The Chiron Chronicle: Discussions (Restart 3) - Page 2

Kassiopeia · July 15, 2001, 17:39

I have SMAX

Why did the B's and the PC start the war in the first place? Territorial dispute, fundamentalist issues, someone influenced antoher/both? Lack of sheer action

The Believing fanaticism is their best military asset. That negates any moral problems (not experience problems). So the PC soldiers won't see much Believing neck that hasn't been pierced with gatling laser fire

This war is, with direct contact being rare, a spiritual war. The PC's cannot use probe teams against B:s, right? And the Spartan pact would be useful, at least to gain up-to-date tech. Of course, that would put pressure on the Spartans = to the PK's. That would in the future mean that the Chiron Alliance could possibly, if PC pressures them enough (Appeal to Deirdre, similar ideals - Zakharov, mortal enemy of Believers), attack the Believers, which wouldn't be so good for Miriam. Thinking it that deep, I see a slight risk in allying with the Spartans.

Natan · July 15, 2001, 18:36

Also, Yang is a dirty demon, and therefore would probably play tricks like offering assistance to the Believers if they used their superior probe teams to steal technology and give it to him. That way, he doesn't get blamed for stealing it.

Kassiopeia · July 15, 2001, 18:41

Is Hive a part of the Chiron Alliance? If not, then that sounds like a plan. Put if not, then if revealed, the Believers might get their a** kicked byt the Alliance.
What is the level of integrity amongst the alliance members?
And actually the assistance of Hive would be big, but why wouldn't the Hive just declare war on them and rip the techs himself?

Sprayber · July 15, 2001, 19:26

Spartans really don't care for the Belivers. It's that they hate the cult of planet. It wouldn't necessarly be a pact, just a loose partnership for the purpose of destroying the COP. Sparta and the Hive have a similar thing going against the Alliance. Both of them see the Alliance as the threat and have put aside past differences. As for what the Hive does, that is up to the Hive. I would think the alliance would be upset with the Spartans for giving techs to the Believers but I wouldn't think they would actually intervene unless the Believers attack the Gians. The Spartans warned the Believers to focus on the COP and not the Gians when it started. This was done to prevent the alliance from interfering. They aren't allied with the COP, and I don't think they would becuase of their type of government. Not even the the Gians would go that far. I don't think.

Sparta won't send troops to your continent.

July 16, 2001, 00:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Sprayber
LMP-Before we decided to advance the game, the Spartans were about to give the Believers Missle technology to fight the cult. Spartans also provided intelligence files on the then updated cult military. Spartans never agreed to any peace with the cult and it's probably safe to believe that the Spartans wants the Believers to destroy the cult of planet. There were no intentions to send troops, but would have provided whatever techs necessary to defeat cult of planet. Spartans also view the Believers as a potential ally in that region. This of course depends on how much the believers are interested in such a partnership. This would be less than a Pact of course.

Yes, but doubt the believers got the tech in time to start upgrading their crusade army before sending it in their first push, else the attack would be delayed even longer, giving the Cult more time to prepare.... They could also acquire Air Power and started building an air force during the war. Cult would get Air Power aswell, but would end up with a smaller Air Force due to crappier industry.... Also, Spartans only have data on the cult at the defence lines during the second spartan war and no infiltration into cult, so will not provide any info that would make a big difference.
Anyway, all the details of the war will be up to kass and cyber.

Was also thinking to have that Nessus Sea incident between the believers and pirates....friction happening there.

July 16, 2001, 00:44

Chiron Alliance is strickly a Economical and Military Alliance, so it ain't exactly NATO like. The only they seriously share at the moment is the naval ship registry. Faction will only help another if they are in trouble military wise.

Anyway, details of its creation and relations i will do in a moment, along with the general timeline. relations could be change to fit for the reset.

and i will send map to Kass after that......who else wants it? Temple of War may change its name, if Sprayber wants.

Cult is a Police State according to blake, but they seem more Fundamentalist, buit different beliefs compare to the belivers.

Believers don't like the Cult because they consider them as evil, say cult worship the devil, corrupts(converts) some Believers, and so on. Believers tried eradicating them since the early years. First Crusade done some damage to the Cult, but were still defeated due to mindworms and to much fungus to fight in.
Second Crusade got defeated and agreed to a uneasy treaty... third crusade, current war, believers got annoyed that the Cult expanded, and their military getting bigger too, and closer to believer territory. So enough excuse to declare war on the Cult. Believers don't share any borders with the Gaians, so never had any positive or negaive relations with them, and barely had any contact. Believers would be Probe immuned...well, mostly... in CC, it is still possible, but very very hard.

Sprayber · July 16, 2001, 11:02

Quote:

Originally posted by [LordLMP]
and i will send map to Kass after that......who else wants it? Temple of War may change its name, if Sprayber wants.

That would be good. How about Bunker 118?

And Fleet Anchorage as the Spartan sea base. I would also like a map if you don't mind. I have one but would like the updated version.

Kassiopeia · July 16, 2001, 17:37

Hmmm... If Hive nor the Spartans belong to the Alliance, and since it isn't as strict as NATO...
Then pacting with them would be recommendable. We are to get started soon, right?
I'll be much wiser after a glance at the map.

Argonaut · July 16, 2001, 20:52

I wouldn't mind a copy of the map if you could Lord LMP. I've only got my personal map of the Chiron Continent.

Sprayber · July 18, 2001, 21:10

When are we going to start this? I know Guardian is still MIA but I'm sure he will show up pretty soon. Oh well, I'll be waiting. Maybe I should use this time to start my story. HMMMM. I'm enjoying your story Kas. Keep up the good work

About the Spartans and Hive. Yeah, neither is in the alliance. Both have a "strategic partnership" In which Spartan advisors trained the Hive in the arts of war and the Hive trained Sparta to be more efficient in their industry. We were once in the Apex Alliance together just before the war started. I don't know if the Hive would be interested in a pact, but I'm sure Yang would enjoy maybe ticking off the Alliance by giving various things to the Believers. Of course I would think that Miriam and Yang would never get too cozy. Perhaps with the Spartans as mediators, some kind of arragement could be made.

Kassiopeia · July 19, 2001, 16:27

Yeah, when are we gonna start this. I need the map though.
Thanks for the comments Sprayber. Excluding my own views, it has been viewed 37 times

Of course, when I update it at present, it drags up the numbers, but at least ten people have at least read some of it

Sprayber · July 19, 2001, 17:17

LMP--Who all was involved in the war on Denaria? Maybe we chould have it to where the cult of war partisipated somehow without official Spartan approval and was punished for it. Hence the name change of Temple of war to Bunker 118. I have other ideas. Dicuss...

Argonaut · July 19, 2001, 22:43

Re: War on Denairia

How about the Angels and Pirates not necessarily fighting on the same side? I thought it could be cool if it was a sort of covert war, where no faction government wanted to say anything about the fighting, lest others find out about the alien centre. So, there would be small commando groups "operating without the knowledge or consent of this faction's government" idea. Sort of a no-holds bar, grab what you can and screw everyone else kind of idea. The Chiron Alliance would still be intact, because officially there was no war. But Roze would know, and Svensgaard would know to create some tension there. At the same time they know that the Chiron Alliance comes with a lot of privelages right now, so neither one wants to mess it up.

Just my rantings to contribute to the discussion. Hope some of it made sense, and I realize this only applies to two of the multiple factions involved.

OOh, what if the Angel teamed cooperated with the neighbouring Free Drone team, instead of the Pirates? That would piss off Svensgaard as he's been buttering up Domai for a long time.

Okay, rant over. Gonna go to bed now.

July 20, 2001, 11:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Sprayber
LMP--Who all was involved in the war on Denaria? Maybe we chould have it to where the cult of war partisipated somehow without official Spartan approval and was punished for it. Hence the name change of Temple of war to Bunker 118. I have other ideas. Dicuss...

Sure, if you choose that they ever existed to be eliminated

-LordLMP

July 20, 2001, 11:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Argonaut
Re: War on Denairia

How about the Angels and Pirates not necessarily fighting on the same side? I thought it could be cool if it was a sort of covert war, where no faction government wanted to say anything about the fighting, lest others find out about the alien centre. So, there would be small commando groups "operating without the knowledge or consent of this faction's government" idea. Sort of a no-holds bar, grab what you can and screw everyone else kind of idea. The Chiron Alliance would still be intact, because officially there was no war. But Roze would know, and Svensgaard would know to create some tension there. At the same time they know that the Chiron Alliance comes with a lot of privelages right now, so neither one wants to mess it up.

Just my rantings to contribute to the discussion. Hope some of it made sense, and I realize this only applies to two of the multiple factions involved.

OOh, what if the Angel teamed cooperated with the neighbouring Free Drone team, instead of the Pirates? That would piss off Svensgaard as he's been buttering up Domai for a long time.

Okay, rant over. Gonna go to bed now.

The whole war was mystery and so many conspiracies about it

Officially, there wasn't a war, but there was.... probebly Svensgaard and Roze way of flirting with each other, in some odd way

can have this impression of a love triangle

When the morgan exploration team sent that message, they forgot to send the coordinates. so there is only an idea as to where it is....
so the pirates and data angels could cooperate for bit, and cooperate in other certain points....like fighting morgan, spartan...once they are out of the way for the moment, against each other :P but complete cooperated at first, until something happened to start fighting against each other and then going with free drones, pirates gets annoyed. like pirates and free drones, best friends, fighting over the girl, Data Angels.

while at the sametime fighting over the alien center and other goodies on the island. could have the Alien Center being discovered multiple of times, just that, one faction can't hold it long enough from another. so many people mysteriously dissapeared on that island :P the whole island could be a phenomenon

cloning rifts, vortex rifts that chucks you to another location so on. So for the factions to keep the thing quiet, without attracting attention from rest of the factions that are a bit too far or whatever to get to the island. so small scale warfare....platoon size units, probe teams, etc.... lots of commando and guerilla stuff.

-LordlMP

Guardian · July 20, 2001, 17:03

Hey there!

Well, gee! It seems a lot of stuff happened in my absence...
Yes, I am still alive and yes, I'm still a Peacekeeper!

No, I haven't died or lost interest or anything like that... Just still on holiday and haven't been on line very much at all for some time...

I don't have any objections to the restart, but I'll have to get back to the historical details at a later stage. I'll return to Norway next weekend, as I need to be back at work Monday the 30th. (I'm in America at the moment...) My wife (who actually grew up here) will be staying in the States for another couple of weeks after that, so I'll be home alone for a while with plenty of time to play around with stuff like this...

In other words: you'll be likely to start seeing more of me again in another week or so...

As for the Peacekeepers, I know I'll have to rewrite their history a little when I get back, but I am assuming that at least SOME atrocities still happened in the Spartan wars... Also, I imagine the Peacekeepers will be getting more "aggressive" about snooping around in other factions' business... you know, it's NOT your own business if you violate the U.N. Charter, and... well, if "souvereignity" is used as some kind of an "excuse" for committing atrocities, then we do not recognize your souvereignity at all!

Because of this, and because we still share borders with both Sparta and the Hive, I'd say the Peacekeepers will be strong militarily. I'm NOT saying that they're going to go around targeting missiles at anyone who even looks at them funny or bends a few rules every once in a while, but they'll have the means to get tough if they really think it's necessary and they WILL have the means to defend themselves against certain neighbours they do not trust worth a dang...

Also, I don't see them sitting on their butts watching the Cult / Believer war for all these years without trying to do something about it...

Kassiopeia · July 20, 2001, 17:21

Quote:

[SIZE=1]
Also, I don't see them sitting on their butts watching the Cult / Believer war for all these years without trying to do something about it...

They *are* Peacekeepers...
Oh, and I don't think Miriam is gonna like Pk's interfering, so I guess this war will escalate in it's time.

Guardian · July 21, 2001, 17:55

That will be the exact opposite of what the Peacekeepers are trying to do, but they're definitely not going to stand down and let a fanatic like Miriam have her way... they will try to reason with her first, but they will fight her if they must...

Guardian · July 21, 2001, 18:05

Oh, and by the way... can we say that U.N. Sea Quest was indeed nuked, but that it would be rebuilt by now?

I'd say it probably happened without approval from Sparta Command...
That is... Demeneras and his minions were on their own...
Kessel probably did some serious housecleaning afterwards...

Argonaut · July 21, 2001, 21:15

What sort of tech level increase are we looking at? Are we going to give a basic number (perhaps adjusted so that people like the Uni and Cyborgs who have better research get extra and fanatic Believer's get a little less?)

Oh, and what's the decision on the Cult of War? Are they being nixed from the record? Or do I get to explain how they were put down

in Data Angel territory for stirring up trouble?

Natan · July 21, 2001, 23:08

Fortunately for the Hive, Yang has made military strength a real priority, with the goal being a military able to defend against the PKs and the Drones while guarding the coast from pirate invasion, and still be able to mount an offensive on one front. Of course, to do this Yang would have to concentrate technological research on getting the cloning vats (to make power values a viable option) which would mean neglecting space flight and such, but c'est la vie. The Hive is supposed to be weak in tech anyway.

Sprayber · July 21, 2001, 23:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Argonaut
What sort of tech level increase are we looking at? Are we going to give a basic number (perhaps adjusted so that people like the Uni and Cyborgs who have better research get extra and fanatic Believer's get a little less?)

Oh, and what's the decision on the Cult of War? Are they being nixed from the record? Or do I get to explain how they were put down

in Data Angel territory for stirring up trouble?

As far as I'm concerned Arognaut, you can go ahead and do that. I think that we should not extinguish the existence of the Cult Of War, just write that they were done away with. For the most part anyway. There may still be a few somewhere

. Don't anyone worry though they won't cause trouble. Anyway go right ahead. You might even mention some anoumous help from sources in Sparta. Unconformed sources that is. Kessel never really did like the cult and would have gotten rid of them before Santiago came back. It might make for some interesting dynamics if someone in Sparta had helped, if only with information, in the elimination of the cult in Angel territory.

Cyber · July 22, 2001, 06:36

Here again.
LordLMP, I'm fine with the description of CoP doings and current military situation you gave. I was thinking about finding the old Admin stuff about CoP by Blake and modify and use it.
About the mixed human/mindworm, I think the idea is great!
How much of the CoP territory is covered by fungus, and how much can the CoP use the fungus for eg. nutrient production with their current knowledge and tech status?

The CoP should start to find allies among the other factions, though it has an unofficial friend in terms of trade and coop - Morgan, as LordLMP stated. The University could be a valuable ally also.

Guardian- is the peacekeeping frenzy of PKs directed towards the Believers or the CoP? you must remember that the CoP helped the Peacekeepers in the second Spartan War and are a target of agression in this war.

Kassiopeia- From finland, huh? Hyva nahda suomalaisiakin taalla.

Argo- I like your idea about the Denaira(or whatever) island situation and how it should be treated.

I have to apologise to you all, for I wont be able to write decent posts for for a while still...

DarkCloud · July 22, 2001, 14:12

Guardian- Your plan for the Peackeepers sounds good. The Peacekeepers would benefit from doing more 'peacekeeping'

If the PK's are 'peacekeeping' in territories controled by enemies of Zakharov, he will support them and encourage them... It will give him more power- the PK's will be slightly weakened by patrolling Chiron, and Zakharov won't have to worry about enemies declaring war on him.

Tech level increases... How about
60% research= 6*20 years= 120 divided by 4= 30 tech points
etc.

Or we could
60% research= 4*20 years= 80 divided by 2= 40 tech points

If we do-
Adjustments, they would be 10%+ Data Angels, Cyborgs, University

(I do not think that we really need to do adjustments... please say what you think about this.)

10- Cult of Planet, Believers

Clear Skies · July 22, 2001, 15:22

If we don't get adjustments, what's the point in factions running Knowledge? Or even in taking on a tech-bonused faction to start with?
My vote goes for adjustments. Cyborgs get +20% research at the start, and since they are now running Knowledge it's +40% net.
Gaians are also running Knowledge, so +20% for them.

Guardian · July 22, 2001, 16:39

Quote:

Guardian- is the peacekeeping frenzy of PKs directed towards the Believers or the CoP? you must remember that the CoP helped the Peacekeepers in the second Spartan War and are a target of agression in this war.

Umm.. the Peacekeepers don't work that way.
That is... it is not a "frenzy" that is "directed against" one side or the other. -At least not initially, but i suppose things could happen along the way if one side or the other clearly stands out as the "bad guys"...

Yes, I do remember that the Cult of Planet helped the Peacekeepers in the second Spartan War, but it was part of the deal all along that this "alliance" existed only for the duration of that conflict.

The Peacekeepers are going to be extremely careful about "taking sides" in a conflict between two different groups of religious fanatics. We don't really support either of you. We just think you should leave each other (and everyone else) alone!

Argonaut · July 22, 2001, 19:42

I agree with Smac Fanatic that research oriented factions and those running knowledge should get an advantage. So how about a bonus for University, Cyborgs and Gaians, and then leave it at that (unless someone else is running knowledge)? That seems fair to me.

Now, I'm not too sure about your two equations there (sorry, I'm a typical arts student

). I'll go with either, just let me know whether it's 40 or 30. I'll update my admin for 30 now, and I can add later if necessary.

Guardian · July 22, 2001, 22:55

Hey, I got a different idea about U.N. Sea Quest...

How about this...

There WAS an incident at U.N. Sea Quest, but it wasn't a nuking and the base was never completely destroyed.

Some rogue Spartan probe operatives shipped in a boatload of explosives and blew the stuff sky high when they realized that they couldn't escape. The explosion caused extensive damage and loss of life, but not as bad as the nuke would have been.

I kind of like it, as I've come to see the Sea Quest incident as an "interesting" story element. This way we can keep the incident in a somewhat more "reasonable" form. So, how about it?

?

July 22, 2001, 23:11

Cult of Planet is in a way a religious faction, else they wouldn't be called a Cult :P And according to Blake, Cult is pretty advance in green explorer techs, so the Cult would be able to attract nutrients and energy, and some minerals. But the minerals yield wouldn't be as good as getting them from multiple of mines, which could be the reason why the Cult's Industry ain't the best due to lack of mineral resources. they would of course get decent amount of Energy, especially solar collectors on top and along the Pholus Ridge, which may also have a lot of untap minerals resources which cannot be accessed due to fungus. Can say by 2200, 2/3 of Cult territory is covered with Fungus

So if cult is religious like, University wouldn't like that...but in other hand, University have some interest in the Cult's advance green techs.

As for the SeaQuest nuke...to keep it SMAC like, no nukes before acquiring the Planetbuster tech. and does give the SPartans to big of a black mark in that area... but could say that it was just a powerful self-destruct, which badly damaged the the seabase, making whatever is keeping it floating unstable... so they had to evacuate whatever left f the population..and when resources permit, then fix the base which luckily still mostly floating and then repopulate it. So can say it was a powerful act of sabotage instead of all out scorched earth destruction.

As for the Cult of War in my opinion shouldn't exist....but may still exist, but ain't as big as cyber made it to be...cult made out of about 500 to 1000 of crazy people :P so limiting them more into a Probe lik group then being big enough to have Cult of War units and not as influencial in the Spartan Faction and not big enough, or strong enough, to go infiltrare other factions and try to "convert" peace/freedom loving people.

Same with th Perfect Society, where it is only a small organization limited to probe like stuff and not to much influence in both Morgan and University. they may end up fade from history. the organization may be disguise as some Stock Firms and some companies operating in University.

I see the Cyborgs or University to have shot the first Satellite. then data angels, pks etc....

So the most advance factions would have Space Flight, while some still researching it. all the factions would have Missile Weaponry and some starting to build Chaos units....Cyborgs and University close to Fusion Power and Fusion Lasers..

I am not interested in depending on mathematical equations to get tech as it is unrealistic and can't keep up with the story, so no point. So we would have to use our judgement and common reason to decide who gets what.

-LordLMp

July 22, 2001, 23:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Guardian
Hey, I got a different idea about U.N. Sea Quest...

How about this...

There WAS an incident at U.N. Sea Quest, but it wasn't a nuking and the base was never completely destroyed.

Some rogue Spartan probe operatives shipped in a boatload of explosives and blew the stuff sky high when they realized that they couldn't escape. The explosion caused extensive damage and loss of life, but not as bad as the nuke would have been.

I kind of like it, as I've come to see the Sea Quest incident as an "interesting" story element. This way we can keep the incident in a somewhat more "reasonable" form. So, how about it?

?

Haha, thats what i just suggested

so you must of wrote that and sent while i was writing mines. I am good with it and also won't a big arse black mark to the Spartans. They Warriors, not murderers.

-LordLMp