Why is there no Firaxis update?

[yin26]

3) ...including common courtesy.

I agree! I'm not even talking giving new information but tending to the basic information ANYBODY should resonably expect. You say "monthly updates" but can't keep the schedule? SAY IT! You say "Well, we have TWO projects going on" so you can't update the site often? SAY IT! And don't say it in this thread for goodness sake. Where should you say it?

Hmmm....HOW ABOUT ON THE WEB PAGE ITSELF?! Oh, but I forget, this takes tooooo long. Much better to surf here and make excuses.

If there's something I'VE learned about Firaxis it's that:

1. They have more faith in themselves as gamers than they do in their public. Call it the 'Sid Complex.'
2. They consider the public the beneficiary NOT the source of Firaxis' existence.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by yin26
Much better to surf here and make excuses.

all civers read apolyton anyway


do you know how many things that take 1 minute are waiting to be done in my to-do list?

[yin26]

Are those things in your job description or up to your own good will or whim as a hobbyist? Someone forgot to tell the Wizard that this groovy Net job stopped being a hobby when he signed the dotted line. Of course, if his bosses don't care, who am I to argue?

By the way, Markos, there's understanding and then there's bending over to touch your toes...

One more thing: I would bet my LIFE that if you in Dan's situation, you would have updated that site 100 times, at least just to say: "Sorry. We will miss the update this month. We'll try for an even BETTER update next month!" Why and how do I know this? Because I've seen your work ethic in practice many, many times. I might not always agree with what you do with this site, but at least you DO something on a consistent basis. And I'm sure those little things call "Life" and "Work" are demanding some of your time, too, eh?

[yin26]

Oh, and Markos: Which should take priority in YOUR opinon? 1) Keeping the Civ3 site at least to the barest degree of updated or 2) Setting up Trade War games? Care to venture how many minutes this overly taxed Wizard put toward TW and NOT the Civ 3 site? I'd be interested to hear your rough estimate...

Yin, you a lawyer?? You make so many good points that are hard to argue with. If I'm in trouble, forget Johnny Cochran, I want Yin on my team!

[MarkG]

Originally posted by yin26
Are those things in your job description or up to your own good will or whim as a hobbyist?

dont know anymore. some people consider it my duty towards them to continue doing what i do here

Someone forgot to tell the Wizard that this groovy Net job stopped being a hobby when he signed the dotted line. Of course, if his bosses don't care, who am I to argue?

i think it's obvious that he's into other things as well, and that the web site is not the highest priority.

as for his bosses, i highly doubt that they dont care if one of their employess sits all day doing nothing. it's more logical to think that they have given him other things to do as well....

And I'm sure those little things call "Life" and "Work" are demanding some of your time, too, eh?

i'm making this post from work....

[MarkG]

Originally posted by yin26
Which should take priority in YOUR opinon? 1) Keeping the Civ3 site at least to the barest degree of updated or 2) Setting up Trade War games?

the TW server was down for over 9 days cause Dan didnt have time to check if it's working or not

(btw all our characters were deleted cause we were inactive for seven days and now we're going to have a rebang. want to join?)

[yin26]

Markos:

LOL! I take it back. He IS consistent! Have you found your own dedicated server? I'll join then. Apolyton Co. has some unfinished business. But joining on the Firaxis server seems like an invitation to...well...nothing, really.

By the way, do you think his bosses ever see the site? Do you think they know about Trade Wars? These are curious questions...

Bigfree:

The MOMENT somebody sues you, you have them post here. Right or wrong, making sense or no, I'll have them pulling their hair out and dropping the suit within days. (...don't quote me on that...) I considered being a lawyer, but I never met a happy lawyer (besides Johnny, of course).

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by Kurgan
Does anybody think that the delay could be because they are working in a HUGE update with a lot of mini-tutorials, downloads,etc?

Well, in the end it seems that my wishful thought was not so far from the truth

[MarkG]

Originally posted by yin26
LOL! I take it back. He IS consistent! Have you found your own dedicated server? I'll join then. Apolyton Co. has some unfinished business. But joining on the Firaxis server seems like an invitation to...well...nothing, really.

actually, it's going to be on the firaxis server again...

By the way, do you think his bosses ever see the site? Do you think they know about Trade Wars? These are curious questions...

i dont know if the "big guys" see their company's site or not....
as for the tw server, i think there was at least one firaxian in the first game.....

[yin26]

Kurgan: But we've known about that for months. See the quote I pulled from the Webpage. And if that IS the case (not confirmed, by the way), then how about this catchy tag on the CURRENT page: "Sorry for the lack of updates. We are planning to roll-out our full-production site ASAP. I will not put any date on it since we all know dates can get pushed back. The only things I can promise is that I'll clean up this site a bit to remove unkept promises (again, sorry) and when you see the new site, you'll (hopefully) feel it was worth the delay! --Dan"

That took me 45 seconds.

[yin26]

Markos:

...and who would be running the game this time? Do you enjoy giving yourself pain or something? LOL!

[MarkG]

Originally posted by yin26
...and who would be running the game this time

Dan will be running the game
but dont worry, we might be able to start the server ourselves if it gets down see the thread in the tw forum

[Jeje2]

Well,
apereantly time for www is limited due to other workduties.
So IMHO important question is which duties?
Does the new Civ-site require all the time? - I'd say no.

So why?
Does this has anything to do with the earlier estimate of Civ3 relelase in Q3/2001?
One good indication could be beta-testers, do they exist already?
I'll repeat my pray here - Please do not release Civ3 in 2001, PLEASE!!!


When was the offcial SMAC site opened? IIRC about 4-6 months before intended release date (early autum - it was then prolonged over new year).

And yes, they have negleted their www-site. (And sadly they could have corrected it with just a couple changes.)

[MarkG]

hey if you had a copy of civ3 would you update the site or would play??? hypocrites!!!

I hardly think that Dan's job application reads: "Make Firaxis's fan's angry".


He has his own good reasons for not telling you, but because a lot of you keep whinghing, he probably has given up and told you that he is updating the site. Which he may probably had hoped would be a surprise.


I suggest doing some work instead of sitting there begging for an update and getting angry because Dan isn't updating the site.

behaving like children and especialy hypocrits won't get you anywhere, will it.

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by me:

How can Dan ignore so many bait we throw at him?

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
We know you want some updates and we are working to make that happen

Heck, I almost catched the big fish, then he suddenly dribbled and escaped from the net

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
The reason there has been no site update is because we are working on rolling out a new, official website that will support the launch of the game and act as the official website from here on out.

Oh my, why so many bosses don't have a clue on the web duty? We don't ask for a brand new site every six month, nice graphics, bell and whistle, we ask for more info, fact and figures.

Your previus site was good enough for us: we don't care of a more official site (wasn't the previous "official enough"?), we want the meat, not another skin

Ok, I suppose I must be polite and thank you for your kind reply to my post ... if only it was a reply at all: it seems more a diplomatic sentence straight from the diplomatic table of Civ III

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by MarkG
the fact that they may wanted to keep it a "surprise" and now it was kind of ruined after your endless rants doesnt pass from you mind of course.....

MarkG, please note I don't like this way to "surprise" me

I stopped to believe into the italian equivalent of Santa Klaus around... 31 years ago and I don't want Sid or Dan take Santa seat, thank you very much

Well, I can go back to sleep now. Please awake me when Firaxis will publish the "surprise"

[yin26]

We hope to launch a full-fledged product site in the spring/summer timeframe.

This was from looong ago. I reposted that for you, Contradiction, and anybody else who cares to continue with the "surprise" farce. We've known about this 'surprise' for months. So hey, Contradiction: SURPRISE!

I hardly think that Dan's job application reads: "Make Firaxis's fan's angry".

Hmmm, are you sure? By the way, at my job today I had to write an important letter to the Secretary General of the AUAP. You know what? I actually WROTE it! Oh, and this you won't believe: I had more than TWO projects going today. Wow. Imagine.

Of course, I'll remember your advice well. Next time I won't write the letter, and when the crap hits the fan, I'll just say: "Yes, I was gonna write the letter as a surprise."

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Adm.Naismith

Oh my, why so many bosses don't have a clue on the web duty? We don't ask for a brand new site every six month, nice graphics, bell and whistle, we ask for more info, fact and figures.

Your previus site was good enough for us: we don't care of a more official site (wasn't the previous "official enough"?), we want the meat, not another skin

i think it's logical to believe that the new site wont be just an easthetic update, but is part of the preparation for the multiplayer features....

[Grumbold]

Beta testing has started and they made Dan sign the NDA? He sits crafting endless site updates he can't release

Looks like I was closer to the truth than I realised and Dan's been building a website we can't see. Like others I just wish an explanatory note telling us not to expect any updates had been posted on the Firaxis site. Still, now we can post daily bugging Dan about when the new site will be up

[Rollo_CH]

Originally posted by Jeje2
I'll repeat my pray here - Please do not release Civ3 in 2001, PLEASE!!!

Why would you say such a thing?? They've been doing this for what? 3 years now, shouldn't it be high time for it to be released?

...and please dont say that a little more polish would do it, its like saying i wont buy a new cpu right now, because there will be better ones next year....

Aiyah


Yin, I already knew that, I read that too, a long time ago, that was not what I was refferring to.

And I have more than 3 projects going, I mean really, so what. There's some guy working coal mines somewhere, he's doing harder work than you and I put together, but what is your point, honestly. Please notice there is no question mark.


I received an email from Dan just today, and it's a lot more than just a skin. Infact it sounds really cool what they are planning on doing, so I can't wait to see it, and I hope others have faith and just sit cool for a bit.

[yin26]

Well, Firaxis claims two years, of which a good portion of that was on paper. Actual code crunching hasn't been going THAT long, at least the way they talk about it. As for a later release, I look at it this way:

Early Release = Download your patches and beg for support from a situation that likely won't make Firaxis much more money.

Later Release = Game already (mostly) patched and the good feeling surrounding the whole thing fuels a second wind at Firaxis to build on the momentum.

Of course, Black and White took 4 years to be released and STILL should have been recalled. But the lesson there is don't let a freak head the company no matter how much money he has...

Of course, I'll remember your advice well. Next time I won't write the letter, and when the crap hits the fan, I'll just say: "Yes, I was gonna write the letter as a surprise."

[yin26]

ContradictioN:

Yes. And the coal miner, I assume, is showing up, doing his work OR getting sacked. That's the point. I'm running out of words to describe it, really. The amount of work is not what's at stake here. In fact, it's the appaling LITTLE amount of work Dan would have to do with the current site that's at issue.

Again, the new site is irrelevant to this entire discussion. We have been talking about the irresponsible way the CURRENT site has been left to rot. Sure, I hope the next site is great. We all do. However, that's not the topic.

As further evidence of what I'm talking about, why should YOU or any one individual be privy to what's going on with the site? Unprofessional. Pure and simple.

So, Markos, add sending inside e-mails to another one of the time-wasters this Wizard is off playing with instead of doing basic Webmaster work.

[Jeje2]

Originally posted by Rollo_CH
Why would you say such a thing?? They've been doing this for what? 3 years now, shouldn't it be high time for it to be released?

Yes, they should be able to release it, but have ever notised that it's not finished yet?
Many major questions are quite unsolved sofar or then FIRAXIS have announced that alto it now works like this it might still change.

So yes, I desperately want Civ3, but I wannt it when it's done and right now it isn't done.
(Frankly, they still have a lot of small details undone. Ex. 1 Jun 2001 Soren Johanssen announced here that the setup screens are still undesigned. After design it takes a while to code it too.)

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by MarkG
i think it's logical to believe that the new site wont be just an easthetic update, but is part of the preparation for the multiplayer features....

MarkG, I worked on a web project, you manage at least one quite big... how long can we cheat ourselves with this?

My point is that updating a web site is not related to any main revamping of it: you can prepare all the features on the background, while publishing a bunch of screenshots gif, or writing down a two page updated FAQ.
You can build the site tree one branch after another, no one will kill you: "work in progress" is the norm, "abandoned site" too, but they are mostly amatorial site, aren't they? Wait, I've just got a hint...

Only PR boss think in large, fat step, because TV ad and press ad works so. The web need another pace, another rythme.
They are dancing Waltz on a Rock&Roll dancing club This is asking for trouble, I tell you.

Yin I actually didn't ask him, he just told me on a side-note.


Look, yin, hear me this time, and this time I will explain myself.


Lets say Dan was going to update the site around the 12th of July, which has supposedly been the guessed date for the next update.

Now, meantime, between the last time he updated, and now, he has been busy busy making a new site, and making the sims golf site, and helping out with the game perhaps even, and even keeping good contact with the fans, a lot more you could even ask for.

Now, the 12th of July comes around, and the new updated site is up, and there is new everything, that'll keep you amused for a good while.



Now you're saying, that he should post up on the site "I'm going to update the site in a few days"

Did he even do that before? with the previous updates? no of course not, and why should he?

As a webdesigner myself, I understand the proudness feeling you get out of creating a site. I understand the good feeling you get when someone goes to your site and makes a big fuss over it. And you usually get that when you surprise them.

And even if this wasn't on Dan's mind, do you really want Dan to say I am going to update the site in 2 days? Heck, he probably doesn't even know if he can update the site in 2 days? He will obviously update the site ASAP, not when you/fans want it to be up.
So he can't make any serious promises, he'd prefer to just upload the site once its all done and working. How can he know that its all going to be working in 2 days time? So it's best for Dan to just keep quiet, and update the site when its done and working. And just like EVERY OTHER TIME the site was updated, DAN TOLD US ON THE FORUMS.


SO LEAVE HIM ALONE! Chrimey, he doesn't come whinghing to you, telling you to hurry up with your work, making him all upset for no real serious reason.

Boy if I was you, I'd apologize, because you have seriously just pulled on your own back collar down a well which you've dug out yourself.

[Rollo_CH]

Yin, I heard it announced in 1998...been waiting since then! .....and waiting.....

Jeje, Yes i agree...but since they dont say much we dont know how far they are in fact...besides that golf-game started only this year and it will be ready before Civ3....oh why oh why?