OCC fortnight #15 - discussion and logs

[Tom DeMille]

Just emailed Paul my latest scenario.

You have only one opponent in this game, with AI restarts set to off. So don't kill off your opponent, or the game will end.

Barbarian activity is set to one below raging hordes (you will get 100 gold per barb leader). I tested the scenario with 3 different barb settings, and found the middle one to be about right.

[Paul]

http://members.home.nl/paulvdb/occ15.zip

[Xin Yu]

Tom: I figure if you let the Romans grow it will attack you. So you must not let it grow while must not kill it .

[Xin Yu]

You can build all wonders you want if you can sabotage the Roman wonder building process . If you build road to connect your city with Roman cities, then the roman caravans will come and update your trade commodity since you are the only one they can trade with.

[Tom DeMille]

Ah, but if you don't let the Romans grow somewhat, your trade routes will suffer.

[Oldman]

Sounds interesting Tom, and it doesn't sound a bit like mine, hurray!!!!!!! i can't wait to give it a go tonight!??! God, i wish i had civ at work!!!!!

[Franklin]

Well my first attempt I got to AC in 2029. Just a little late.

I did not realize I was on a small Island untill I got writing. (I could not get around the Romans) I would do it much diffrently had I known this.

Sorry no log.

[Paul]

Interesting game. I did have some barb problems. They pillaged my land and killed my NON-settler. Luckily that was after I had WLTCD-ed to 21 and not too long before explosives, so it didn't cause too much damage.

The Roman sneak attacks caused some more trouble and delayed my spaceship building a bit. They also killed my engineers, so pollution led to global warming. I never had that in an OCC game before.

Worse was the fact that they also killed most of my caravans which were parked on the shore as protection against barb landings. It was a good thing that I built citywalls because I would have been dead without them.

AC: 1871

Monarchy: -2450
Republic: -725
Democracy: 1020

Colossus: -1850
Coeprnicus: 20
Shakespeare: 300
Newton: 740
Darwin: 1580
Apollo: 1798

Trade routes: -850, -775, -725

Size 12: -275
Size 21: 580

Trade: -1100
Constrcution: -525
Sanitation: 380
Refrigeration: 1260
Automobile: 1580
Computer: 1758
Space Flight: 1796

4000 BC Athens
3750 BC Bronze Working
Warrior
Romans: trade Code of Laws
3500 BC Warrior
3150 BC Ceremonial Burial
2550 BC Monarchy, revolution
2450 BC Gov: Monarchy
Romans: trade Alphabet, Masonry
1900 BC Barb Leader: 100 gold
1850 BC Colossus
1800 BC Writing
1550 BC Library
1500 BC Romans: sneak attack
1450 BC Temple
Currency
1400 BC Romans: peace
1100 BC Trade
1050 BC Marketplace
Romans: war
1000 BC Barb Leader: 100 gold
975 BC Warrior
950 BC Romans: peace
925 BC Build Hides Caravan
850 BC Literacy
Hides to Nicosia (not demanded): 36 gold
800 BC Build Silver Caravan
Barb Leader: 100 gold
775 BC Silver to Nicosia (demanded): 84 gold
750 BC Build Coal Caravan
Republic, revolution
725 BC Gov: Republic
Coal to Nicosia (not demanded): 42 gold
Start WLTCD, size 4
Romans: war
700 BC Diplomat
Establish Embassy
End WLTCD, size 5
650 BC Build Hides Caravan
625 BC Mysticism
Start WLTCD, size 5
600 BC City Walls
Romans: peace
550 BC End WLTCD, size 7
Hides to Nicosia (not demanded): 56 gold
525 BC Construction
Barb Leader: 100 gold
500 BC Build Silk Caravan
450 BC Colosseum
Start WLTCD, size 7
425 BC Mathematics
Silk to Nicosia (not demanded): 68 gold
400 BC Aqueduct
350 BC Astronomy
325 BC Build Wine Caravan
300 BC Wine to Nicosia (not demanded): 70 gold
275 BC Build Dye Caravan
Sold Colosseum
End WLTCD, size 12
225 BC Philosophy, Medicine
Sold Temple
200 BC Dye to Nicosia (not demanded): 70 gold
150 BC Diplomat
75 BC Horseback Riding
50 BC Bribe Barb Trireme (82 gold)
1 AD Barb Leader: 100 gold
20 AD Copernicus' Observatory
Romans: trade Map Making, Banking, Iron Working, Seafaring
120 AD Wheel
180 AD Barb Leader: 100 gold
260 AD Engineering
300 AD Shakespeare's Theatre
380 AD Sanitation
Start WLTCD, size 12
400 AD Sewer System
440 AD Barb Leader: 100 gold
460 AD Bank
500 AD Build Wine Caravan
Bridge Building
Romans: war
Wine to Nicosia (not demanded): 146 gold
540 AD Barb Leader: 100 gold
560 AD Build Wine Caravan
Wine to Nicosia (not demanded): 158 gold
580 AD University
End WLTCD, size 21
600 AD University
Trireme drowned
640 AD Theory of Gravity
680 AD Romans: peace; share maps
720 AD Chemistry
Romans: trade Navigation
740 AD Isaac Newton's College
780 AD Build Wine Caravan
Invention
Wine to Nicosia (not demanded): 72 gold
820 AD Gunpowder
860 AD Build Cloth Caravan
880 AD Explosives
Cloth to Nicosia (not demanded): 84 gold
900 AD Engineer
920 AD Romans: trade Democracy
940 AD Economics
Revolution
980 AD Stock Exchange
1020 AD Gov: Democracy
Start WLTPD, size 19
1080 AD Physics
1120 AD End WLTPD, size 23
1140 AD Magnetism
1180 AD Build Cloth Caravan
Metallurgy
Cloth to Nicosia (not demanded): 90 gold
1220 AD Electricity
1260 AD Refrigeration
1320 AD Supermarket
1380 AD Railroad
Start WLTPD, size 23
1440 AD Industrialization
1500 AD Corporation
Barbs kill Engineers
Oil to Nicosia (not demanded): 58 gold
End WLTPD, size 27
1510 AD Start WLTPD, size 27
1540 AD Steel
1570 AD Refining
1580 AD Darwin's Voyage: Combustion, Automobile
1590 AD End WLTPD, size 29
1600 AD Mass Production
1620 AD Barb Leader: 100 gold
Sold Sewer System
1630 AD Superhighways
Electronics
Sold Aqueduct
Romans: trade Conscription
1640 AD Romans: trade Warrior Code, Feudalism
1660 AD Chivalry
Oil Freight to Nicosia (not demanded): 160 gold
1680 AD Leadership
1700 AD Tactics
1720 AD Machine Tools
1730 AD Engineers
1750 AD Engineers
Miniaturization
1758 AD Computers
1760 AD Research Lab
1762 AD Mobile Warfare
1764 AD Factory
1766 AD Robotics
1768 AD Power Plant
1772 AD Flight
Oil to Nicosia (demanded): 226 gold
1774 AD Manufacturing Plant
1778 AD Radio
Cloth to Nicosia (not demanded): 86 gold
Wine to Nicosia (not demanded): 87 gold
1784 AD Advanced Flight
Romans: sneak attack
1790 AD Rocketry
1796 AD Space Flight
1798 AD Apollo Program
1800 AD Plastics
1804 AD Atomic Theory
1808 AD Nuclear Fission
1814 AD Nuclear Power
1822 AD Romans: sneak attack
1826 AD Laser
Romans: peace
1834 AD Superconductor
1851 AD Fusion Power
Sold Power Plant
1852 AD Sold Factory
1853 AD Sold Research Lab
1854 AD Sold University
1856 AD Launch
1860 AD SAM
1864 AD Stealth
1867 AD Romans: trade Communism
1868 AD Global Warming
1871 AD Arrival at AC

[tonic]

Claustrophobic togetherness – very realistic simulation of Cyprus, Tom; wish there were the Mediterranean lands to explore though! I gave in to the temptation to get Leo’s Workshop on the wrong assumption that the trireme upgrades might bring in the goodies from huts more quickly. Anyway it gave a valuable none-Engineer and two life-saving Musketeers.

While building the SS parts I had to waste a few turns on defence with the menacing Romans so close. My extra pair of Engineers did help prevent any global warming problems. There was a lot of Roman Diplo sabotage activity including the stealing of Plastics and the destruction of my Marketplace, Library and Research Lab. Interestingly enough the last-named didn’t seem to affect the rate but it was not important at the end of the SS rush.

Wish one could form an alliance with the Romans though – all I ever got from them was one lousy tribute of 100 gold! This is one game where Barbs were welcome - a regular source of gold, though devalued by 33%. In any case, when they landed on the Roman side, the Barb Leaders mostly got clobbered by the Roman units although my trireme did manage some lucrative ramming.


2.42 Deity

AC: 1886

Monarchy: -1050
Republic: -25
Democracy: 1100

Colossus: -1850
Copernicus: 280
Shakespeare: 620
Newton: 1200
Darwin: 1670
Apollo: 1838

Trade routes: -300, -300, -275

Size 12: 80
Size 21: 940

Trade: -675
Construction: -525
Sanitation: 640
Refrigeration: 1570
Automobile: 1758
Computers: 1802
Space Flight: 1836


4000 BC Athens founded
3950 BC research Bronze Working Romans: peace no alliance no tribute
3750 BC Bronze Working 3500 Romans: exchange Bronze Working for Alphabet
3450 BC research Ceremonial Burial
2750 BC BarbLeader=100
2050 BC Code of Laws
2000 BC Barbs land near Nicosia and another near Athens
1900 BC BarbLeader=100 BarbLeader=100
1850 BC Colossus
1750 BC Romans: exchange Ceremonial Burial for Writing
1200 BC Monarchy revolution
1150 BC Library
1100 BC BarbLeader=100
1050 BC Govt: Monarchy
1000 BC Diplo commissioned
900 BC Temple Pop=5
800 BC Currency
675 BC Romans: war, Steal Trade
650 BC Marketplace
575 BC Masonry
500 BC Hides caravan built
425 BC BarbLeader=100
400 BC Silver-caravan built
300 BC Hides-Nicosia (not demanded)=32 Silver-Nicosia (not demanded)=32
275 BC Romans sue for peace, tribute 100 Coal-Nicosia (not demanded)=36
250 BC Literacy, Diplo commissioned
200 BC Romans: Construction
125 BC Bribe Barb Trireme
100 BC Republic revolution Pop=8
50 BC BarbLeader=100 Romans: Literacy
25 BC Govt Republic BarbLeader=100 Start WLTCD

AD1 Hides-caravan built, Romans: Monarchy
20 Hides-Nicosia (not demanded)=52
60 Romans: Mysticism
80 Pop=12 End WLTCD
160 Mathematics Romans: Republic
260 Astronomy Romans: Astronomy
280 Copernicus
320 Philosophy get Medicine
380 Horseback Riding Romans: Philosophy
400 Romans: Horseback Riding
420 BarbLeader=100
460 Wheel Romans: Wheel
540 Engineering
580 Romans: Engineering
620 Shakespeare's Theatre
640 Sanitation Romans: Sanitation
660 BarbLeader=100 The Roman Settlers are terraforming forests to plains including the overlapping silk to wheat!
680 Sewer System Sell Colosseum
700 Sell Temple
740 University Romans: Engineering Start WLTCD
760 Dye-Nicosia (not demanded)=76
780 built University
840 Banking
920 Theory of Gravity
940 Bank Pop=21 stop WLTCD
980 Invention Romans: University
1040 Democracy revolution Romans:exchange Invention for Ironworking
1100 Govt Democracy start WLTPC Romans: Democracy
1180 Economics
1200 Isaac Newtons College Romans: exchange Economics for Seafaring
1240 Stock Exchange Gunpowder Max size=26 stop WLTPD Romans: Economics
1280 Chemistry
1300 BarbLeader=100
1320 Explosives Romans: Explosives
1340 Romans: exchange Gunpowder for Seafaring
1360 Metallurgy
1400 Navigation
1420 Romans: Navigation
1460 Physics
1510 Magnetism, Leo's Workshop: upgrades to 2xMusketeers, 1 Engineer & 1 Galleon,
Romans: Physics
1540 Electricity
1550 Romans: Metallurgy exchange Magnetism for Warrior Code
1560 Engineer built, BarbLeader=100 (None-Musketeer vetted!)
1570 Refrigeration
1580 Supermarket
1590 Romans: Electricity & Theory of Gravity
1600 Bridge Building
1630 Steam Engine Romans: Bridge Building
1660 Railroad
1670 Darwin's Voyage get Industrialization Corporation, Romans: Railroad Industrialization
1690 Steel
1700 Engineer built
1720 Refining Romans: Corporation
1730 Romans: Steel
1750 Combustion Start WLTPD Romans: Refining & Combustion
1758 Automobile BarbLeader=100
1760 WLTP ended temporarily due to musketeer away after BarbLeader capture
1762 Electronics Restart WLTPD
1768 Mass Production Stop WLTPD Romans: Electronics
1770 Factory Sell Sewer System
1772 Feudalism Sell Aqueduct
1774 Power Plant
1776 Chivalry Cloth -Nicosia (not demanded)=150 Romans: Automobile Feudalism & Chivalry
1780 Leadership Wine-Nicosia (not demanded)=156 Romans: Leadership
1784 Conscription Romans: Conscription
1788 Tactics Romans: Tactics
1792 Machine Tools
1794 Oil-Nicosia (not demanded)=150
1798 Miniaturization Oil-Nicosia (demanded)=616
1800 Bribe BarbFrigate BarbLeader=100 Romans: Miniaturization
1802 Computers Hides-Nicosia (not demanded)=130
1804 Research Lab Hides-Nicosia (not demanded)=130
1806 Mobile Warfare Oil-Nicosia (demanded)=602 Romans: Computers
1810 Robotics
1812 Manufacturing Plant
1814 Flight Dye-Nicosia (demanded)=194 (also improves attitude cordial->enthusiastic)
1818 Radio
1820 Romans: Radio
1824 Advanced Flight
1826 Oil-Nicosia (demanded)=330 (attitude Cordial->Enthusiastic !)
1830 Rocketry resSpace Flight Copper-Nicosia (demanded)=189
1836 Space Flight Hides-Nicosia (not demanded)=92 Romans: Space Flight
1838 Apollo Program - just as I gathered an island world! Hides-Nicosia
1840 Romans declare war
1842 Plastics Romans kill one engineer and musketeer
1846 City Wall built
1848 Atomic Theory SAM built
1851 Armor built
1852 Nuclear Fission
1855 Nuclear Power
1859 Laser
1861 Romans peace
1862 Roman Diplo steals Plastics, I declare war!
1863 Roman Armor kills my 2 Engineers before being destroyed attacking my walled Athens. My 2 reserve Engineers called on.
1867 Fusion Power
Roman Diplo sabotages my Marketplace
1869 Roman Diplo sabotages my Library
1871 Launch 15-3-3-1-1-1 SS, Stealth
Roman Diplo sabotages my Research Lab
1872 Stealth Fighter built - destroyed attacking Nicosia
1873 -1880 Cruise Missile built each turn and fired at Nicosia - kept Romans on defensive!
1880 Espionage, Romans sue for peace
1881 Spy commissioned
1882 Howitzer built
1884 Mass Transit
1886 Landed AC

[SCG]

thoughts: barbarians were extremely annoying - they kept landing on my specials and pillaging them - took forever to get enough units built up to steer them over to the romans, and even then they would land and attack my caravans/freights (i lost 20 to attacks between the romans and barbs) Also, I REALLY should have built a granary. with all the barb landings and roman land stealing i had several famines due to growth. I would put myself in a food deficit to prevent growing, and enemy units would force me to grow, then pillage and force a food deficit... Also, I think i may try and discover astronomy a tad earlier couldn't figure out why i was getting 5-6 turns per tech, then saw i had bypassed astronomy Also should have watched science closer - with all the AI units using my land, i was getting 3 turns instead of 2 a lot, but still could have guaranteed 2 by dropping the science - i was never in need of gold except to buy AI units for defense and i would have had to turn off science like i did to get the legion, but for muchh longer time periods). I've now won 2 out of 2 games in OCC, but still have an ICS mindset which keeps creeping into how i research techs and conduct diplomacy... probably why i have 2 mid 20th century landings. didn't gift anything to the romans (they refused my science most of the time), although they did demand some, which i gave some of the time, and lots of gold, which i refused, and started a war, continued off and on for most of the game, basically gave up on diplomacy after that. I did manage to forcibly claim enough land for 80 shield production, and when the romans took some of that back during their biggest offensive, they killed enough of my supported units to keep it at 80 production. Fortressed freights and Leo upgrades saved the day on more than 1 occasion I had 17 freights left over so i could have built more wonders than i did, and should have built the hanging gardens given my late democracy change. Anyway, to the messy details

2.42 Diety
AC 1967
Monarchy -1600
Republic -525
Democracy 1830

Colossus: don't remember - probably about 2000-1800 BC
Copernicus: 1650
Shakespeare: 360
Newton: 1740
Darwin: 1810
Apollo: 1928

Trade routes: -650, -600, -500

Size 12: 420
Size 21: 1640

Trade: -700
Construction: 80
Sanitation: 1420
Refrigeration: 1810
Automobile: 1893
Computers: 1900
Space Flight: 1927

4000 Home founded

forgot to start the log until i was a monarchy - no roman gifts or other things, they kept wanting money
started celebrating WLTDD at some point as well leading into the revolt, (2 warriors, 1 setter, 1 phalanx)
-1600 Monarchy formed (size 3)
-1550 (size 4)
-1450 ANOTHER barb landing, this time on irrigated wheat
-1350 Writing
-1300 another roman archer repelled, another barb dip captured., mines rebuilt
-1250 dip built (hmm, supreme already - guess no alliance here...)
-1150 library (WOW, 892 for roman settlers!)
-1050 archer repelled.
-1000 Literacy, warrior repelled
-975 cease-fire. peace with romans
-925 bars on wheat again i need an offensive unit...
-875 Currency
-825 marketplace, barb leader, saved mines from ANOTHER barb landing
-800 cap barb leader(cbl) (rom. settlers down to 732)
-725 dip
-700 trade, barb landing...
-675 caravan
-650 hides to Nicosia, ack! roman settlers strip nearby forest!
-625 caravan, cbl
-600 coal to Nicosia
-575 Republic,caravan, revolt
-550 war with romans...
-525 formed republic, grew to 5, WLTCD canceled (forgot to go for mystism, and kept forgetting)
-500 silver to Nicocia
-475 barb landing on wheat, archer repelled
-450 barb archer wounds rom legion, and dies, saves wheat irrigation and legion doesn't attack city , cbl
-400 legion bribed
-375 caravan
-350 map making
-325 hides to nicosia
-300 barbs land again, killed by landstealing roman legion
-275 caravan
-250 mysticism, hides to nicocia (still nothing demanded, each has been 30ish)
-225 repel rom. legion
-200 WLTCD
-150 7 WLTCD canceled
-125 caravan, forced barbs to land by romans
-100 philosophy, masonry, ceasefire, peace, cbt
-75 caravan, wow, traded literacy, trade,and philosophy for iron working, pottery, and warrior code - romans still only cordial - may be one of my last trades
80 construction, grumble, river silk deforested by romans and they still are using it - next war they may not get it back
100 aquaduct, size 8, miscalculated WL - next turn
120 WL, trying to steer barb trireme
140 Caravan, cancel WL
220 caravan (wow, dye demanded)
260 medicine, dye, demanded (104)
360 Shakespearse, WL (probably should have built colleseum after aquaduct)
420 size 12. cancel WL
460 cbl
580 bank, war with romans (demanded 100 gold)
640 barbs land on silk
680 bridge building, settlers again trying to deforest my land (killed 2 already)
700 steal seafaring from romans
720 diplomat, killed roman settlers
760 caravan
800 caravan
820 cbl
840 caravan
860 horsebackriding, killed roman settlers, repelled roman horsemen
880 caravan
900 killed roman catapult
920 legion
940 barb landing
960 caravan, barbs kill roman settler
1000 caravan, second legion vet from killing settlers.
1040 wheel, caravan
1060 killed catapult
1080 caravan
1120 caravan
1160 caravan
1220 caravan, engineering
1260 caravan
1300 cbl
1320 caravan
1380 caravan
1420 sanitaion
1440 sewer system, WL
1480 caravan
1510 caravan, killed roman knight
1550 romans force senate peace, occupy land to cancel WL
1570 caravan
1580 WL
1590 roman settlers finally deforest my land
1640 astronomy, 21, cancel WL
1650 Copes
1680 caravan
1690 University
1700 University
1730 Theory of Gravity
1740 Isaac's, cbl after he pillaged
1750 chemistry
1758 Invention, d eliveredabout 15 hides caravans at 70 each
1762 Exlposives, caravan
1766 caravan
1768 Explosives
1770 caravan
1772 Metalurgy
1776 Caravan
1780 caravan, Navigation
1784 caravan
1786 physics
1788 caravan, barbs kill caravan protecting silk
1790 Magnetism
1792 caravan
1794 traded bridgebuilding, invention and sanitation for econ, chiv and feud.
1798 caravan, steam engine
1802 caravan, barbs kill caravan protecting silk
1806 Railroad
1808 caravan
1810 Darwins,electricity,, refrigeration,
1814 supermarket
1816 Industrialization
1818 Stoeck Exchange
1822 Engineer
1824 Democracy, revolt
1828 Engineer, famine, engineer lost (DOH!)
1830 Democracy formed
1834 Engineer
1836 Corportation
1838 freight
1842 freight
1844 Refining
1846 Freight
1850 power plant
1851 Electronics, cbl
1852 freight
1853 Leo's
1854 gift railroad (demanded) and foil espionage attempt
1855 freight, conscription
1857 freight
1858 freight
1859 freight, caught up on pollution
1860 freight, leadership
1861 freight
1862 freight
1863 freight
1864 freight, tactics
1865 freight
1866 freight
1867 freight
1868 freight, communism
1869 freight
1870 freight
1871 freight,give in to demand for industrialization, freight
1872 freight,espionage
1873 roman sneka attack, lost 3 freights, engineers vets now
1874 engineers (forgot to turn off WL, there will be a famine... down to 28)
1875 engineers, famine
1876 engineers, famine (size 26)
1877 Steel, freight
1878 freight, food supply back under control
1879 freight
1880 freight, catapult production sabotaged, spy lost
1881 freight
1882 artillery, Machine Tools
1883 freight
1884 freight
1885 freight
1886 Miniturization, freight
1887 alpine troops
1888 alpine troops
1889 freight, combustion, senate forces peace
1890 freight, withdraw offending troops(replace)
1891 freight, roman sneak attack
1892 freight
1893 freight, Automobile
1894 freight, disband engineer
1895 freight, mass production
1896 freight
1897 freight
1898 freight
1899 freight, alpine troop lost, roman settlers clear pollution
1900 computers, freight
1901 freight
1902 freight, cbl
1903 freight, atomic theory
1904 research lab
1905 freight
1906 freight amp warfare (oops)
1907 freight, peace
1908 freight
1909 freight
1910 freight, moble warfare
1911 freight
1912 freight, flight
1913 freight
1914 freight, war with romans, destroy caravans blocking dipo and dipo steals refining
1915 freight, robotics
1916 freight
1917 freight
1918 freight, advanced flight
1925 Adam Smiths (oops, finished too soon)
1926 Manufacturing plant
1927 Space flight
1928 Apollo's
1929 struct, senate forced peace
1930 struct, plastics
1931 comp (fuel)
1932 struct
1933 struct
1934 struct, nuclear fission
1935 struct
1936 struct
1937 struct, nuclear power
1938 struct
1939 struct
1940 struct, laser
1941 struct
1942 struct
1943 struct, superconductor
1944 comp (prop), sneak attack by romans, artillery destroyed
1945 comp (prop) alpines, rifleman destroyed
1946 struct
1947 comp (fuel), rifleman destroyed (1 military unit left short of spies and freights and 2 engineers)
1948 comp (prop) fusion power, sell sewer system
1949 comp (fuel), sell aquaduct
1950 mod (hab)
1951 mod (support)
1952 mod (solar) launch!
1953-1967 howitzers, marines, (discover stealth)stealth fighters,armor etc
1967 AC!

[inca911]

Well, this was my first OCC attempt. I don't have the detailed logs that you guys keep (maybe next time), but I landed in 1945 playing MGE. The Romans never gave me a dime, and kept demanding everything from me. I rush-bought like crazy in order to keep my treasury small. If my treasury had any size, they demanded a gift! The barbs got my NON settler which really hampered things for a bit. Next time, I'll try out v2.42 of the non-MGE version and see how it plays. This is fun!

BTW, I grew via WLT*D and had Engineers and Farmland everywhere. Then I changed to mine some Farmland into Forests and I lost all my Engineers to famine! How are you guys dealing with this issue? Do you limit growth via WLT*D to match your future terrain? I only got to 80 shields at the very end of the game, so a lot of my structurals took 2 turns instead of 1.
[This message has been edited by inca911 (edited August 11, 2000).]

[Tom DeMille]

inca911, I doubt there would have been much difference between MGE and 242 for this scenario (the romans kept attacking me when I was playing). I think the best thing to have done would have been to build a fort next to the Romans and put a couple of defensive units in it. Then sign a cease fires, but not a treaty.

I unusally do a bit of pre planning about how many squares I'm going to forest at the end for production. I take theat into account when deciding how much to grow the city after refrigeration.

[SCG]

Well, ideally, you only grow via WL's, not by natural growth once a republic (something i couldn't seem to controll this game), so you should have a reasonably full food storage for the end game. This will allow you to opperate at a food deficit for a long time (and get those extra specialists in action). So yes, you try and match growth to future potential, but not exactly.

My way to dealing with impending famine was to shrink the city by building engineers, so at all times I had at least 3 engineers out there (including my upgraded NON settlers which i was lucky enough to hang on to) I was constantly scouting with diplomats and caravans along the coastline to preserve my settlers. A little trick I used was to always click on my settlers at the end of the turn so that they had the option of moving somewhere else, or finishing the job they had started each turn. Now if i can just remember which techs to research

As for how to handle diplomacy, ask someone else

[tonic]

quote: Originally posted by Tom DeMille on 08-11-2000 03:14 PM I unusally do a bit of pre planning about how many squares I'm going to forest at the end for production. I take theat into account when deciding how much to grow the city after refrigeration.

This is also a central concern of mine now, when in one of the earlier OCC games I lost all my engineers by growing my city too large. I now have my special OCC spreadsheet to do the calculations.

Interestingly enough in this game OCC15 because of the overlapping terrain, the Romans terraformed the forests to plains including the silk to wheat - great for the early expansion phase but it was a job to keep their engineers from doing the same again (particularly the silk) at the end game.

[butch]

The main reason I finished only 10-15 turns behind Paul despite my slower initial research is that I had no war with the Romans throughout the game. Several times that cost me a lot of money. . .

By end-game I was very careful to avoid cleaning up pollution if that meant the Romans could contact me.

I also built Leonardo's Workshop, just to upgrade my archer and one NONE-settler. It seemed worthwhile in this game.

AC 1882

Monarchy: -2050
Republic: -525
Democracy: 860

Colossus: -1900
Copernicus: -150
Shakespeare: 360
Isaac Newton: 840
Leonardo: 1510
Darwin: 1630
Apollo: 1830

trade routes: -925, -800, -775

size 12: 80
size 21: 640

Trade: -975
Construction: -100
Sanitation: 440
Refrigeration: 1520
Automobile: 1690
Computers: 1792
Space Flight: 1828


4000 BC Founded Athens
3950 BC Peace with Romans
3750 BC Bronze Working
Warrior
3500 BC Warrior
3300 BC Ceremonial Burial
2900 BC Trade C.B. for Alphabet
2700 BC Code of Laws
2500 BC Barbarian Leader: 100 gold
2150 BC Monarchy, revolution
2050 BC Govt: Monarchy
1900 BC Colossus
1650 BC Writing.
Roman tribute: Map Making
1400 BC Library
1250 BC Currency
Barbarian Leader: 100 gold
1050 BC Temple
975 BC Trade
925 BC Hides Caravan
1st trade: Hides to Nicosia (not demanded), 36 gold
825 BC Mysticism
Silver Caravan
800 BC 2nd trade: Silver to Nicosia (not demanded), 32 gold
Barbarian Leader: 100 gold
775 BC Coal Caravan
3rd trade: Coal to Nicosia (not demanded), 36 gold
725 BC Literacy
Food Caravan
625 BC Food Caravan
600 BC Barbarian Leader: 100 gold
575 BC Philosophy
The Republic, revolution
Food Caravan
525 BC Govt: Republic
Disband Warrior
500 BC Begin WLTCD (size 4)
Food Caravan
475 BC Disband Warrior
425 BC End WLTCD (size 7)
400 BC Food Caravan
375 BC Masonry
325 BC Food Caravan
Barbarian Leader: 100 gold
275 BC Mathematics
Hides Caravan

Hides to Nicosia (not demanded), 56 gold
175 BC Astronomy
Food Caravan
150 BC Copernicus’ Observatory
100 BC Construction
Wine Caravan
75 BC Wine to Nicosia (not demanded), 66 gold
25 BC Medicine
Colosseum
Barbarian Leader: 100 gold
Begin WLTCD (size 8)
20 AD Aqueduct
60 AD Horseback Riding
80 AD End WLTCD (size 12)
Food Caravan
Sold Colosseum
120 AD Food Caravan
Sold Temple
160 AD Discovered University
180 AD Food Caravan
240 AD Dye Caravan
260 AD The Wheel
Dye to Nicosia (demanded), 148 gold
300 AD Food Caravan
340 AD Food Caravan
360 AD Shakespeare’s Theatre
380 AD Engineering
400 AD Built University
440 AD Sanitation
460 AD Sewer System
Begin WLTCD (size 12)
520 AD Food Caravan
540 AD Banking
560 AD Food Caravan
620 AD Food Caravan
640 AD End WLTCD (size 21)
660 AD Invention
Food Caravan
700 AD Food Caravan
740 AD Democracy
Food Caravan
780 AD Food Caravan
820 AD Theory of Gravity
Food Caravan
Revolution
840 AD Sir Isaac Newton’s College
860 AD Govt: Democracy
880 AD Bank
900 AD Chemistry
920 AD Food Caravan
960 AD Economics
1000 AD Food Caravan
1020 AD Pottery
1040 AD Stock Exchange
1080 AD Navigation
Diplomat
Establish Embassy with Romans
1120 AD Romans demand 150 gold to keep peace
Trade for Physics
Food Caravan
1140 AD Iron Working
1160 AD Food Caravan
1200 AD Gunpowder
1220 AD Food Caravan
1260 AD Bridge Building
1280 AD Food Caravan
1320 AD Magnetism
Diplomat
1360 AD Food Caravan
1380 AD Metallurgy
1400 AD Food Caravan
1440 AD Electricity
Food Caravan
1480 AD Settler
Disband Diplomat
1500 AD Explosives
Cloth Caravan
Cloth to Nicosia (not demanded), 81 gold
1510 AD Leonardo’s Workshop (2 Engineers – 1 NONE)
1520 AD Refrigeration
1530 AD Cloth Caravan
Trade for Steam Engine
1550 AD Railroad
Barbarian Leader: 100 gold
1560 AD Supermarket
1570 AD Industrialization
1580 AD Begin WLTPD (size 20)
Food Caravan
Cloth to Nicosia (not demanded), 57 gold
1590 AD The Corporation
1600 AD Food Freight
1610 AD Industrialization
Barbarian Leader: 100 gold
1620 AD Food Freight
1630 AD Darwin’s Voyage: Steel, Refining
1640 AD End WLTPD (size 26)
1650 AD Cloth Freight
1660 AD Combustion
1670 AD Barbarian Leader: 100 gold
1690 AD Automobile
1700 AD Superhighways
Cloth to Nicosia (not demanded), 148 gold
1710 AD Mass Production
1720 AD Food Freight
1730 AD Electronics
1740 AD Food Freight
1750 AD Barbarian Leader: 100 gold
1752 AD Conscription
Food Freight
1754 AD Begin WLTPD (size 26)
1756 AD Food Freight
1758 AD Feudalism
1760 AD Food Freight
1762 AD End WLTPD (size 30)
1764 AD Chivalry
Cloth Freight
1768 AD Leadership
Food Freight
1770 AD Barbarian Leader: 100 gold
1772 AD Food Freight
1774 AD Tactics
1776 AD Food Freight
1780 AD Machine Tools
Food Freight
1782 AD Food Freight
1786 AD Miniaturization
1788 AD Food Freight
1792 AD Computers
1794 AD Research Lab
1796 AD Mobile Warfare
1798 AD Food Freight
1800 AD Robotics
1802 AD Factory
1804 AD Flight
1806 AD Hydro Plant
Barbarian Leader: 100 gold
1810 AD Radio
Manufacturing Plant
1812 AD Engineer #3
1814 AD Engineer #4
1816 AD Advanced Flight
1820 AD Rocketry
1824 AD Sold Aqueduct
1826 AD Sold Sewer System
1828 AD Space Flight
1830 AD Apollo Program
1832 AD Structural #1
1834 AD Structural #2
1836 AD Structural #3
Plastics
Romans get 300 gold to keep peace
Romans steal Space Flight
1840 AD Component #1 (forgot to rush-buy using temple)
Atomic Theory
1842 AD Structural #4
1844 AD Structural #5
Nuclear Fission
1846 AD Structural #6
1848 AD Structural #7
1850 AD Structural #8
Nuclear Power
Disband Engineer (now 80 shields/turn; buy ½ of component)
1851 AD Component #2
1852 AD Structural #9
1853 AD Structural #10
1854 AD Structural #11
1855 AD Structural #12
1856 AD Structural #13
1857 AD Structural #14
Superconductor
1858 AD Structural #15
1859 AD Component #3
1860 AD Component #4
1861 AD Component #5
1862 AD Component #6
Sold Manufacturing Plant
1863 AD Module #1
Sold Factory
Romans get 600 gold to keep peace (those bastards!)
Fusion Power
1864 AD Sold Research Lab
1865 AD Module #2
Sold University
Disband Engineer (2 left, one is NONE)
1867 AD Module #3
LAUNCH.
1868 AD City Walls
1869 AD SAM
1870 AD Barracks
1871 AD Armor
1873 AD Mass Transit
1874 AD Food Freight, Disband it
1875 AD Howitzer
1876 AD Armor
1877 AD Howitzer
Disband Muskeeter
1878 AD Armor
1880 AD Bomber
1882 AD Arrive at AC

[tonic]

Well done. We followed almost the same path - building Leos! Only you made it 4 turns before me - I probably spent those on defence while building the SS parts.

[Smash]

I had a fairly tough time in this one.

I only got 2 turns after 1846 when I traded for Atomic Theory.It changed drastically.Before that I could not manage 2 turns at 100%.After- 2 turns at 60%-strange.No major gifting just a straight up trade.

I did manage to keep my settler alive until very late.Had many close calls though.The Romans were extremely helpful in responding to barb attacks.

They were also very helpful with irrigation and roads/rails.

I gave up trying to maintain that river silk.They would have had units all over my city all game with a ceasefire so I decided to let them change it,irrigate and farm it while I changed the other wheat they couldn't reach.

Barb and Roman intrusions wreaked havoc on "we love" days.Stopped and started way too many times.

I bribed a leader early and set up an embassy.Was useful.I can't beleive how many times the Romans changed governments.AND they kept changing to despo!Terrible for my trade routes.

They also built an explorer

Arrival-1887AD

Collosus-1750BC
Cope’s-260AD
Shake’s-660AD
Ike’s-unknown-oops
Darwin’s-1680AD
Apollo-1840AD

Trade-975BC
Construction-300BC
Sanitation-700AD
Refrigeration-1560AD
Automobile-1754
Computers-1802AD
Space Flight-1840 AD

Monarchy-2050BC
Republic-525BC
Democracy-940AD

Trade routes
1.800BC
2.725BC
3.700BC

12-75BC
21-900AD

4000-Athens
3950-contact Romans-peace-whoa they are close
3800-Bronze Working-warrior-start wonder-Demographics have me 2nd in Literacy.That means Rome has Alphabet so I choose Burial-I won’t get delayed in a scenario
3350-Burial-trade for Alphabet-they have Laws -also Pottery---my settler is gonna be extremely vulnerable to seabound barbs here-its gonna be tough to keep the ai from irrigating those silk too.At first this looked routine.I should know better than that with a TomD scenario.
2750-Laws
2400-barbs land and would have killed my settler if it were not for the Roman warrior I’ve allowed to be roaming my outskirts.It attacked the barb archer and won.
2350-leader 100
2050-Monarchy-instant rvolution-gift to Romans
1800-leader 100
1750-Collosus
1450-Writing
1400-temple-trade Writing for Currency
1200-we love the king
975-Trade-trade it for Pottery
900-library
850-leader 100
825-silver caravan
800-Mysticism-silver to Nicosia 42
775-settler survives barb attack and becomes a vet-barb leader 100
750-hides caravan
725-hides to Nicosia 40
700-coal caravan-deliver to Nicosia 40-ai has chopped a forrest,roaded and irrigated 1 square.gift Literacy
600-Philosophy-Republic-revolt-trade Republic for Map Making-gift Philosophy
575-market
525-govt-Republic
500-”we love” 5-ai changes river silk to wheat
450-end “we love” 7-diplomat-leader 100
400-Masonry-hides caravan -the road is blocked-the diplomat is proving useful for getting thru ZoC
375-hides to Nicosia-62-
325-hides caravan
300-Construction-hides to Nicosia 62
250-colliseum-leader 100-warrior loses to 2nd leader so i bribe it-establish an embassy
200-Mathematics
175-”we love” 8
150-aquaduct
75-end “we love” 12-sell colliseum-trade Math for Seafaring...hmmm...catapults..might be bad
50-wine caravan 80-the Romans have built an EXPLORER-LOL-river wheat back to silk
25-Astronomy
-------------------------------
AD1-dye caravan 84
40-cloth caravan
60-Romans change to Despot-LOL
80-hides
120-caravan
140-Medicine
160-caravan
200-caravan-Romans go Monarchy
240-leader 100
260-Cope’s
300-University-cloth caravan 72-Romans declare war
340-catapult-
360-steal Banking
380-city walls-peace-trade University for Horseback Riding
400-gift Astronomy-
420-The Wheel-diplomat-gift Wheel-share maps
460-hides
500-hides-bribe barb trireme 82
540-wine
580-Engineering-caravan
620-caravan
640-sell temple
660-Shake’s
680-trade Engineering for Economics-gift Medicine
700-Sanitation-ai changes that silk again-gift Sanitation
720-start “we love” 12
740-sewer system
840-Invention
860-bank
880-gift Invention-share maps
900-end “we love” 21
940-Democracy-instant Revolution-
960-”we love” 21-trade Democracy for Warrior Code-build university
980-lose “we love”(barbs)
1000-gold caravan
1020-Gravity
1040-caravan-”we love”
1080-caravan-trireme sunk-was useful maybe at blocking barb trirmes for awhile at least 1 turn so I could stop my settler if needed
1100-Chemistry
1120-end “we love” 24-caravan
1160-caravan
1180-Navigation-caravan
1260-Physics-trade Navigation for Iron Working-gift Physics,Chemistry and Gravity-share maps-stupid ai is in Despo again.Killing my trade routes
1320-Gunpowder
1340-stock exchange
1380-Explosives-dye caravan 81
1400-”we love” 24
1420-engineer-end “we love” 24
1440-Magnetism-gift Explosives and Magnetism
1460-engineer
1500-Metallurgy-dye caravan
1510-dye to Nicosia(demanded)144
1520-caravan
1530-Electricity
1550-caravan
1560-Refrigeration-gift Gunpowder,Refrig and Electricity
1570-supermarket
1590-Steam Engine-caravan
1600-”we love”-gift Steam-”we love” 23
1610--caravan
1620-trade Metallurgy for Bridge Building
1630-caravan
1640-Railroad
1650-dye caravan 108-end “we love” 27
1670-Industrialization-dye 110
1680-Darwin’s>Steel>The Corporation-gift Railroad
1700-Refining-dye 162
1720-wine freight 81
1730-Combustion-”we love” 27
1740-freight
1752-freight-end “we love” 30-sell sewer
1754-Automobile-sell aquaduct
1756-superhighway
1760-Electronics-freight
1764-Mass Production-gems 134
1768-Feudalism-dye 140
1772-Chivalry-freight-gift Mass Production
1776-trade Refining for Conscription
1778-Leadership
1780-factory
1782-gift Electronics
1784-Tactics-hydro plant
1786-freight
1788-alpine troop
1790-Machine Tools-freight
1792-artillery
1794-artillery-disband catapult
1796-Miniaturization-oil
1798-dye
1800-leader 100-alpine troop-disband archer-bribe barb frigate 102
1802-Computers-dye 146
1804-research lab
1806-Mobile Warfare-freight-oil 148
1808-freight
1810-Robotics-freight-disband artillery
1812-howitzer
1814-Flight
1816-manufacturing plant
1818-barracks-disband artillery
1820-sneak attack got my engineers-armor-sabotage Roman hydro plant
1822-Radio-engineer
1824-engineer-
1826-diplomat-sabotage granary
1828-Advanced Flight-diplomat-sabotage stock exchange
1830-diplomat-sabotage cannon production
1832-alpine troop
1834-Rocketry-oil 91
1836-dye 94
1840-Space Flight
1842-Apollo
1844-Romans steal Space Flight
1846-Plastics-peace with Romans-trade Leadership for Atomic Theory my science takes a huge turn for the good.I now can get 2 turns at 60% where previously I could not get it at 100%
1848-insist withdrawal and war results(desired)
1850-Nuclear Fission-Romans sabotage bank
1851-bank
1852-Nuclear Power
1854-The Laser-I sure wish my research had gone like this all game-still at 60%
1855-Nicosia empty
1856-Superconductor
1858-Fusion Power
1865-Romans pay 3600 for peace treaty
1866-goaded Romans back to war
1872-15-3-3-1-1-1-LAUNCH
1873-diplomat-sabotage rifleman
1874-Stealth-diplomat sabotage rifleman
1875-diplomat-sabotage temple
1876-diplomat-sabotage sewer
1877-diplomat-market
1878-Communism-diplomat-library
1879-diploamt-rifleman
1880-diplomat-walls
1881-diplomat-engineers
1882-Espionage-diplomat-engineers-senate signs peace treaty so I revolt
1883-govt-Communism-spy-colliseum-every Nicosia square pillaged down to rails
1884-spy-captured
1885-spy captrued-no more specific targets
1886-spy-rifleman-returned
1887-ARRIVAL -AC
destroy Romans next turn



[This message has been edited by Smash (edited August 18, 2000).]

[Tom DeMille]

quote: destroy Romans next turn

How mean!

[tonic]

Paul,
Has anyone sent in a scenario for OCC16 yet? It's probably more than curiosity prompting the question - fortnightly withdrawal symptoms starting to be evident.

[Paul]

Yes, I got one from Oldman. But it hasn't been two weeks since the last one, so just be patient.

[SCG]

quote: Originally posted by Paul on 08-17-2000 04:51 AM But it hasn't been two weeks since the last one, so just be patient.

11 days close enough?

------------------
April Cantor: Sire, in order to expand further we must first gain favor of the King

SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince

*goes off and starts gifting gold and techs*

[Paul]

#15 was posted only 9 days ago and some people don't have as much time to play as others. That's why we made this a fortnightly feature instead of the original proposal of a weekly OCC comparison game. So just wait 5 more days.

[tonic]

I think the fortnight interval is fine. Just wanted to be assured that our scenarists are keeping up their good work.

[Oldman]

Yeah, we're still hard at work!!! i thought i'd better get my scenario finished before the weekend so Paul has something he can post!! I'm still struggling myself on Tom's occ15, I think i pissed off the romans by taking 2 of their fortifications, only now they've gotten Legion and are mightily p****d off by the look of it!! It might be RIP Oldman 400ad if i'm not careful...

...Wish me luck!

[Paul]

OCC #15 table now available.

[Scouse Gits]

Woops!
_____________
Fortnight #15 OCC - 'Cyprus' - v2.42 - deity

AC

Monarchy -2650
Republic -525
Democracy

Colossus -1300
Copernicus 340
Shakespeare
Newton
Darwin
Apollo

Trade#1 -650
Trade#2 -550
Trade#3 -450

Size 12 -150
Size 21

---------------------
Comments:
---------------------

4000 Athens founded
3950 Romans: peace
3800 Alphabet
3300 Code of Laws; swap for Ceremonial Burial
2900 Barracks sold
2700 Monarchy; Revolution; swap for Pottery
2650 MONARCHY
2600 Barbar landing - 2 Archers
2450 Mine pillaged, Barbarian Leader captured: 100g
2250 another bloody barbar landing - 2 Archers right next to my settler - city garrison just managed to despatch them - lost WLKD
2050 more bloody barbs what have you done!!!
1950 Bronze Working unfortunately after the Romans
1850 Gotcha - Barb leader: 100g
1350 Currency -> Writing from Romans
1300 COLLOSSUS
1200 Temple
1000 TRADE
0800 Barb leader: 100g
0775 Library
0675 Barb leader: 100g
0650 HIDES TO NICOSIA: 44g
0625 Mysticism
0575 Romans: Republic; Revolution
0550 SILVER: 36g
0525 REPUBLIC established
0500 Barb leader: 100g
0450 COAL: 66g
0425 Philosophy -> Masonry
0375 Silk: 198g
0350 CONSTRUCTION; Marketplace; Barb leader: 100g
0275 Colosseum; WLCD starts @ 7
0225 Aqueduct
0200 Mathematics; Romans turn mutual Silk into Corn!
0175 City Walls; Barb leader: 100g
0150 WLCD stops @ 12
0125 Diplo -> Embassy
0050 Astronomy -> Medicine; Dye: 132g; Barb leader: 100g
0025 Maths -> Banking
-----
0140 Barb Leader: 100g
0340 COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY
0400 The Wheel
0460 Wine: 126g
0480 Engineering; Barb: 100g
0660 Romans capture Athens - game over!

duh!
:bruised:

------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Oldman]

Tough luck Scouse, Don't worry though i don't think you're going to be the only one who might suffer a defeat at the hands of the romans!??! I hope you fare better with my scenario next week!!

[inca911]

Hiya! So, what notable events must you keep track of in order to be included in Paul's comparison table? Also, is v2.42 generally the OCC platform of choice? I used MGE for my only OCC game so far and the AI's hostility is quite an issue when attempting to get tribute/alliance/tech trades. Maybe next OCC game I won't lose my Engineers to famine!!

[Paul]

In order to be in the table you must at least keep track of all the events that are mentioned in the table. Most people here put those in short summaries at the top of their logs; in my case those were:

quote: AC: 1871 Monarchy: -2450 Republic: -725 Democracy: 1020 Colossus: -1850 Coeprnicus: 20 Shakespeare: 300 Newton: 740 Darwin: 1580 Apollo: 1798 Trade routes: -850, -775, -725 Size 12: -275 Size 21: 580 Trade: -1100 Constrcution: -525 Sanitation: 380 Refrigeration: 1260 Automobile: 1580 Computer: 1758 Space Flight: 1796

For our full logs we keep some more details; just check them out to see what's in them.

OCC games are usually played with version 2.42 because the AI is generally more hostile in MGE.

[Uber]

I tried to do the occ15 scenario on ToT, and it says that it's in obsolete format. How do I get around that problem so I can play the scenario on it?? Any help is much appreciated. thanks