the map size without increasing the number of civs, then it's going to be boring ICS paradise.

[Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS]

I should clarify my post somewhat. The maximum allowable size is the largest map size the new terrain engine can handle. None of the selectable world sizes use the maximum map size. Therefore, the standard game will not be on a map that is that large. However, you can create custom world sizes (or even change the dimensions of the selectable world sizes) to create a map that is at least 6x the size of the largest Civ2 map size. Also, mod/scenario makers will be able to create maps that use largest size.

[SerapisIV]

Hey Mike, any hint as to how big the "earth" world map will be at its max setting?

[KrazyHorse]

Notice how cleverly Mike avoids the topic of 16 civs? Quit weaseling!

[SerapisIV]

Here's another quick question Mike, can you guys include a Map of Planet from SMAC? I know it's a map I've come to know and love (and sometimes hate )

[Rasputin]

wow a response from firaixis, they must be getting some free time at last , that means the game getting closer to releasewoo hoo

[SerapisIV]

That or too tired to code, but not too tired to read our posts and laugh at 18 directions we want the game to go in