Thread Tools
Old July 19, 2001, 15:17   #61
joseph1944
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by TechWins
I see that colonies can have a purpose but I feel that they don't seem to be very useful. I'm not sure how valuable that resource really is going to be for me to use 1pop point on it. It might all depend on how much happiness a temple will provide if any happiness at all for you to have a big need of getting a luxury resource.

Will there still be resources like wine, buffalo, wheat, ect... that will help your food/trade/production like they did in Civ2? That's why I'm skeptical about if a resource is in your 21 city radius you might still be able to get the extra food/trade/production from it like you could in Civ2 and possibly the function that resource would normally provide. This may only be possible if you do have borders, but will it be possible to get the function of a Civ2 resource and a Civ3?

It appeared to me that in the resource/colony preview the border increased by 2 tiles when the cultural improvement (I can't remember what improvement it was) was built. It could also depend on the improvement for how much your borders will expand. Hypothetically, a library could only expand your borders 1 tile and a temple could expand your borders 2 tiles.
Tech I'm now switching back and fore with Civ 2. I started a city and it is producting 5 wheat. 2 for 1 pop. & 3 to gain a pop point. It has taken 7 turns to gain another pop point (2). If there is a needed resource just 2 tiles from your city center, are you going to wait until your city expands to 21 tiles or build a colony now. These are the decision that each player will have to make. Remember you city will start with only the first 9 tiles and you will have to wait until it expand to 10 tiles before it will show the 21 tile expansion, or build the first Culture improvement if available.
 
Old July 19, 2001, 15:22   #62
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:30
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
I think there's a bit of confusion here. Ordinary squares which give a "regular" bonus (added food, shields, trade) don't have to be inside your culture-borders to be harvested; they just have to be within the city radius. Extraordinary squares which add a needed resource (Silk, Iron, Oil, etc.) need to be within your culture borders or have a colony on them in order to be harvested. Culture borders don't start at one square out from the city; they start 0 squares from the city.
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
Old July 19, 2001, 15:55   #63
TechWins
King
 
TechWins's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:30
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,747
Quote:
(Silk, Iron, Oil, etc.)
Will silk still give you that bonus? What about the other resources such as iron, oil, coal, ivory, etc... will they give you a bonus?

Quote:
These are the decision that each player will have to make.
Yes, I agree. I feel that colonies won't be very useful, they may not be useless but I don't think they're going to be that usefull.

Quote:
Tech; I started a MPG game last night, It said 20 turns to build a temple that early in the game.
It really just varies on what your production is. Plus I was making up a hypothetical situation. Don't play so much into numbers.
__________________
However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.
TechWins is offline  
Old July 22, 2001, 23:57   #64
tniem
King
 
Local Time: 06:30
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Hope College
Posts: 2,232
I would like to apologize. I started this thread due to the fact that I had not seen any colonies in screen shots since the slide show. Well, this was due to me missing the obvious - a screen shot from Firaxis. If you want to see a colony and what appears is a worker about to found another colony coming out of a road north of Rome, click the following link:

http://www.firaxis.com/civ3/images/a...Map_Screen.jpg


Now, does this mean that I am going to throw out my theory that colonies are not that important?

No of course not. I am way to stuborn for that. I still believe (may be because I refuse that ICS will be fixed) that founding a city and buying a temple would be more cost efficent than using a colony. Maybe in time I will find out otherwise. But for now, at least I wanted to point out some of the error in my ways.
tniem is offline  
Old July 23, 2001, 20:27   #65
JellyDonut
Prince
 
JellyDonut's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:30
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Köln, Deutschland
Posts: 500
Hmm...that screenshot doesn't show what resource the colony is harvesting.
__________________
"Proletarier aller Länder, vereinigt euch!" -- Karl Marx & Friedrich Engels
"If you expect a kick in the balls and get a slap in the face, that's a victory." -- Irish proverb

Proud member of the Pink Knights of the Roundtable!
JellyDonut is offline  
Old July 23, 2001, 20:52   #66
Col Bigspear
Warlord
 
Col Bigspear's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:30
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Manchester, England. Im 1/2 Polish and proud of it!
Posts: 144
.....But if it was you playing you would know.
If you are making a point about wanting to know what that resource is because you are attacking it, then I suppose tough, you get what your given!. If it's something you have lots of then you now have more of it.
Or if theirs still a key that removes all cities from the map, then you might see whats under it?.
__________________
"I know not with what weapons WWIII will be fought with, but WWIV will be fought with sticks & stones". Albert Einstein
"To Alcohol, the cause of and solution to all life's problems"- Homer Simpson
Col Bigspear is offline  
Old July 23, 2001, 22:47   #67
JellyDonut
Prince
 
JellyDonut's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:30
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Köln, Deutschland
Posts: 500
Or maybe you can see by clicking on it like seeing supply and demand for a city in Civ2.
__________________
"Proletarier aller Länder, vereinigt euch!" -- Karl Marx & Friedrich Engels
"If you expect a kick in the balls and get a slap in the face, that's a victory." -- Irish proverb

Proud member of the Pink Knights of the Roundtable!
JellyDonut is offline  
Old July 23, 2001, 23:42   #68
TechWins
King
 
TechWins's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:30
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,747
I think the only way you should know what your opponents colony is harvesting is if you have an embassy with that civ or you have had a unit directly next to the colony at some point in time before.
__________________
However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.
TechWins is offline  
Old July 24, 2001, 06:11   #69
Grumbold
Emperor
 
Grumbold's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:30
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 3,732
Since you wouldn't know the colony was there unless you had got close enough to lift the fog of war I don't understand your point.

We were discussing before that these are not really colonies, they are industries, and that much of the confusion about whether or not they can expand into cities or recover their population is from the confusing terminology. If they decide to make changes I hope one will be to make the artwork distinctive to represent the activity. It's pretty easy to distinguish a copper mine from a silk farm.
__________________
To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. H.Poincare
Grumbold is offline  
Old July 24, 2001, 09:18   #70
tniem
King
 
Local Time: 06:30
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Hope College
Posts: 2,232
Grumbold,

Have to agree with you on that one. You should be able to know what is made in the colony without having to spy. It should be a simple mater of trade and word of mouth. If the AI is offering to trade bronze with you, you will want to know where it comes from. And if there is a colony that you know about, then it would not be that hard for word of mouth to come back to you that the colony produces bronze.
tniem is offline  
Old July 24, 2001, 09:38   #71
death_head
Prince
 
Local Time: 05:30
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Caledonia, IL, USA
Posts: 388
Even though in real life it would be very easy to find out these kinds of things, in the game it would be more interesting if you had to spy or whatever to obtain production information.
death_head is offline  
Old July 24, 2001, 19:59   #72
TechWins
King
 
TechWins's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:30
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,747
Quote:
Even though in real life it would be very easy to find out these kinds of things, in the game it would be more interesting if you had to spy or whatever to obtain production information.
Yeah, I would have to agree. It would add a little bit more strategy. Anything that will make the game more fun (even if it makes the game more difficult) I am all for it. That is why I want it to be this way.
__________________
However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.
TechWins is offline  
Old July 25, 2001, 16:18   #73
Provost Harrison
Apolytoners Hall of FameCivilization IV PBEMPolyCast Team
Deity
 
Provost Harrison's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:30
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Germans own my soul.
Posts: 14,861
I am sure it would be very easy to determine what is produced in a colony. Remember the 'view terrain' button?
__________________
Speaking of Erith:

"It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith
Provost Harrison is offline  
Old July 26, 2001, 06:42   #74
Grumbold
Emperor
 
Grumbold's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:30
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 3,732
Thats what I mean. With view terrain being in-game, the only reason to leave them identical is to cut down on artwork. Since Firaxis are doing their best to include all sorts of fancy animated artwork in the game, a few more atmospheric stills of different workshop types seems a little thing to add to the mix.
__________________
To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. H.Poincare
Grumbold is offline  
Old July 26, 2001, 07:39   #75
BigRich
The Courts of Candle'Bre
Warlord
 
BigRich's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:30
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: of the Trentan
Posts: 195
Quote:
Originally posted by TechWins


Well, that depends on how long it will take to build a certain cultural expansion improvement and how long it will take you to build a colony.
Also bear in mind that culture depends on how long your improvement has been around. I think we are assuming that cultural growth is going to be fairly rapid when thats not necessarily going to be true.
Seems to me that colonies are going to be useful, even from picking out the meager positive points people have mentioned so far.

Rich.
BigRich is offline  
Old July 27, 2001, 20:28   #76
meriadoc
Warlord
 
meriadoc's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:30
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Troy, NY
Posts: 188
First of all, I'd like to remind people that they're making assumptions on how colonies are going to work based on ideas and concepts from Civ2. Things will change. Just a reminder.

Also, after reviewing the slideshow on the use of colonies, it is clear to me that they do only one thing: they collect the special resources (eg: silk) of the tile that they are on. They don't grow, they don't collect neighboring resources, and they don't give the population point back to the city that envelops them.

Personally, I think that colonies are a good idea and will be equally useful in both ancient and modern times. In ancient times I'll just be starting out with a few small cities and as a result my borders will be small to nonexistant. I'll have resources that will eventually be inside these borders and I'll have resources that will be outside.

Now when making my decisions, I have to keep in mind how quickly I need the resource, how long it'll take to expand my borders (we do not know how long it'll take to build the necessary buildings), and whether I can afford to shrink my city.

First, the resources that will eventually be inside my borders. I don't know right now how long it'll take to expand the borders, but I bet that it'll take awhile and I'd much rather be spending time building stuff like defensive units and city growth and happiness improvements. So I build a worker or two and go and found the necessary colonies to collect the resources. Yes my city shrinks but it will regrow fairly quickly at this stage of the game. If I don't need the resources then I don't build the colonies.

Now, here's where I really see the use of colonies, and this is where I really want them. There are going to be plenty of resources outside of my borders. How do I get them? Do I go and build a new city, or a new colony? True the city looks better at first since it can get bigger, build things, and add to the empire. However, if that resource is outside of my borders then chances are that I didn't want to build a city there in the first place or that a city won't fit there without overlapping the radii of existing cities. There are also going to be resources that I just can't build a city near, whether they be near another civilization's borders, or in the middle of Antartica.

Finally, when my empire has reached modern times and I really don't have room for any more cities. I discover a new technology and therefore a new resource. Do I waste the settler building a city that will never grow to more than size 3? I don't think so.

Now, before everyone yells at me for my views, remember that it is my opinion and I am not telling you what to think.
__________________
The Electronic Hobbit
meriadoc is offline  
Old July 28, 2001, 11:37   #77
JellyDonut
Prince
 
JellyDonut's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:30
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Köln, Deutschland
Posts: 500
Good work, meriadoc

I agree pretty much with everything you say. Colonies will be not only useful but a nice addition to strategy and decision-making.
__________________
"Proletarier aller Länder, vereinigt euch!" -- Karl Marx & Friedrich Engels
"If you expect a kick in the balls and get a slap in the face, that's a victory." -- Irish proverb

Proud member of the Pink Knights of the Roundtable!
JellyDonut is offline  
Old July 28, 2001, 15:43   #78
meriadoc
Warlord
 
meriadoc's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:30
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Troy, NY
Posts: 188
Thank you. It's nice to know that someone reads my stuff and, more importantly, there is someone on these forums who doesn't react violently to every little thing.
__________________
The Electronic Hobbit
meriadoc is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:30.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team