cruise missile cheat

debeest · July 19, 2000, 02:26

Anybody noticed this one? Once I figured out the "super-stack" trick (only a fighter can attack a stack with a bomber in it, AND the fighter will have to attack the strongest defender in the stack rather than the bomber), I started trying it with battleships so that enemy submarines and battleships couldn't get me. What happened? A cloud of enemy cruise missiles!!! Sometimes one in each of the eight adjacent squares!

Apparently the AI, as always, leaps on the opportunity to cruise-missile the battleship -- but they can't attack the bomber stack, and they don't go home, they just hang there right next to the ship. So on my turn, my ship or, better yet, a single fighter, can take them all out, one by one. What a great way to tease the AIs into wasting their production.

Ming, this should probably get added to the list of cheats.

SandMonkey · July 19, 2000, 13:58

I think that that AI cheat was already doccumented. People have seen fighters standing in mid air after the turn ends. It also goes along with the never sinking triremes. An AI trireme will never sink. But I do like how you suckered the AI into surrendering their cuises. Unfortunetely, they don't always have to build the missiles, they just cheat build them

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SandMonkey

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Mao · July 25, 2000, 22:09

Yeah, you can't make the AI waste production it doesn't make.

July 26, 2000, 03:55

I like my way. I don't build battleships or carriers (after cruise missles are built by ai)- trust me you don't need them against the puny ai. And they never use them on any other naval vessel or unit. Usually my armour will pound them easily when they are taking all the ai's cities.
[This message has been edited by Black Bart (edited July 26, 2000).]

Ming · July 26, 2000, 07:33

I usually like building one battleship, then put it in a battle group of about 4 or 5 ageis cruisers. The AI will then waste most of its production firing cruise missiles at it every turn. It makes those land offensives sooooooooo much easier.

And you too can have your planes or missiles hang in the air safely after your turn. Make sure your unit has one more space left, and use the function key to end your turn. This will also keep ships from sinking. Now, most people (and so do I) consider this a massive cheat that shouldn't be used!
[This message has been edited by Ming (edited July 26, 2000).]

July 26, 2000, 20:13

I was going to say Ming!! I'm sure you would never use such a cheat. Something I"d like to see revamped is the air unit rules in civ3. But that's another thread...

Ming · July 27, 2000, 07:08

The only time I ever used it was when it was first discovered, and I wanted to see if it actually worked... (everybody in the game had to give it a try)

We may all argue whether incremental buying, using diplo's to move troops through ZOC's, preworking settlers, and other little things are cheats or not... But this one ranks right up their with creating non units and trading units back and forth in the same turn to create infinite movement... definite cheats!

N35t0r · August 3, 2000, 10:23

but nothing beats MY cheat!!!!!

Mao · August 3, 2000, 11:47

That's because your cheat actually IS a cheat

debeest · September 5, 2000, 21:18

In the "AI cheats" thread, a couple of people have commented that the AI can build unlimited numbers of cruise missiles, and that they have unlimited range. It reminded me of this thread. My experience when I use this cheat is that after a couple of turns, the AI cruise missiles begin to be few and far between; i.e., they seem to run out of backstock. Moreover, when my spies visit enemy cities, those cities often have 0, 1, or 2 missiles in them, suggesting that (1) they don't just create them instantaneously at the point when they want to use them, and (2) they don't have an infinite supply. My belief, therefore, is that they actually do build the missiles naturally, and have a large supply because their production costs are only 60%/80% of ours and because they haven't a brain in their head to direct production choices. Does anybody have actual evidence for free missile production?

Incidentally, SandMonkey, what I originally meant in the first post was that this seemed like a HUMAN cheat that Ming should add to THAT list.

SandMonkey · September 5, 2000, 21:28

The reason people assumed that the AI cheat built the units was because you would get slammed on the turn that you get the message saying "______ have discovered the secret of Rocketry" (or the equivelent). Since rush building a unit would give it to you the turn AFTER you discover something, the only logical explanation is that the AI cheat builds them on that turn, and lots of em.

War4ever · September 5, 2000, 21:34

the ai missles cruise or nuke, have unlimmited range and there for can strike your city from any region on the map and they will find the city without SDI but they will also waste countless missles on protected cities as well

Sten Sture · September 5, 2000, 21:55

Using reduced cruise missle costs will prevent the AI from saving them and only firing them at big shield targets. They do build a truckload of them at normal cost, but not use them. I have yet to see convincing evidence from using the cheat menu to look at the AIs cities that they just create cm's out of thin air. Build orders can and will be changed in mid-turn though if they research the tech.

debeest · September 6, 2000, 15:25

If the army helmet fits, wear it.... (How can I put one of those little smiley faces here?)

Are you quite sure the AI will nuke a city that has an SDI actually within it? I'm pretty sure that with me, it has infallibly attacked the cities without SDI and ONLY those cities; the only time I've seen SDI protection is when the SDI itself is in a different nearby city.

Scouse Gits · September 6, 2000, 17:17

duh - double post - sorry

[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited September 07, 2000).]

Scouse Gits · September 6, 2000, 17:22

debeest - when you make your posting you will see a blue "Smilies Legend" to the left of the window in which you are typing - clicking on this sends you to a page with all the shorthands for smilies ie to get

you need to type colon right-parenthesis - to see what I mean use the 'edit' command on this post ...
As for your other question - I hate nukes and very seldom see them so I can't help ...
Good civin'

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
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SandMonkey · September 6, 2000, 20:37

I have had the AI try and nuke one of my cities that had SDI, but it has only happened once or twice, they should know better.

And Sten, do you mean that the AI will change the build orders once they discover something so that they can build that unit on the turn that they discovered the tech for that unit? (I am sure that was worded HORRIBLY, but I hope you get my point). If so, that would alter a widely held belief (well, at least I believed in it) that the AI could cheat-build units at it's leisure.

debeest · September 7, 2000, 00:07

I agree with Sten on this: the AI doesn't get to cheat-build unlimited amounts of missiles. The cheat is the one already deescribed, where the AI gets to change build orders in the turn where it gets the new tech.

War4ever, as I imagine you've noticed, the AI will NEVER send nuclear missiles against a city with SDI in it, and it will pound unprotected cities mercilessly. What I only figured out recently is, if a city is within the 3-square radius of protection of another city's SDI, the AI will pound it just as hard, using up all of its nukes without ever figuring it out.

Has anybody ever verified that missiles were coming from "impossible" distances rather than from unlocated cities or subs? Or are people just taking someone's casual word for that because they do SEEM to come out of nowhere?

War4ever · September 7, 2000, 00:43

debeest are you calling my a warmonger

anyways the ai will waste missles on cities with SDI.... trust me on this one..... as for missles coming out of nowhere.... if you watch the inefficient ai, you will see missles appear out of nowhere either that or i am missing the subs and carriers that they are origionating from

your correct about unprotected cities though, which is why you need to take many cities of a country with nukes.... you will never get the sdi up intime to protect the newly conquered city. However, no nukes come from countries with no cities or very few

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Ah its good to be back.... i smell the fear of opponents being stalked and i tremble as they turn to face me. i hope i remember how to play!

debeest · September 7, 2000, 16:16

Thanks, Git1.

Yep, SandMonkey, that's exactly what it does. It learns a new tech, and in that same building turn it switches from building an outmoded unit to building a state-of-the-art modern unit, and finishes it that same turn. So you, you poor sap, get notified that it's learned flight, and then it immediately shoots down your bomber. Does it all the time. Hey, we would too, if we could -- best possible military tech. But if that's why a lot of people believe that the AI can build units for free or that it can allot its civilization-wide shield production to individual cities however it wants, I'm pretty sure they're wrong.

Scouse Gits · September 8, 2000, 06:05

quote:

But if that's why a lot of people believe that the AI can build units for free or that it can allot its civilization-wide shield production to individual cities however it wants, I'm pretty sure they're wrong.

Yes - but ...
There has to be some rule or constraint upon what, how and at what cost the AI can construct its units/improvements - the trick is finding out what it is. Can we divise some sort of test plan by which we can determine just what is going on and finally remove this from the realms of speculation????
To be fair - I have given it some thought and failed to come up with such a plan - hence the posting!

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"

Sten Sture · September 8, 2000, 17:03

I have an idea. Start the WW2 scenario as the Spanish. Switch civs to the Allies and open the city advisor menu - screen print to clipboard and the defense advisor - also screen print. Switch back to the Spanish. Do this every turn for the first few and the allies will develope Adv Flight. From there I should be able to tell what they produced and what they cheated and whether or not they built any bombers during the turn of discovery. Adjusting (or attempting to at least) the city menues for the production advantage of the AI in deity.

If my schedule works out like usual, I should do this before the Brits put a man on the moon.

debeest · September 11, 2000, 13:37

Personally, I think the production rules for the AI are largely the same as ours, except as already noted here and in the "AI cheats" thread: starting at 80% production cost at deity and dropping to 60% when the human is Supreme (90% at emperor, dropping to 70%), and being able to switch freely between types of production, and being able to build a new type of unit on the very turn when it learns the tech. Does anybody have any clear reason to think there are other production advantages for the AI?