another rookie question

[IamRookie]

is there a way. to catch a city before it goes into civil disorder.. so that you can take steps to stop it from ever happening?

[rah]

Yeah, Smash, I do check the happy option to see if it's going to be a problem. And I will create an elvis and check back the next turn to see if i miscalculated and can work him. (Getting lazy as i get older)

I always get caught when I build a settler in a city that I'm using an elvis to keep order in, because it shifts the workers after the settler is built and usually uses the elvis to work food I don't need. AND THE FU*KING CITY REVOLTS. Needless to say this one annoys me most of all.

RAH

[Kitana]

What about when you are going to have a revelution? It is hard to tell which cities are going to go into disorder, unless you jack your luxuries up to 60% until you are done. Any advice?

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Kitana
Shogun of the Japanese

[Smash]

I hate that re-organization of workers.Move my worker from wine to non-sheild grass..arghh.

1.Revolt
2.Jack luxuries(might as well)
3.scroll thru cities hiring elvi where needed.

Tax rate is a national thing.Hiring specialists is like local government.
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited August 21, 2000).]

[rah]

No automated way. You must check every city to see if you'll have population growth and then determine the impact on that city and on the rest of your civ. No it is not fun, and sometimes you miscalculate. Deal with it.
Check the old threads that discuss empire impact. Yes you too can have your head spinning trying to keep track of it.

RAH
Yes it would be nice in CIVIII that you could preview attitude for the next turn prior to ending the current one.

[Tom DeMille]

And now you know one of the reasons some of us like to play OCC.

[kcbob]

I'm not sure I understand the problem. Could it be as simple as planned growth, i.e., build a temple right after a defender/settler? As rah stated, you have to watch each city and plan ahead. Building a coluseum before you need it (civil disorder) might seem extravagant but you gotta do what you gotta do.

And I believe Tom's comment concerning OCC is referring to Shakespeare's Theater. I always found it hard to justify in a "normal" game. In OCC, it's worth its weight in gold.

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Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

[Smash]

Checking the happy menu can tell you if the next citizen is going cause a problem.

If you still don't know,then hire an Elvis just before the city grows.After,you can see if he can go to work or become a scientist/taxman.

It would be alot better if they something like Rah mentioned or at least a notification that a city is about to gain population.

[Scouse Gits]

A small point for IamRooky's benefit - a city with a full food box will grow next turn regardless of whether or not there is a food surplus (I may be wrong, but I think it will grow even if there is a deficit) so don't be concerned that the extra Elvis needed for safety first removes your food surplus for the city ...


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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Oldman]

I always find that a fairly good short term measure is checking your attitude adviser from the menu (F4 i think), any city that is in trouble (imbalance of happy/unhappy people) shows up in red, so you can deal with those problems!! This won't however show a city growing during the end turn phase and going straight into disorder, but it's worth checking that page to catch any changes that may have occured to your empire during your own turn, and it shows all of your cities on the same page so it's much easier than checking every city in turn.

I suppose the only other way to stop disorder is to multitask your brain and check everything all of the time, just hope that you can cope better than Windows NT!!!!!

[Mike.doc]

Please what is OCC ?
rookie-too, rookie-two

[Oldman]

OCC - One City Challenge!!! You play the whole game with ONE city and only ever have ONE city, and try to win the space race - great fun!!!!

Check out Pauls Definitive OCC Site There is everything you'll ever need to know about OCC!!!

[kcbob]

But be careful. OCC is VERY addictive!!! And yes, it can be done! Just be patient.

BTW, Mike.doc. I notice you're from Belgium. You ought to go to the General/Community board and add yourself to the list in the following thread:
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum1/HT...tml?date=03:05

It's a tally of where everyone lives.

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Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

[This message has been edited by kcbob (edited August 22, 2000).]

[Carolus Rex]

One even more annoying thing is when the AI shuffles your workers around so you have a shield shortage!!! Poof, a unit less...

I thought that cities grew only with a food "surplus" >=0? Deficit = no growth?

On building settlers. If I'm about to complete a settler the next turn in a size 2 city that needs an Elvis to keep cool, I put the worker back. If I only get one unhappy face, then the city doesn't revolt when the settler is completed and the worker stays at work. If I get two unhappies I call Elvis again...

Carolus

[SCG]

reguardless of how much of a food deficit you have, if the food storage is full, the city will grow. Thats why you can grow to 127 in size using food caravans.

[DaveV]

My theory on the growth question: if you are generating more food than is required to fill the food box, it will still only fill the box. I think the game remembers the surplus food, though, and you will grow the next turn even if you're not producing a food surplus. I've never tried this with a food deficit. Maybe if the deficit is less than the surplus on the previous turn?

Edit: on the other hand, SCG is probably right. Never mind...
[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited August 22, 2000).]

[Carolus Rex]

More on the food box.

This is what I'm sure about.

i) Any food that more than fills the box is wasted. If you need one more food to fill the box and the city produces a surplus of two, then the extra food is wasted. That's something to micromanage, I dare not speak on whether you should max shields or trade.

ii) The game doesn't remember the wasted food. If you shuffle workers around so you get zero surplus when the box is filled, then the city grows and have no food in the box. If you shuffle workers around and have a three food surplus when the box is filled, then the city grows and have three food in the box.

I'm not sure on the deficit, though. I've always (by habit) made sure that I have a surplus >=0 when the box is full. Easy enough to test, though.

Carolus

[tobyr]

There's an easy way to check for disorder, but it's not a very pure solution:

Set the game option to pause at end of turn. EVERY TURN, save the game (I find this less confusing than trusting the auto-save function).

Don't bother to check for disorder. But if a city goes ito disorder, go back to the previous saved file and try to fix it the problem.

NOTE: If you have many cities and a lot of population, the happiness display can frequently show you FALSELY that a city is unhappy. You go to the city and find out that it is really OK. The cheat I described above is a lot nicer than checking these false unhappiness warnings every turn.

- toby



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toby robison
criticalpaths@mindspring.com

[Carolus Rex]

And in MP?

Carolus

[My Wife Hates CIV]

here's my two cents. it's a rare situation i'm sure but something to know anyway.

if your city is size 8 with a food box that's full (size 9 next turn), building an aqueduct (rush building) is a waste of gold. the population growth takes place before building does. i found this out the hard way after borrowing some gold from Rah in a MP game. My city stayed at eight and the food box emptied.

[tobyr]

I believe that Sten Shure's method of changing the rates -- to make the happiness screen update for the current turn -- does not avoid the bug in ToT that causes some cities to appear unhappy, even though they appear OK when you go to the actual city display.

-toby

[SCG]

quote: Originally posted by My Wife Hates CIV on 08-22-2000 01:12 PM here's my two cents. it's a rare situation i'm sure but something to know anyway. if your city is size 8 with a food box that's full (size 9 next turn), building an aqueduct (rush building) is a waste of gold. the population growth takes place before building does. i found this out the hard way after borrowing some gold from Rah in a MP game. My city stayed at eight and the food box emptied.

just don't confuse that with growung via WLTxD - checks for celebration are made after food checks and production checks.

IIRC,
1)the game checks food, then grows or suffers famine if necessary.
2)checks production, building or disbanding if necessary
3)checks happiness, putting into effect the appropriate bonuses or disorder

I'm not quite sure when the checks for deficit spending are since i'm usually dilligent enough or overcompesated enough that selling of my structures due to lack of funds doesn't happen that often and so not sure if selling of a happiness structure would cause disorder in a previously content city the same turn or not. (sorry )

[Smash]

Just in case there was any confusion,I was refering to the happy screen in the city window.Not the happiness advisor.

I don't know about that advisor.You can see your cities and some in red don't show up until you scroll thru each city individually.

Kinda like "This was the state of affairs last time you passed thru your worship"

Could be a bug,could be a feature.


I'm the person they made "preview your post" for.


[This message has been edited by Smash (edited August 22, 2000).]

[tonic]

quote: Originally posted by Smash on 08-22-2000 05:08 PM I don't know about that advisor.You can see your cities and some in red don't show up until you scroll thru each city individually. Kinda like "This was the state of affairs last time you passed thru your worship"

True, even with a moderate-sized civ it's a pain having to keep track of all the cities that are filling up their boxes. You often find out the hard way, the next turn. That's one more reason I'm on the OCC wagon.

[SCG]

quote: Originally posted by Carolus Rex on 08-22-2000 11:31 AM i) Any food that more than fills the box is wasted. If you need one more food to fill the box and the city produces a surplus of two, then the extra food is wasted. That's something to micromanage, I dare not speak on whether you should max shields or trade.

very true, although if you are producing more than 2 food surplus, you may want to start micromanaging several turns in advance.

quote: ii) The game doesn't remember the wasted food. If you shuffle workers around so you get zero surplus when the box is filled, then the city grows and have no food in the box. If you shuffle workers around and have a three food surplus when the box is filled, then the city grows and have three food in the box.

almost. when it grows naturally, you also get the new worker's output, if any. I use that to my advantage to control where the AI puts the new worker. I take the tile that the AI is mostlikely to want to use and remove the worker from that square, placing the rest of the workers where I want them, and let the AI place the new worker in the place I just removed it from. If it was an oasis or wheat, sometimes I have a food deficit going into the next turn, but come out with a surplus again.

When growing via WL days, you don't get the new worker's output on the turn of growth, so what you said before is correct there.

quote: I'm not sure on the deficit, though. I've always (by habit) made sure that I have a surplus >=0 when the box is full. Easy enough to test, though. Carolus

tested thoroughly through a lifetime of Civing

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April Cantor: Sire, in order to expand further we must first gain favor of the King

SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince

*goes off and starts gifting gold and techs*

[Sten Sture]

edit - SCG - great point about giving the AI an obvious (food related) choice for where to apply the new worker.

CR - I think toby's method also works in MP, you just have to have everybody get out and reload!

A tip for the attitude function key screen that helps with all of this stuff -

If you look at the Attitude Advisor ((F4) at the end of your turn it will not reflect changes in the cities that took place that turn. You can reset it by changing your tax/lux rates (shift+T) - (maybe to 0% sci to check your research cost) and then changing it back. This will not prevent problems from growing the next turn, but can help catch obvious problems from having the disorderly cities rotate.

Another tip when you are using multiple specialists - make the Elvis guys first and then leftovers as Scientists and Accountants - that way when you build a settler you don't lose an Elvis and get unhappy.

For potential shield support losses when building a settler - know that the AI will remove a worker from anything that doesn't produce a lot of food regardless of trade or shields or specialness. Grassland will stick, but build a shield cushion by re-allocating your workers to multiple shield producing terrain. Three forests can't be entirely removed, but one iron mountain will certainly get the boot.

[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited August 22, 2000).]