Naval Warfare. - Page 2

Scouse Gits · August 7, 2000, 17:45

SmartFart - Sure the Lighthouse is a very useful wonder - but Pyramids? Please share your thoughts!

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SG (2)

Smash · August 7, 2000, 18:34

Try a solo game where the Pyramids are the first wonder you build.You may be surprised.I had forgotten how good Pyramids can be.

Spider · August 9, 2000, 03:58

Sun Tsu's -vs- Magellan's? Without a doubt, hands down, I'd take Sun Tsu's in a naval battle. Obviously, Magellan's is worth more during peace time, but if at war those veteran units are deadly, and if it comes to a protracted battle at sea, the guy with Sun Tsu's will prevail.

Between the discoveries of Magnetism (Frigate unit) and Advanced Flight (Bomber unit) control of the oceans is paramount in an all out war, such as you have. I'd be pumping out the naval units and looking for ways to force my opponent to do the same. You should get a 60-40 advantage or there abouts. (I.E. You'd lose 40 ironclads to your opponents 60.) The main thing is gaining undisputed control of the oceans. What good is a 7 movement transport that's afraid to leave it's port?

The real question is going to be "Who has Leonardo's Workshop?" The man with Sun Tsu's can struggle along without it, but the guy with Magellans's will be devastated without Leonardo's - the comination of vet units and instant upgrades will ensure control of the oceans. The only tactic left to your opponent would be expensive bribery.

August 9, 2000, 18:02

quote:

Originally posted by Spider on 08-09-2000 03:58 AM

The real question is going to be "Who has Leonardo's Workshop?"

Horse of course

A lot of this analysis is wrong because I have magellans AND all my ships are vets thru barracks.

Mao · August 9, 2000, 18:24

You two are playing a duel? Are you just allowing Makeo to stay alive for the fun of it?

smilo · August 9, 2000, 19:33

quote:

Originally posted by Smash on 08-07-2000 06:34 PM
Try a solo game where the Pyramids are the first wonder you build.You may be surprised.I had forgotten how good Pyramids can be.

Hmmm, I though it was common sence that the first wonder you have to get down is hanging gardens ? Food & growth is not a problem in early games, happines is. Building pyramids to soon is like getting temples constructed in 1 unit cities : bad choice.

cavebear · August 9, 2000, 20:24

Smilo - Depends on game level...

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Mao · August 10, 2000, 00:08

quote:

Originally posted by Smash on 08-07-2000 06:34 PM
Try a solo game where the Pyramids are the first wonder you build.You may be surprised.I had forgotten how good Pyramids can be.

In later times, wouldn't Adam Smith's be more practical? As granaries can be easily produced. I'd take Adam's over Pyramids in mid-game.

Chainsaw · August 10, 2000, 00:36

In my early Civ-years, I always used to build pyramids as my first wonder. Your cities grow twice as fast, only the unhappiness is a problem. But if you manage to get pyramids, oracle and mike´s, then growth and happiness combined are a strong weapon, playing expansionist.
I joined this forum about five months ago and have started playing expansionist games with the SSC since then. I´m not sure yet which WoW-combo I prefer (SSC-WoWs - pyramids+Oracle+mike´s), but pyramids in my eyes are quite powerful.

mao:

Adam Smith´s is better, that´s my opinion. Boosts your income when playing perfectionist (like I do most often). But by that time, when ASTC becomes available, I´d my PC someone has already built the pyramids.

Mao · August 10, 2000, 00:38

Oh yeah, I guess that's true; Pyramids come before ASTC. But the Pyramids seems...so...much...easier.

SmartFart · August 10, 2000, 22:02

We had some debate about Pyramids in multiplayer section recently.
I am too lazy to search for a link,but basically,you may produce settlers faster.
Why bother with Granaries when for the cost of 4 you may have it everywhere?
And when ASTC become available,Granaries aren't needed anymore.
Thread name is 'Pyramids-The Ultimate Wonder'.

SmartFart · August 11, 2000, 18:17

quote:

Originally posted by smilo on 08-09-2000 07:33 PM
Hmmm, I though it was common sence that the first wonder you have to get down is hanging gardens ? Food & growth is not a problem in early games, happines is. Building pyramids to soon is like getting temples constructed in 1 unit cities : bad choice.

With all due respect,but Hanging Gardens were my 1st choice 7-8 years ago. Pyramids could do much more tasks than simply cut off food box into half. (I really don't wanna another debate,but i couldn't resist to reply on this one

)

smilo · August 18, 2000, 16:22

smartfart,

Don't be mysterious, enlighten us with the other great things pyramids can do.

EdwardTKing · August 19, 2000, 21:02

The other very useful feature about having the Pyramids is that this Wonder enables you to change government from Democracy/Republic later in the game without losing engineers/ settlers from starvation during those few turns when food production plummets from 4 (farmland) to 2 (anarchy) from large cities supporting many settlers. [However this is only important if you don't have the Statue of Liberty.]

Scouse Gits · August 21, 2000, 05:57

Eh!

Wrong game Edward - that was the case in Civilization, but I fear that benefit of the Pyramids no longer works in Civ 2 - you need the Statue of Liberty to change governments without anarchy - although oedo recent researches suggest that we may be on our way to pain free revolutions
Good civin'

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

SCG · August 21, 2000, 08:34

SG[1], I think he means that if a city grows naturally with the pyramids, it only loses 1/2 its food supply, not all. And with really large cities, having that granary effect can make the difference between having enough food and not having enough food while in anarchy if the city grew recently. Look at the OCC 15 logs about people losing engineers due to famine. I lost 1 during that revolt to democracy and other people had engineer/famine related problems as well.

Edit: with oedo's discovery about the game checking for anarchy only every 4th turn, that point about the pyramids becomes somewhat mute, since you can now simulate that SoL effect of only 1 round of anarchy without every having to build it.

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April Cantor: Sire, in order to expand further we must first gain favor of the King

SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince

*goes off and starts gifting gold and techs*
[This message has been edited by SCG (edited August 21, 2000).]

SmartFart · August 27, 2000, 17:13

Smilo: I am not mysterious. I am simple too lazy to write same thing again.
Somewhere in multiplayer section is a thread named Pyramids - The Ultimate Wonder.
You may find some things what pyramids could do,besides cutting food box into half.
Don't expect anything revolutionary

kent-jo · September 4, 2000, 10:42

quote:

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse on 08-09-2000 06:02 PM
Horse of course

A lot of this analysis is wrong because I have magellans AND all my ships are vets thru barracks.

I thougt you needed Port Facility to produce VET ironclads....
Is this true AH??????

Scouse Gits · September 5, 2000, 06:36

kent-jo: The lighthouse assures that naval units are veterans as well as stopping the sinking trireme syndrome - it works a little like Sun Tsu's in the sense that all new naval units are vets, but you don't get the overnight recovery that a Port Facility eventually yields
Good civin'

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"

AsSmAn · September 11, 2000, 13:51

When 15 subs are around, stuffed whit cruise missiles and with support from 5-8 battleships and 10-12 air units, Zun or not, you better run!!