The Chiron Chronicle: Discussions (Restart 3)

[Guardian]

Originally posted by Sprayber
(...)and having a Spartan influence that close to the planetary council base and Pirate home waters appeals to her sense of what goes around comes around, ala Athens outpost.

Well, what can I say...
Sounds like Santiago, all right... (*smirk*)

Originally posted by Sprayber
The UN navy wouldn't want to be accused of stiffling trade would it. That would be very un diplomatic of the UN. Besides, restriction of trade can sometimes go both ways.

Well... (*grumble*)... you do have a point...
We're pretty darned suspicious about your "trade" though...
We'll see what happens...

Sprayber, great job with the jpg maps and pretty cool

Ain't SNS Spartan going to the PLanetary Council Base with the Colonel in it? would be interesting to have both the pirates and spartans flagships facing each other... maybe the Pks too if Lal decides to show up :P

Doesn't stop the Pirates from harrassing the spartans....Pirates have the reputation to harrass various naval ships belonging to the Morganites, Hive, Spartans, sometimes the believers in nessus sea or near the pirate home bases, sometimes University, other suspicious ships..... Its not encouraged by the Government, but it ain't discouraged either the fleet admirals discretion, sometime the captains

also, would like to get the elections done and over with too. :P
can't hold all of my ideas for what the pirates would be doing too long....which i want to do AFTER the elections...

-LMP

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by [LordLMP]
also, would like to get the elections done and over with too. :P
can't hold all of my ideas for what the pirates would be doing too long....which i want to do AFTER the elections...

-LMP

thats just what the people in Sparta are thinking.

[Guardian]

Well, the U.N.S. Peacekeeper (wow, don't we all have extremely original names for our flagships... ) is ready and waiting in the harbor at U.N. Headquarters... The crew is getting impatient, as they've been sitting there for almost a week waiting for Lal to get himself sorted out and done with all these meetings and stuff....
Right now some of them kind of envy the Pirates ever so slightly...
Never any bureaucratic diddling around with the Pirates - they just go right ahead and get stuff done, and then the critics can ask questions later if they absolutely have to...

Anyway, expect the Peacekeeper to be underway shortly...

-Just as soon as we've held another press conference or two...

[Natan]

I'd like to get the show on the road too, but only after I finish negotiating with Morgan. Mr. President, why don't you respond to my offer?

[Argonaut]

Hey
I'm back (he said, stating the obvious) and have a better connection than ever, so I'm ready to get back in the game.

I also say lets get this election over and done with. The D.A.S. Independence will be arriving shortly.

[Sprayber]

Im getting around to post Santiago's trip to Planatery council..


LMP, Darkcloud- Put some of my admin up tonight.

My concerns. Techs

I have Spartans having techs through level 4. Some level 5. My question is on MMI a level 6 tech. Wasn't for sure on that one. I saw the Drones with it but not anyone else.

Question Could it be possible for a faction to be researching two techs at once? Or do we stick to the game on this one. Maybe if a faction concentrates on one tech they can get it faster. It just seems unrealistic that they can only research one tech at a time.

I have Spartans with Chaos weapons but far from fully arming themselves with it at this time. Lots of missile units around.

Spartan Navy- I envisioned it just a bit smaller than the PK navy. But with far more missile cruisers than choas ones.

Anyway suggestions are welcome. I may add some to the Army. It is still Sparta's bread and butter.

I do really have to rethink the Pirates units thing.... thats like 400+ units in total in my count........

I say we make Foils half a unit...smaller then a cruiser after all and doubt they need as much maintenance as a full rover regiment. to cheaper in maintenance and cost to build.

Anyway, don't want this game stuck in details like population, resources, etc.... but rather keep it in stats like the Top 5 or 10 in a peticular field like Economy, Industry, Population, Number of Bases, etc...

will post it at the History/Summary.......or even the Admin for that matter. You people can post your opinion of it afterwards and will change when required.

As for techs....Can have the Drones acquiring MMI from the Data Angels i guess, which is most likely. A lot of the advance techs the Drone have was given to them and traded. Same with the Cult and Believers... they could have also stolen it too or acquired in a way like the Cult did with Synthetic Fossil Fuel.

It possible to research two or more techs at the same time, but one can be fully concentrated on and one completed at a time. So while focusing on one tech, they may get into minor research on other fields. Like take the Pirates for example :P They Completed Superstring Theory, but still needed to make a prototype before fully applying in the field (common sence...making the Pirates the first to have acquired Chaos weaponry). While they were researching that tech, they made some theorization/some minor research on neural grafting and MMI after that by studying the Cyborgs...they also got permission to send a research team to check the Cyborgs out in person with their early Neural Grafting/MMI abilities. So by the tie they get to focus their research on Neural Grafting, there is already a percentage of research done already on it.
We would also have to keep mind of a factions characteristics too... lets take the Cyborgs...since their society uses Neural grafting, Pre-Sentient Algorithm and Mind/Machine Interface...when they start to fully research those techs, they research that tech a lot quicker as they already have experience in those fields...after techs are complete, they understand those field lot more and able to make improvements(finally).
For the Drones, researching Industrial related techs will be easy for them to do...as naval related techs with Pirates...Green/Psi/Mindworm related techs with the Cult and Gaians... Economy related techs with the Morganites... etc

Understand? makes it harder to use a formulas like Darkcloud make isn't it? Keep it SMAC like, but with realistic common sence

-LMP

[Sprayber]

Yeah I get it.

Important techs all factions should have by now:

Former, Probe Team, Foil and Rover techs

basic Industrial, Economy, Environmental, Research, etc... techs

High Chemistry (Plasma Steel, Nerve Gas)
Advanced Military Algorithm
Doctrine: Air Power
Synthetic Fossil Fuel

then, the important techs the factions should have by now(you people can decide, just stating my opinion):

Doctrine: Initiative (Pirate, PK, Data Angel, Cyborg, Morganite, SPartan, Drone, University)

Mind/Machine Interface (Cyborg, Data Angel, Pirate, PK, Spartan, Hive, University, Drone, Morganite)

Superstring Theory (Pirate, Cyborg, University, Data Angel, Spartan, PK, maybe Morganites too)

Orbital Space Flight (Cyborg, maybe University...neither ready to shoot a satellite thought, but cyborgs hoot more so)

Fusion Power (Cyborg and University are close to getting it)

Planetary Economics (All who participated at the Global Trade Summit, but all should have it by now anyway )

Environmental Economics (I would think the Gaians and some of the Chiron Alliance/Data Angel have it...along with the Morganites who are offering to anyone attending their Industrial Summit... they like to bribe a lot do they? )

Silksteel (all but Believers, Cult and maybe Drones, Hive and Spartans)

Level 5, maybe Level 6, Green techs the Gaians and Cult have for sure....especially if the Cult is to be breeding Locusts and Sea Lurkers

did i miss anything else?

[Sprayber]

Biggest Populations

1. Hive
2. Believers
3. Peacekeepers
4. Pirates/Free Drones
5.University
6. Morganites/Data Angels/Cyborgs
7. Gaians
8. Cult

The Cult has a bigger population than Sparta? I know the Spartans aren't that high in population, but they have to be higher than the cult...And Cyborgs reproduce faster than Spartans. I know Spartans can be a little distant at times, but do we reproduce slower than half machines. I would think Sparta has a population somewhere between the University and the Pirates/Free Drones.

[Guardian]

I see the Peacekeepers appear to be doing pretty well in the overall picture.

No complaints, Sire.

[Natan]

Okay, I'm going to have to do some major revisions in my admin post, because I'm supposed to have the largest ground force and I'm not even close. Also, is it okay if Yang arrives by jet from the peninsula? I think he's close enough, and it will be faster and will avoid Pirate interference.

ooops...no no, spartan has bigger pop then cult, i just forgot to put the spartans Some of those i redone 10 times until it felt right...during that process, i miss the Spartans

-LMP

Originally posted by Sprayber
Biggest Populations

1. Hive
2. Believers
3. Peacekeepers
4. Pirates/Free Drones
5.University
6. Morganites/Data Angels/Cyborgs
7. Gaians
8. Cult

The Cult has a bigger population than Sparta? I know the Spartans aren't that high in population, but they have to be higher than the cult...And Cyborgs reproduce faster than Spartans. I know Spartans can be a little distant at times, but do we reproduce slower than half machines. I would think Sparta has a population somewhere between the University and the Pirates/Free Drones.

Hive has the Largest ground force, but not the strongest...s they have a large army of cheap conscript units you can say. Way i see it anyway. Everytime i play against the Hive in the game, they usually concentrate in building a huge army of cheap ground infantry and rush everybody... hate being neighbours with them in the game
They also expand lot quicker to... so they have a lot of bases, population stretch out (capital and monsoon jungle bases pretty pact with pop thought i would think)... which makes their infrastructure suffer.

Yes, can use a jet same with the Believers, if they even use them.

-LMP

[Natan]

Originally posted by [LordLMP]
Hive has the Largest ground force, but not the strongest...s they have a large army of cheap conscript units you can say. Way i see it anyway. Everytime i play against the Hive in the game, they usually concentrate in building a huge army of cheap ground infantry and rush everybody... hate being neighbours with them in the game
They also expand lot quicker to... so they have a lot of bases, population stretch out (capital and monsoon jungle bases pretty pact with pop thought i would think)... which makes their infrastructure suffer.

Yes, can use a jet same with the Believers, if they even use them.

-LMP

Yeah, that's about right, although in my experience, the Hive doesn't underdevelop their territory, quite the opposite, they usually max out with improvements on every square. It also helps that they live underground in cramped spaces, so they have more room on top for farms and mines and whatnot. That's probably why they have such good economy and growth.

I saw the listing you had there in the admin thread. I think the Believers should have a higher probe rating, and the PKs shouldn't even rate in the top five because they have a Democracy which makes it hard to stop infiltrators. It was also strange that the PKs had such high ratings in all the military sections, does this mean that their industry is low from supporting all that? Also, I've written my admin post based on the Hive having Bioengineerng and clean reactors, was that wrong?

[Guardian]

Well, what can I say... the Peacekeepers have learned a thing or two from having Sparta and the Hive as their nearest neighbours...

-Both of whom could come knocking on our doors within a week or so if they decide to, and we're not about to forget that just because it hasn't happened in a few years now...

Besides, we're also trying to be Peacekeepers elsewhere, and... well, it seems we can't do that without a credible military force to back our words. So... yes, military spendings are a lot higher than we would have liked, and yes, our economy and industry is somewhat affected by this. But that doesn't mean we don't have a good industry or a good economy - just that we spend a good chunk of it on the military. (So, in terms resources readily available for any given purpose other than supporting the military, yes, we would be somewhat lower than the factional statistics seem to indicate...)

Clean reactors require fusion power, so maybe a little early for that. Also, in reality, a clean reactor wouldn't completely wipe out the need for supplies and support organizations and stuff like it seems to do in the computer game, so perhaps we ought to discuss how to handle this once we do get there.

[Natan]

Well, in the real world, spending above a certain percentage of the GDP on the military causes serious and lasting damage to the rest of the economy, but the percentage is rather high, something like 15-25% - just something to keep in mind.

Okay, I'm going to back and change my admin stuff later.

[DarkCloud]

Sounds good... But shouldn't the cult have a higher population... I know they don't want to spread out too much... but they have to have something other than mindworms going for them.

What i mean by Infrastructure is the bases...like how many facilities built, etc.... I was about to do stats on terraforming, but not how to base that really...all the factions constantly use formers to terraform....one faction, a lot of mines...another a lot of farms...another plant fungus all over the place and another plant trees all over the place. I can see the Hive plant a lot of things...and i could see them take extreme advantage of the Monsoon Jungle for Nutrients. Don't want to think that all of the population is in the base...they need to be out on the field working among the terrain too...but majority probebly go back to base for sleep/eat/etc...or at some housing they may construct among the terrain...which is logical if the squares are to be 500km X 500km.

Industry isn't affected...unless most of the workers are off to war...but that shouldn't be a big problem by 2200, especially with the Hive and all factions who have Industrial Automation. Its mainly how much Resources (Energy/Minerals/Nutrients) are spent maintaining a military. The Pirates and Peacekeepers would be really needing in a lot of resources, which they both get among the sea anyway. The Peacekeepers have the great dunes to set up solar arrays/echelon mirrors, some mines and farms... pretty easy to irrigate the desert on Chiron just needs water.
Factions would use Convoys a lot to go fetch resources outside a bases radius, which i know the Pirates do a lot. Maybe have stats of biggest mineral and nutrient producers too.

Economy is bit different compare to earth right now. SMAC Economies are base on Energy, which is their Gold. Even if the Hive are not into economical stuff like the morganites, they still need energy to power their bases, facilities, etc... Also use energy to rush build somethings, by turning energy into minerals... If a faction have surplus resources they are not using, that the base is currently not building anything big, they turn minerals into energy...which is hoot easier to do then turning energy into minerals. So Economy, Industry, and Efficiency effects each other... Industry would get effected base on population levels, but not big deal if the faction has Industrial Automation. Support is effected by resources that is produced, which the Industry converts into usefull things...so Support doesn't effect Industry. I can see Efficiency effecting Support somewhat...Higher Efficiency, less resources are wasted and use of resources are improved. Infantry units wouldn't take up as much resources as Rovers, Needjets and Naval Units. Non-Combat units wouldn't take up as much resources as Military too.

Yes, the Believers would technicly have better Probe Teams...maybe should rename the stat to Intelligence and then have a seperate stat for the effectiveness/morale of Probe Teams. Like, the Believers don't do a lot of interfactional espionage compare to the Peacekeepers.... Peacekeepers would technicly be better at Counter-Intelligence then normal Intelligence.

The Cult lacks Industrial wise. They are also into playing around with mindworms, planting fungus around them, etc... Then add that with them not caring as much about human lives to other factions due to their beliefs, society, etc... So they do have a high death rate, not counting the war. The War would be effecting the Cult population pretty much... more so on Cult Populations levels then the Believers. So makes sence of them having smallest Population on Chiron.

In Chiron Chronicles, one Society may effect another somewhat... like Firaxis will try to do with their Cultural thing in Civ3.
If you have Peacekeepers for neighbours, your society would get effected somewhat in a natural way by their Democratic beliefs....etc... Also, also depends on the neighbourhood you are located at too... Central Continent is technicly very Political and Economical. Eastern Continent is quite Militaristic. The Western Continent is quite Mystical, spiritual/religious, greeny, etc...
So that would explain why the majority of PKs on the Continent are more into Pro-War views and into ground things, while the PKs on the Island and seabases are more into Pro-Peace views and into water things. Influence is the word, directly or not, intentionally or not. various influences may cause an interesting neighbourhood.

-LMP

[Guardian]

Originally posted by Natan
Well, in the real world, spending above a certain percentage of the GDP on the military causes serious and lasting damage to the rest of the economy, but the percentage is rather high, something like 15-25% - just something to keep in mind.

Yes, because every dollar you put into the military is a dollar you may not invest in anything else. So, you will have no profit or long term payoff from it, it sort of just "disappears" in a big black hole... A strong economy can handle some of this, but - as you say - up to a certain point...

[Guardian]

Umm... looks like I've got myself a pretty busy day here...
I've got a pretty decent-sized post coming up, but may not be ready until tomorrow.

I'll try to make it worth waiting for...

[Natan]

[LordLMP], could I have a base on the Cape called Plex Anthill? I'm not sure of the coordinates, but I'd like it on the fungus square which is one square northwest of the elevated rolling arid square at the center of tip of the Cape.

Yep Yep I already place a base there...the base originally planned for Kane to run too....at the center thought, but can remove it and place Plex Anthill

Still want bases way north...west of Eryption bay?

I have a question...is the choppers Gun Choppers? Has they seem to use Minigun and rockets...don't mind the combination of weapons of units, aslong that the Chaos Infantry MAIN gun is the Chaos gun, where the Msl Rovers MAIN weapon is the MSLs...but can have secondaries.....is the Minigun Impact base? (especially if it is able to shoot incendinary ammo)

would bit silly to have SMAC units use Earth like weaponry when they have Lasers and Chaos weaponry to play with

-LMP

[Sprayber]

LMP. Task Force 2 has been enroute for quit some time. way back before the Spartans first notified the believers that they were giving them two transports. i could have sworn i wrote something about it. they had to have some kind of escort. As for Task force 1 carrying santiago. i did rush a bit cause the elections are taking too long.

from the 15-29 of september, I'll be gone on my anual training with the National Guard. I won't have access to a computer. Well not for posting on the internet anyway. Elections should be done by then i hope...

[Guardian]

Sorry guys! I've got yet another busy day on my hands and I'm running dangerously low on creative energy - or in fact any form of energy - so... well, it looks like I won't be posting anything big today either... Perhaps some time this weekend I'll get my act together...

I suppose some humble apologies are in order for dragging things out when everyone just wants to get on with it, but... well, that's life, I guess... some times you just get a little swamped and you have to be strict with your priorities for a few days... Like I said yesterday, once I do get around to posting again, I'll try to make it worth the wait.

I thought I'd write a brief summary OOC on what the Peacekeepers are currently doing in case some of you want to move on a bit without me...

Well, Lal will hold his press conference and then get on his ship for Planetary Council Base. There will be some fuzz in the media about this and a few other things... In Data DeCentral, the embassy guards are pretty pissed off about being harassed and "bombarded" by protestors, but they're not doing anything out of hand... On the western continent, there are a number of PK air patrols out in the border region and some going out to sea hauling some nasty looking missiles... They just might discover a Spartan task force and - if they do - they just might enter Believer airspace to inspect it since it slipped past both Pirates and U.N. Navy... Also, the Peacekeepers won't be too impressed with the Hive when they pick up those helicopters... that is, of course, if they are identified - which they will be unless something keeps the PK jets from closing for a visual inspection. Again, they just might ignore a border or two if it's only for a couple of minutes, but they won't deliberately pursue anyone across the Believer border once they have a visual ID. (The Spartans/Believers/Hive are going to be SO pissed with us for violating their precious factional sovereignty... )

Also, I have a little surprise in store...

[DarkCloud]

Good plot Guardian.

Okay. Have a good time in the National Guard Sprayber.
We will miss you.

I suppose I had best set a deadline for the Planetary Governor Vote... Preferably before Sprayber leaves: Election begins AT LEAST BY Sept 5 and ends by the 10th...

Is that all right with everyone?

[Kassiopeia]

I'm OK, Miriam has lots of votes just begging to be cast... the 5th it is, then?

I can understand the use of synthetic fossil fuel for civilian use...but military?

The factions had to live without gas until the point they acquired synthetic fossil fuel.... which their military would be fission reactor base...which produces hoot more power then combustion.

So why would the morganites downgrade their military to combustion? :P unless for small vehicule uses maybe.... more economical maybe...but at the price of loosing military capability compare to fission reactors?

700 miles? only has a range of two squares? combustion base helicopter?


here is the specs for Nautilus Pirate Patrol Gunship

Crew: 2 (pilot/copilot)
Passenger: Capable of carrying a Infantry Squad

Engine: Nautilus Fission Reactor
Range: 3000 to 4000 Kilometres (6 to 8 squares)

Primary Weapon: Nautilus Missile Array (anti-rover, air-to-ground, anti-ship, etc)
Secondary Weaponry: 2 medium Gatling lasers
Special Equipment: Deep Radar

Roles: Air Patrol, Air-to-Ship combat, Air-to-Ground combat, Search and Rescue, Reconnaissance, etc...

-LMP

I suggest you people read the conceptsx.txt in the smax directory.... may be base on stuff in the game, but can be use to describe the rules in Chiron Chronicles a bit

-LMP