when the UN breaks down

Father Beast · September 30, 2000, 19:50

I have been playing with the UN as my defense for hundreds of years in this one game. the AI would sometimes sneak attack, sometimes declare war without talking because I bribed their neighbors int war with them or somesuch, but thought myself immune to declarations of war during negotiations. I used this continually to step all over my enemies faces.
Then it happened, The Americans didn't like my reply to something, said they'd had enough, and declared war. They wouldn't talk to me for the next 30 years.

so what governs when the UN doesn't work? I noticed that this happened in that first viking story as well.

finbar · September 30, 2000, 22:11

The UN doesn't always guarantee peace as you'd think. The AI civs can and will remain at war with you, telling you to cease your idle chatter (or whatever the message is). Its real benefit, for what it's worth, is the embassies it establishes.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591
[This message has been edited by finbar (edited September 30, 2000).]

Smash · October 1, 2000, 02:37

It doesn't stop ais from declaring war thru a 3rd party or in response to your "unreasonable" demands.
After that though, when you contact an ai you are at war with,they must accept peace treaty if offered.
But they will still sneak attack you.They do go into anarchy if necessary(representative government).

I'm not sure,but I think your reputation may play a role.I've had total war,backstabbing,treaty violating games where at some point they just won't talk to you.With the UN and without any battles the previous turn.Perhaps there is a flag for breaking treaties a certain # of times.

Another thing that happens is your current relationship with a civ changes to contact without you knowing it.Either for no apparent reason or subversion by a 3rd civ.Watching your embassies every turn helps here as these changes can occur with the same civ every turn.
ie-you check your embassy and it says "contact" despite the peace treaty you have had for 50 turns.So you contact and a new peace treaty is signed.Next turn,they are back to "contact" again.Its quite annoying.

Ribannah · October 1, 2000, 13:59

quote:

Originally posted by Smash on 10-01-2000 02:37 AM
You check your embassy and it says "contact" despite the peace treaty you have had for 50 turns.So you contact and a new peace treaty is signed.Next turn,they are back to "contact" again.Its quite annoying.

AFAIK this is a bug which only happens with the purple tribes. Memory overlap, I'd wager, same as with the calculated GNP.

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

Adam Smith · October 2, 2000, 10:21

I think the AI civs revert to "contact" if they have changed government since you signed a peace treaty with them.

The Mad Viking · October 2, 2000, 10:45

I can vouch for the fact that it is not exclusive to purple tribes. I think Adam's hypothesis may be partly correct, but "Contact" is not a universal result of an AI government change- more often than not, the treaty lasts through the government change.

Is it possible that many turns w/o contact with the civ can devolve the treaty into contact?

finbar · October 2, 2000, 20:02

Or it just allows them to attack when they feel like it.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

Smash · October 2, 2000, 23:39

I just chalk it up to an ai cheat so it can attack freely.I had it happen to the same civ turn after turn so interval can't be it and the ai wasn't changing governments every turn so I don't know.Not just purple either.The only thing I know about it is that it is very annoying.

Father Beast · October 3, 2000, 00:14

I don't have a problem with the AI losing contact with me (although I have had the perplexing event of asking someone to declare war on somebody and they say they have no contact with them. This after they had just signed a peace treaty with each other).
My problem is when I am IN NEGOTIATIONS, and they tell me "if you didn't have the UN wrapped around your finger, we would teach you a lesson in manners". I then ask them to remove their troops, and THEY DECLARE WAR!
to add insult, they then refuse to talk to me for years, until they are ready for peace. When the AI has the UN, I can't declare war, except by sneak attack, and I can't refuse to talk to them no matter who I am.

mark13 · October 3, 2000, 10:19

This sounds to me like another inconsistency in the AI game functions. Very annoying, I know, but Sid games have a history of it, a bit like the way you can't just declare war without it hurting your reputation.

Father Beast · October 7, 2000, 06:00

How does the UN work in multiplayer? do you have to offer peace? can you declare war on a player with the Un or great wall?

Smash · October 7, 2000, 16:34

Its works in MP for republics or democracies.The senate thing.You run the risk of collapse.It definitely increases the chances of a government NOT falling.More so than regular solo play.

No problem attacking the UN owner.Just be commie, fundy, refuse to negotiate or go anarchy.

As far as the original question,it sounds as if you have a ceasefire instead of an actual peace treaty.Sometimes when contacted the ai will only offer a ceasefire.YOU must go the next step and propose a peace treaty.
If there was any battle on the current or previous turn they won't talk to you.

Mercantile · October 7, 2000, 20:39

There have been times where my rep hasnt' taken a beating by sneak attacking, is this random?