Logs in OCC

[tonic]

Smash raised the issue of the format of logs in the OCC17 thread. However I think this is worth addressing as a topic in its own right. So here is a gathering of some of the thoughts that have gone on before as a basis for discussion.

The aims of logs in decreasing order of importance are:

1. To describe the game progress
This is the what, when and how of the progress of a unique individual game

2. As an illustration to novices on the application of the principles of OCC in practice.

Obviously opinions on what are essential in a log would depend on how important one considers aim 2.

Here’s a tentative listing based what has been done, in a loose classification:

<u>Essential</u>

1. Founding of city
2. Tech advances – including those from gifts and exchanges
3. Improvements built
4. Wonders built
5. Trade routes and bonuses
6. Contact with AI civs – relations, tech exchanges and gifts/tributes
7. Change of relations with AI civs – alliance, peace, war, ceasefire
8. Destruction of AI civs
9. Diplomat activities eg embassies, bribery of units, stealing of techs
10. Goodies from huts
11. Gold bonus for capturing Barbarian Leader
12. Type of Spaceship built and date of Launch
13. Landing AC
14. Revolution and Government changes

<u>Desirable</u>

1. Units built especially commodity Caravans/Freight and Diplomats
2. Techs given to AI civs
3. Units disbanded or destroyed

My own personal view is that logs are a necessary evil in a challenge game, which helps to discipline one’s approach to the intensive micromanagement and concentration required to achieve the best result. I have also found logs helpful for jotting down useful timely information eg the location of seeding points for Barb activity and of important transient features (including unpopped huts!) revealed when maps are shared, the development of new techs by AI civs and the periodic list of ranking of wealth and advance for use later.

Edit: added item 14
[This message has been edited by tonic (edited September 18, 2000).]

[Smash]

Its just getting too tedious.One thing that happens to me ALOT is the ais will only accept 1 tech at a time.This can go on for 10+ turns at times,each one accepting 1 at a time.Friggin mightmare for 1 finger typers like me.Well,2 fingers.

If they take everything at once,thats easy-gift all.

This is the part that gives me the most trouble.

[tonic]

Smash, the point is well taken - that is why I haven't put the gifting of one's techs to the AIs as essential - only the tech one gets in exchange without the need to even mention the tech you give in exchange.

[SCG]

I might make a couple changes to the above list. Since Paul has his comparison tables set up, i might just list the things he has in there as the essential (see below) , and change tonic's "essential" list to "highly desirable". Also going probably without saying would be the game settings chosen (ie diety, ranging hordes etc), since for the senario OCC games, those can change

for techs gifted to the AI, I usually only list those on 'cutting edge' so to speak later in the game (Space Flight, Fusion Power, etc), since one of the key concepts of OCC is to gift all of your techs to lower your own research rate.

One other thing a lot of people do, which could go on the "desirable" list could be the overview/intros about the game. This usually covers your thoughts on the game and gives extra insight as to why you did things in a certain order, or possible mistakes you think you made and why you thought they were mistakes

Paul's fortnight comparison table requirements usually are:

game settings:
AC date:

government establishment dates
Monarchy:
Republic:
Democracy:

key wonders built
Colossus:
Copernicus:
Shakespeare:
Isaac Newton:
Darwin:
Apollo:


first three Trade Routes
first:
second:
third:

target technologies
Trade:
Cons:
San:
Refr:
Auto:
Comp:
SF:

key city sizes (republic celebration endpoints)
size 12:
size 21:

[Scouse Gits]

SCG - I'd say you had it about right - particularly the short "How I thought the game was going to go and how it actually went." bit - after the comparison table I find these insights the most valuable.


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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"

[Tom DeMille]

Tonic, your essential list is more than I have ever put into my logs .

There have been so many comparison games, all done with detailed logs, that newcomers can get a good feel for strategy by looking at them.

I would go with Paul's list, plus the date you build library and university (both science milestones), plus your maximum city size, plus any other "highlights" that come up in the game - destruction of AI civs, achieving alliances with all AI civs, or whatever.

[Ribannah]

quote: Originally posted by Smash on 09-18-2000 10:30 PM One thing that happens to me ALOT is the ais will only accept 1 tech at a time.This can go on for 10+ turns at times,each one accepting 1 at a time.

If you wait a few turns the AI's will not break up the conversation. In MGE asking for gifts after giving just a single tech is too risky anyway, so I took up the habit of waiting until I have 3-5 techs to give. Only if the AI is worshipful you can be reasonably sure in MGE that asking for a gift won't result in war (but even then it can happen), and next turn they will be hostile again, or uncooperative if you are so lucky to have an ally.

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Oldman]

Another method we could use would be a list comprising the essentials for Paul's table and a summary, say a couple of lines every 10/15 turns!??! it'd give people a better insight into what happened and when!!

When's the next one coming around? you're not waiting for me to finish my scenario are you? I've not even played Tom's yet, it's been hectic here!??!

[Paul]

I don't have much time to play at the moment either and only 4 people have completed #17 so far, so I don't consider it a major problem that I don't yet have a scenario for #18. But if someone has a scenario, please mail it to me.

[tonic]

I'd like to see if we can get some sort of summary of opinions to date. What is the preference?

1. The Minimalist Approach:
A verbal summary as preamble to the "Highlights" summary used for the comparison table.

2. The current "model" based on Paul's recent logs, which is basically my "essential" list (which BTW does NOT require the logging of techs you gift to the AI).

[tonic]

I am surprised at the lack of interest in some sort of standardisation on this matter, if only to provide guidance for the uninitiated.

[SCG]

judging by how long its taking most of the regular OCCers to finish OCC #17, my guess is that the people most interested in some sort of a standard have less free time rather than less interest to check in at Apolyton and post/reply to any particular topic than they did over the summer.

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Sleep is a luxury and I don't have Shakespeare's Theatre in my back yard.

[Scouse Gits]

Minimalist - but I will happily conform (within reason) to any standard that makes sense.

SCG - you've got it!!

:Eek:

p.s. OCC#17 still to advance past -3500! I'm slipping again.

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"