How Come?

Smash · July 8, 2001, 18:17

Sometimes I can climb a hill or forest with 1 or 2/3 point and sometimes I can't?

Ever send 6 knights to climb an empty hill city 2 squares away that you been working on for a dozen turns only to have them stop short?Then you see a flag re-appear and know Mr. Pikeman has returned and you must start over?

finbar · July 8, 2001, 19:37

Damn fine question, Smash. It's driven me to distraction. In the case of your knights, some of them probably would have climbed the hill, the rest probably wouldn't. Why? The units are identical in every way, down to the number of movement points.

Why is it so?

KrazyHorse · July 8, 2001, 20:09

The movements are randomised for units with lower MPs than the stated movement cost of the terrain in question. I haven't tested it (I'm sure somebody has) but it seems to go something like:

If unit hasn't moved yet this turn, or has only moved on railways, then unit always gets to move.

If unit has moved this turn, the probability of the unit getting to move is: MP/MC where MP is the number of remaining MPs and MC is the stated movement cost of the terrain. The rest is up to a random number generator of some kind.

finbar · July 8, 2001, 22:42

Thanks for that, KH. I figured it had to be something like a random factor in the equation. That damn random factor again!

Smash · July 9, 2001, 01:52

I built up abit as "probing attacks" were failing miserably.It took a bunch o' crusaders to clear the city.But then,not 1 of 6 knights could make it.
Thankfully my counterpart blundered and let me withdraw.(rushed a pike and could have rushed a catapult)

But I sure would like to know if there is any way to know.This square I could only enter from 1 direction-straight #6 key.There must be way of predicting.There is no true randomness in computers...is there?

finbar · July 9, 2001, 03:20

Only when your HD crashes randomly, which always turns out to be when it's full of stuff you haven't backed up.

KrazyHorse · July 9, 2001, 04:49

Not to be too hasty, but my suggestion seems to hold up pretty well. I did 60 tests on a horseman who had moved 1MP worth and then tried to move onto a hill (MC=2). 32 made it, 28 didn't. I also did 60 tests on a settler who'd used up 1/3 MP on a river and then tried to move onte grassland (MC=1). 37 made it, 23 didn't.

Scouse Gits · July 9, 2001, 05:39

I'm fairly certain KH has it right - I have worked on this basis for a couple of years and never encountered a situation where it has been clearly wrong ...

Finbar, my experience is at SP - some odd things happen at MP - the rule may actually be different for MP cities ...

finbar · July 9, 2001, 07:54

SG1 - G'day. Long time no chat, my son. Actually, the same random thing applies to MP as well. Sometimes you can go that extra little bit, sometimes you can't.

rah · July 9, 2001, 08:22

Somewhere deep in my memory, I remember reading that it was random but that being a vet helped your percentages. And that not being at full strength reduced your percentage.

RAH
Ramblings of an old man.

Bird · July 9, 2001, 09:56

Reminds me of something stupid both Ming and I did in an MP game a long time ago, although mine was ultimately stupider.

I had a city on a mountain chokepoint and was defending with phalanxes, having forgotten to put a pikeman in once i dicovered feudalism. Ming sends about six or eight crusaders and takes out the phalanxes. Because of the location of the city, all the crusaders had to attack from the same square. He then sends another dozen crusaders to try to take the city on their second movement, but not one of them can move into the city. In the end, he must have at least a dozen crusaders sitting on a single square next to the city. This probably represents his entire campaign up to that point in the game.

So what do I rush build in the city, having both mathematics and feudalism? That's right boys and girls, a pikeman.

Smash · July 9, 2001, 12:22

Holy smokes Bird.Thats deja vu all over again.Almost exactly what happened cept I had some knights.

Rasputin · July 16, 2001, 06:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Bird

So what do I rush build in the city, having both mathematics and feudalism? That's right boys and girls, a pikeman.

surely rush building a catapult would be useless as it wouldnt be ready till the followuing turn any way.. its not like you are the aI who can cheat and build in same turn

Ming · July 16, 2001, 08:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Rasputin
surely rush building a catapult would be useless as it wouldnt be ready till the followuing turn any way.. its not like you are the aI who can cheat and build in same turn

There was plenty of time between the point where he saw my attack had failed to take the city and his turn. He had all the time in the world to rush build a catapult. On the start of his turn the cat would have destroyed the many vet crusaders sitting at his door step. Instead, a sole pikeman appeared in his city on the start of his turn. Needless to say, I took the city on my next turn

SlowwHand · July 16, 2001, 09:05

Did you say, "dad gum" Bird?
At least, eh?

Bird · July 18, 2001, 14:13

Ming's right, Ras, I had plenty of time before my turn came b/c I didn't go next after Ming. I rush built the pikeman and fortified him on my turn. I should have rushbuilt the catapult.

Slowwhand, I suspect I said something a little more colorful than that.

Ribannah · July 20, 2001, 06:35

Quote:

Originally posted by rah
Somewhere deep in my memory, I remember reading that it was random ...

Actually it may not be entirely random. Whether you convert a fractional point into movement seems to depend on both the last results and the order by which you move your units. It doesn't seem like a fully fixed sequence though.

Rasputin · July 21, 2001, 22:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming

There was plenty of time between the point where he saw my attack had failed to take the city and his turn. He had all the time in the world to rush build a catapult. On the start of his turn the cat would have destroyed the many vet crusaders sitting at his door step. Instead, a sole pikeman appeared in his city on the start of his turn. Needless to say, I took the city on my next turn

oh i see what you mean now... his turn hadnt actually started and he rush built the pikeman, sorry read your post wrong...

I hadnt actually though of doing this before, i usually so busy panicking as the othe rplayers level my cities ...

splangy · July 23, 2001, 00:20

maybe its somthing like the oedo years???

Smash · July 23, 2001, 03:50

no thats not it.If you save and reload before trying to climb the hill or whatever you get different results.Sometimes you make it,sometimes you don't.Trying different directions gets the same results.