World War AC

[Tokamak]

(unlurks)


Hey folks! I thought I'd stop lurking from a moment and actually contribute to this place.


I just played the most entertaining SP game of SMAC/X ever. I thought I'd share what I did with y'all.

Feeling in the mood for a didactic, good vs evil type game, I divided the factions into two warring groups, the power mad "Coailition," made up of the Believers, Spartans and the Hive, and the nominally peaceful "Grand Alliance," made up of the Gaians, the Peacekeepers, the Morgans, and the University (10 free energy credits to whomever knows where I took those names from). I modified the diplomacy settings so that the Coailition were permanently pacted, and all had infiltration on each other (you'll see why in a moment). The Alliance forces, having been caught unawares and unprepared, haven't even banded together yet. I did make sure they all hated Coailition members, though (vendetta and atrocity victims, all).

Then, the most important change: I added "techshare 1" to each of the Coailition faction.txt files. This forces to Coailtion AIs to coordinate their research efforts.

To help out the anemic AI, I also used a heavily preterraformed map, complete with forests and even a few boreholes and condesers (these are vital to a faction's long term success, but the AI almost never builds them). Ned and the others from the "Hardest SP game ever" thread deserve credit for this idea.

The player starts out as one of the Alliance factions, and must contact and organize the others before they all get conquered by the Coailition.

For the first time ever, I actually lost a game against the AI! The multiplicative advantages of having three factions pooling their research is unreal! They had fusion power by 2150! Awesome! It was all I could do just to make the Allinace forces start working together, much less actually try to harm the Coailiton.

The second time I tried, I had to very carefully plan out my builds several turns in advance. I've never played a game where such intense management was needed just to stay competitive. I had a great time. STill am, actaully, since it's 2148 and I'm still alive (but badly beseiged).

Anyone else out there try something like this?

A few notes...

I went ahead and placed the factions manually. This takes away from the exploration aspect of the game, but the added meaness I can add to the AI was worth it. I was able to carefully preterraform their capitals, portecting them from stupid AI decisions. Also, I made sure that every Alliance member was being threatened by at least one Coailiton member. That was important.

[Velociryx]

Sounds excellent! If you'd not mind, mail the map and mods!

email: WebMaster@velociryx.every1.net

-=Vel=-

[Robby Boy]

Yeah I'd like to try it too.

Can you send to theoneandonlyrob@ntlworld.com

Thanks

[Earwicker]

Oooh, please count me in, too. Always on the lookout for a good scenario challenge in SMAC! Thanks!

kasimir@sprynet.com

[Tokamak]

Wow! I didn't think people would actually be interested in this. Cool! Everyone should have gotten a zipped copy of the scenario, along with a readme and the relevant faction.txt

If you didn't get the zip archive, or if for some reason the scenario isn't working, you can reach me at nsvad@austin.rr.com

[Tokamak]

Ack! I forgot to mention in the readme that this scenario was intended to be played on Transcend level. Just thought you'd like to know...

[Walt]

I'd enjoy playing this, too.

If you could, would you send me the relevant files?

Thanks!

- Walt

[Tokamak]

No problem! But I'll need your e-mail first

[Cybergod]

Is it SMAX only? If YEA, then don't send me anything. If NEY, then post me the files on kibernick@yahoo.com PLZ, PLZ!

[Sprayber]

This sounds like something you should sent to MarkG to post here on Apolyton. Yeah I know it takes forever and a day to get posted but this sounds like a mod that would make the game interesting.

[Tokamak]

It's not really "publishing" quality. It's just a crude setup I made for my own personal enjoyment. However, the unexpected response I've gotten here is motivating me to create a "real" mod. I think I'll call it "SMAC Down 2100," or something of that ilk.

Cybergod: While the scenario is in SMAX, there is no reason why I couldn't make a SMAC copy. If I have trouble sleeping again tonight, I'll whip this up for ya.


I'd just like to say that I'm really bowled over by the very friendly response I've gotten here. I would never have considered trying to make a mod if you people hadn't been so enthusiastic. Thanks all!

[theohall]

Or send the scenario to the Chironian Guild.

This sounds like a real challenge.

Yet another interested party: theohall@interconnect.net

[Avenoct]

Lumping along with Cybergod in the darker Smac-only nets..if you do come up with a Smac version send it! That sounds like a fun, if nearly impossible scenario.

-Smack Smack

[Velociryx]

The SMAC-Down game so far:

Initial Impressions at landing:
WOW! What eye popping terrain! Lush and green, with tons of specials and monoliths! Never mind the fact that it’s essentially 3 against 1, this is good land!

Yep….and from there, I got taught several lessons in humility, watching in slack-jawed amazement as The Hive?! Snapped up the HGP in 2119. My opinions regarding the land I started out on remains unchanged, but my perception of the bad guys is….vastly more respectful.

So, I’m going about my business and hoping for the best. I must say, it’s a very atypical game so far, both in terms of colonization and progress. The first thing I noted was how fast everything started coming together. That was both a blessing and a curse, but I’ll say that there’s no way on Chiron I could have expanded any faster….as it was, my formers were totally blown away….completely incapable of keeping up with the rampant growth of bases and production of colony pods. In fact, they’re STILL out building roads to connect all my bases so I can get at least some semblance of a defense network in place.

Speaking of defense, here’s another good example of how the game has been atypical. I have ten bases, and all of one scout patrol. He’s a veteran, and has been shuttled out to my most forward base. The other nine….totally empty.

One thing I am really enjoying about the game so far is the fact that there’s something going on almost every turn. One of the enemy factions beginning a new SP, forest spreading like wildfire, a new tech advance coming in….very fast paced game. Some might say it’s almost out of control it’s so fast, but I’m liking it very much!

Here then, is a synopsis of my game thus far. I have no idea how this compares to the experiences of other folks, but I figured it’d make a decent start for comparing results.

Initial Strategy:
Having read the Readme file that came with the game, I was fully expecting some tough AI, and probably lots of probe actions. Because of that, I promised myself I’d only keep expanding until some other faction showed up on the fringes. To that end, I wanted to build one of my earlier bases out some distance from the starting base, and backfill from there.

The result was ten, which is convenient cos they all fit on the f4 screen without scrolling. Ten bases founded before Lady Miriam's Believers popped up on the ol’ radar screen, founding a base some twelve tiles from my most forward base.

That was enough for me, so I stopped expanding and set about focusing on vertical investment in preparation for a pop boom to try and dig myself out of dead last place.

Here’s the timeline so far:

Initial allocation 40/0/60
2102 Tech! Industrial Base
2103 Monitoring Station founded
2105 Tech! Industrial Economics – Switched to Market then and there!
2108 Tech! Planetary Networks
2111 Otkrietia Discovery founded near two mineral specials! This looks like the place to try and build an SP.
2112 Tech! Industrial Automation – Adding Wealth immediately!
2113 Begin work on the Virtual World at O. Discovery
2114 The Hive?! Discovers Secrets of the Human Brain! OUCH
2115 Tech! Biogen//Also founded Koppernigk Observatory
2118 Budushii Dvorr Founded
2119 Yang completes the Genome Project. Tech for me! Social Psy
2120 Climactic Research founded
2122 Mendelev College founded
2123 Tech! Progenetor Psych
2125 The Spartans!!?? Beat me to the VW
2127 Gagarin Memorial founded
2128 Tech! Adaptive Doctrine – switching to the PEG// Also founded Academgorodok
2129 New Azarmas Founded
2130 All bases building crawlers, ‘cept for my single “Project Base.”

Observations so far:
The AI is exceedingly strong. I know I’m behind in tech, because they’re working on projects that I’m not even close to having the tech for. The upshot is that I’ll have Ethical Calc. In two years, and from there, it’s a short hop to restriction lifting. I’m currently getting techs every four years, which should (if that holds) see me building treefarms in the mid 40’s and prepping for a boom.

The upshot is, being behind in tech WITH a research oriented faction, my tech rate is less than it would otherwise be

I’ve had good luck so far, where worms are concerned. No rogue worms have popped up to attack my bases (good thing, as nine of the ten are empty!), and all ten of my formers are still alive and well, although they’re playing catch-up where terraforming is concerned.

General plan:
Because my formers are so horribly behind, after I build a crawler or two at each base, I’ll go back and build another former at each base (I have no garrison troops to speak of, so the support hit will be nominal, giving me a total support cost of 1m per base, two at University Base (which started with a Scout). The formers are being aided by the natural spread of forest, and further, by the truly excellent condition of the land we start on. Often, I can do fairly well when a base grows by just harvesting from a tile in its natural state. Still, doubling the number of crawlers in the field will go far in undoing the slower terraforming rate I’m under, having missed the Weather Paradigm.

Once the formers are out, I’ll put a synth/trance probe (Inf-based) in each base, and a few “regular” infantry based probes besides—I’d like to get three probes each in the two bases I’ve got “facing” the Believers, leaving one in all my interior bases, and two each in bases on or near the northern coast. Once I get to that point, I’ll start worrying about offensive (speeder-based) probes to do a little infiltration.

It was a stinging blow to lose the VW to the Spartans, of all people, but I regarded the PEG as a worthy substitute. Given free network nodes AND energy banks, the cost of maintaining those hologram theaters on my own will be pretty easy to bear. It DOES change the order of things a bit, since I find myself lacking the “automatic” drone control of having the VW, but I can live with that. At this point, I’m just happy I GOT an SP.

Given my overall plan, I see myself making HEAVY use of armored formers on the defense, and as the bad guys close in, I’ll need to start operating my formers in pairs to prevent subversion.

The “front” that’s developing is fairly broad, but terraforming will help here. Just to the east of my “Project Base,” I’ve got the Upland Wastes, a broad expanse of relatively dry terrain. If I forest it, drop a few sensors down selectively, and put no roads in, it should give me a nice natural barrier to guard against probe and rover attacks from there.

I predict though, that the main trouble spot will be the “corridor” leading to my initial bases. It’s a natural valley filled with lush, green tiles, the Borehole cluster on the valley floor. When my scout found the place, I knew I had to keep it out of the hands of the AI. Trouble is, keeping it might be a bit of a challenge.

I’m having to guesstimate as to the character of the rest of the continent, as I have not yet had an opportunity to explore the rest, but if my guess is correct, given the AI’s love of special terrain tiles and the overall layout of what I CAN see, there will be a natural inclination on the part of Miriam (and God-knows-who-else) to be drawn to that area like a magnet. Bad news for me, since they’ll likely have more bases, more population, and better productivity. If I lose the corridor, I lose the game, as it will expose ALL of my remaining bases to attack (I didn’t know it at the time, but my expansion ran like long fingers, curving gently around both sides of the valley). That’s cool, because eventually, if I can solidify my position in the valley, it’d make a great spot to relocate the HQ to, with an eye toward further expansion.

Ahhh, but I’m getting ahead of myself. At this point, there’s no guarantee that I can even keep the corridor safe, but I’m already working on that.

I know I should make the trip down mobility lane soon, to open up Flex as a possibility and get a few probe foils out hunting, but being behind in tech already has increased my resolve to get Enviro. Ec. in the hope that the influx raw population (from the boom that will shortly follow the arrival of that tech) and energy will help catapult me over them.

Anyway, kudos to the map/mod maker for an interesting and enjoyable game so far. First time I’ve EVER seen a Secret Project completed before 2120, and the first time I haven’t had my pick of early game SP’s in a really long time.

Good stuff.



-=Vel=-

[death_head]

Looks like one sexy map!

cppwhiz@juno.com

[Tokamak]

Sounds a lot like what I've been going through. It's vital to get and hold the borehole cluster. If Yang gets it, he'll have a massive production center just a few turns from your HQ, at which point you may as well surrender.

I found that my expansion generally goes in two directions: one finger goes southwest towards the Bore Cluster, and possibly as far west as the coast, and the other follows the trail of special resources south, in the direction of the Sunny Mesa. There will be intense fighting over control of taeh territory there with Miriam. On my very best game, I was actually able to surround the Sunny Mesa with bases (I confess that I was using the "wimpy" option of starting with the Weather Paradigm). The bases themselves never grow into anything great, as I never had the time to properly create an energy park, but they did make a good buffer for my core bases.

I suggest going straight for Centauri Ecology after getting IndAuto. The Empath Guild is probably the quickest way to contact your aliies. beleive it or not, Morgan or Diedre probably already has Enivronmental Economics, and will be happy to trade with you.

Really, this scenario is about coordinating your research with your friends. The Coalition starts out with a huge edge, being already in contact with one another (and being to forced to cooperate in a psuedo-intelligent manner by the Techshare power). The only saving grace of the allies is that if they organize, they'll have four people making simulteaonous breakthroughs, versus the Coalition's three. The Coalition factions are bigger, and therefore produce more raw energy, but one of them is Miriam, who sucks at research, while the Allies leader is the University. If you avoid being inflitrated (hard because either Yang or Miraim almost always siezes the governorship), you can actually maintain near perfect tech parity with the enemy.

Just fair warning... when the AI decides to get serious about attacking you, it doesn't kid around. Expect HUGE parades of rovers and infantry (10-20 at a time, with a similar force just a few turns behind), with probe teams mixed in.

I found myself using armored probes as a way of circumventing my support and morale problems. They can be mass produced and then sent on "training missions" to the enemy bases. The ones that survive and improve get upgraded. The only problem with this is that while they work great against convenentional forces, they are usually at a morale disadvantage against attacking probes, against whom their expensive armor doesn't count. You can't allievate this problem with SE choices either, since you are the University. This means that a few probe team assaults can quickly strip your base of defenders, making it vulnerable to a normal assault.

Also, someting annoying that I discovered about the game: when a base is attacked, and the only defenders are armored probe teams, the probes defend normally (and oftentimes quite well), but if you have even one normal milatary unit there, your probes are completely ignored! The enemy will kill the scout patrol and then seize the base. Your armored probes are banished to the next closest base, without them even trying to protect their home! Has anyone else had this problem?

Also, let me know what Santaigo does. I haven't had time to play through an air power era game (I keep dying), and this is when I expect her to start becoming a problem. In theory, she should start plastering your north coast with Needlejets and missiles, and possibly even get around to a marine assault on University Base (although the AI rarely ever conducts amphibous operations).

[death_head]

I've had that problem where the probe defenders defer to a "combat" unit. Unfortunately, there is no way to get around it that I know of. Guess you'll have to actually make those scouts scout.

[Tokamak]

Has eveyone who has requested the scenario gotten it? It's hard to keep track.

Cybergod and Smack: I have to do some work downtown today, but I'll get around to making a SMAC friendly version of the game. I'm concerned that the "techshare" power might not have been implemented as a faction power in SMAC. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

When I get around to making an "official" SMAC Down 2100, I'll be sure to make a SMAC compatable version (it stay consistant with the name, if nothing else).

[Tokamak]

Ack! Forgot something...

If you do decide to create some "buffer" baes, DON'T connect them to your road network! When they fall (and they eventaully will), you won't have time to react. This is how I lost my first three attempts.

[Velociryx]

Ohhhh that’s nasty! You just answered a question I had about where Yang was…I can assume then, that I’ll be seeing the boys in blue making an appearance in my neck of the wood soon? Yikes! On the same continent with Yang AND Miriam! Wow…that’s brutal!

Good point about heading for Centauri Empathy sooner, rather than later. If I get fried this run through, that’s exactly what I’ll do. In this game, one of my allies has already built the Empath Guild (can’t remember who…it was late, I’ll check tonight!…prolly Dee tho), but won’t call a vote! Grrrr….so I keep waiting around, hoping that council is called so I can finally meet and greet the allies, but….silence on the comm so far.

::shaking my head:: Yang and Miriam….wow. I guess I’ll need to make “clean” a big priority too, so I can stand up to those big assaults, and once I’m in contact with my allies, I think I’ll be seeing tech parity shortly. As it stands, tech in four this early in the game should at least keep me viable till I can mingle with my friends. Hope so, anyway.

And Santiago to the North of me. I’ve not seen any trail signs of her yet, but I’ll keep an eye out. Also, that plays pretty well with my planned defenses for the region, but, I guess I’ll need to squeeze in at least one more base at some point, to bolster my northern port situation for an eventual offensive. Good to know!

So far, I’ve not seen hide nor hair of any enemy units, and the only reason I “saw” Believing base was that she founded it in one of those mysteriously uncovered segments of the map, but like I said, that was enough for me!

I’m also intrigued by how far south your expansion took you. I’ve got all ten of my bases into a really tight pocket, three branching south west from University Base, following the northern “lip” of the BoreHole valley (which I’ve taken to calling the “Land of the Lost” for some reason), Uni. Base itself, four more bases branching out toward the upland wastes, curving around the other lip of the valley, and two bases down on the valley floor, one fairly near the current capitol, and the other one on the south side of the cluster—‘bout two tiles south of them. But that’s as far south as I went. From the sound of it, I missed out on some pretty tremendous resource specials….I might be doomed already then, but we’ll see….wish me luck man!

-=Vel=-

[Tokamak]

Your strategy is probably more sound than mine. I just have an irrational attachment to the Sunny Mesa!

I'm guessing your base with two mineral resouces is about in the spot about 10 squares south of University Base. That's all the southern expansion that you'll really need.

Guess I kinda gave away some surprizes there. I keep forgetting that while I started out knowing where the enemy was, y 'all don't.

Also, I forgot to mention in the readme that the Upland Wastes don't exist anymore. I cleared them out and soaked them with a Condenser. Otherwise, Miriam's growth would've been severely hampered.

I'm not sure that Free Market was the best idea. I think that in the long run, Planned will do you better. Remember, once you get the Alliance formed, the research you've done so far will be largely irrelevant. I even find myself deliberately choosing esoteric paths along the tech tree, just to avoid redundant effort.

Some concerns...

The real goal of this scenario is to create a situation in which the AI is a credible threat to the player for the entire game. I'm hoping to see a game that is still very much in question, even in the HabDome era. The problem is that, even with all the improvements I made, the AI is still just not a genius. Even with an inferior postion, a human can better organize his/her holdings and gain a huge edge in efficeincy. These gains are cumulative over time. I'm worried that by the time the space age comes, the AI won't build satellites and will fall WAY behind. At that point, the much-vaunted SMAC-down will devolve into just another game where the question of a human victory is 'when', instead of 'if'.

Is there any kind of scenario scipt that could add satellites to the AI mid-game? Civ 2 had a scenario editor powerful enough to do stuff like that, but I don't think AC has anything even close.

[Velociryx]

Hmmm…Interesting observations from the map maker. If I crash and burn on this run through, I’ll definitely see how sticking with Planned plays out. Good point tho….the extra industry and growth during those first 30 turns might turn out to be of greater value than the money and quick research. Mostly, I’d just never had the ability to make a Market switch that quick before, so I couldn’t resist trying it out!

Not to worry ‘bout giving away a few surprises. The north coast looked too inviting to be a gimmie, and the readme mentioned something about Santiago and sea power, so I figured that’s where she’d make her appearance. Yang was a bit of a surprise, but I suspect he’ll make his presence known sooner, rather than later.

It’s funny, too. All the discussion I’ve been involved in recently about the value of fringe bases, and I’m suddenly neck deep in a game where I’m not at all sure I can even develop any fringe bases. They would certainly be valuable in blunting attacks against my core bases, but I’m not sure I’ll have the time or opportunity. I suppose I’ll have to wait and see how quickly I can boom the ten I’ve got to max size. If I can do that and drop back to market—I assume by this point I’ll be in contact with my allies, and speedy research will be desirable again-—before Yang and friends come calling in any serious way, I may have time to establish a couple of listening posts out on the border. That’d be sweet, but I’m not counting on it. No…most likely, I’ll have to resort to fighting in the streets of the base in the thick of the borehole cluster. Not what I’d prefer, but very likely what I’ll have to do.

As to the late game AI…from what I’ve seen so far, I’d say you have little to worry about. They’ve been beating me to the punch almost every time where projects are concerned, and I can only imagine all the infrastructure they’ve been able to put in place. If that’s any indication at all, I’d say they’ll be right there in the thick of things where the space race is concerned.

Miriam doesn’t bother me. Never mind her 25% attack bonus. If the baddies have a weak link in the chain, I’d regard her as it. No…I’ve got a hunch that the real PIA is going to be everybody’s favorite Chairman. Seeing him scarf up the HGP nineteen turns into the game REALLY got me thinking hard about how he’s making use of that wonderful industrial capacity. He’s gonna be tough, and I doubt Santiago will be a slouch herself! I dunno…maybe Miriam will surprise me, but of the three, she’s the one I’m least worried about.

So far, I’d have to give the map and mod five stars out of five….it’s been a fantastic game, and I’ve only uncovered a teeny little corner of the map! Besides, I really like the fact that I’ve got 10 techs in thirty game years….even if most of them prove to be redundant, it makes the early game feel as though I’m trying to take on all three of the bad guys alone, and beat them in tech (or at least stay somewhere in the same city where the ballpark is located…

-=Vel=-

[The Commodore]

Wow, Vel should be paid for this, he's addvertizing...anyway, I'd like that map, SMAX is fine...

jbgibson@arilion.com

[Cybergod]

Originally posted by Tokamak
Cybergod and Smack: I have to do some work downtown today, but I'll get around to making a SMAC friendly version of the game. I'm concerned that the "techshare" power might not have been implemented as a faction power in SMAC. Can anyone confirm or deny this

There isn't a share tech with infiltrated factions thing in SMAC, but there is discover tech known to # number of factions thing. Hope that works

In this scenario/mod, are you forced to play as University? (Sorry for eing uninformed, but I thought that you could choose from Lal, Zak, Dee or Mor ()

[death_head]

I'm sure it wouldn't be too much trouble to change the faction you wanted to play as...

(for no particular reason)

[Blake]

Please send it to me, bmw40@student.canterbury.ac.nz, SMAX fine.

[Tokamak]

Originally posted by Cybergod


There isn't a share tech with infiltrated factions thing in SMAC, but there is discover tech known to # number of factions thing. Hope that works

In this scenario/mod, are you forced to play as University? (Sorry for eing uninformed, but I thought that you could choose from Lal, Zak, Dee or Mor ()

You could play as a different faction, but for the game to work the way it is intended, you'd have to use the editor to manually change the ownership of the bases with another faction.

If you want to use a faction not already in the game, you'll have a tougher time. The only 'real' way to do it would be to just create a new scenario, using the same map

However, you could do a reasonably good conversion by just using the "reload faction" option and inserting a different factio.txt The new faction will look like the old one, but will play just fine.

The discover tech thing should work just fine. I have to see my girlfriend tonight, but I'll get around to making an SMAC version soon, promise.

Vel: well shucks, pardner... ah shore do appreeciate yore right kindly comments... (blush)



Also, I'm already running ideas through my head about an "official" SMAC Down 2100, with a tailor made map and custom text. I'll keep everyone posted.


I just noticed that I can add attachments to my posts. I'm going to try to post the zip with this message. Let's see if it works...

As those of you whom I e-mailed already know...

"The readme is addressed to Vel, since I wrote it after seeing his post, and I'm too lazy to change it. I'm sure you can handle the resulting indentity crisis."

[JustinSane]

Great scenario Tokamak! I edited it to play as the Planet Cult, and everything is going well, but i've run into a rather odd problem. I can't seem to build either mindworms or IOD's, and I do have both Centauri Empathy and Centauri Meditation. I checked alpha.txt, and prereqs were not disabled. Do you know what is going on there, or how to fix it? Not being able to build native is putting something of a dent in my strategy, since I've been bee-lining towards Centauri Genetics, for the Locusts. I love the map though! 2155 and I'm only 6 techs from Centauri Genetics! The alliance is cooperating nicely on research, as well. Everything would be perfect if I could just build my mind worms

[Avenoct]

I'm pretty sure in the SMAC SE that there is the choice to force cooperation (with techs?) and force allies. It would be a bit different to use the factiontext to add the ability SHARETECH, 2 or whatever it is there. In that case the Coalition would gain the Alliance's techs, or whoever developed them. Not nice. Check in the SE. The faction option is different as Cybergod mentions.

-Smack

[death_head]

I've been beaten like 5 times. Time to rethink the all-out assault strategy....