Crusader Scenario Succession Game? - Page 2

kcbob · July 26, 2001, 15:20

Based on my pitiful start and Rasputin's comments, I couldn't agree more, SG. While the overland route would be shorter and quicker if given free passage, the need to avoid contact with the peoples along the way is going to make that path virtually impossible to manage.

Given the goal of stopping the Turks from running amok, would producing units and donating them to the Byzantines be a course of action worth considering? It's either that or perhaps sailing around the coast.

Maybe the greatest joy of this scenario is going to be not the running commentary but, rather, the ongoing planning and surmising.

*edit*

Here's the roster posted on the top of this page.

kcbob
Rasputin
Marquis de Sodaq
Scouse Gits(1)
SG2
Julius
La Fayette

I took off the email address since the attaching of the zipped file seems to work just fine.

Marquis de Sodaq · July 26, 2001, 21:24

Okay, Rasputin, post that save game (with english corpses and all

) so I can continue the crusade! Down with the naysayers!

Rasputin · July 26, 2001, 23:12

sorry i though t i had attasched the gaem her eit is now

Rasputin · July 26, 2001, 23:17

and per SG comemnts, what is the pupose of making a scenario tha tis not based on history, surely all the europeans shopuld be attacking the damn scum in mid east...

Rasputin · July 26, 2001, 23:20

and per SG comemnts, what is the pupose of making a scenario tha tis not based on history, surely all the europeans shopuld be attacking the damn scum in mid east...

looks like another game showing just how much trade ruins this gaem, it is way too big a deal, without treade you cant win, even in a war scenario like this one

La Fayette · July 27, 2001, 01:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Rasputin
without treade you cant win, even in a war scenario like this one

Raz
what do you think happens in the real life?
(IMHO many armours and howitzers always win in the end against individual spirit and sacrifice; how do you buy them then? TRADE, my friend! ).

Scouse Gits · July 27, 2001, 03:04

... and further we are once more hoist on the petard of MGE's 'improved' AI - this scenario was designed for FW v2.5.8 - I have no doubt that the European Powers would be more malleable under that game engine.

Anyway I am sure that King Richard would have agreed that the best possible way of curbing Turkish aggression would have been to sack Paris! Sorry LaFayette

La Fayette · July 27, 2001, 07:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Anyway I am sure that King Richard would have agreed that the best possible way of curbing Turkish aggression would have been to sack Paris! Sorry LaFayette

No need to be sorry, sir!
I have lived 25 years of my life hard at work in that enlightened city. That is more than enough for my pleasure. I have no plan at all to move away from the region of Toulouse and Albi (the so called 'Midi Pyrénées').
Please SG, sack Paris if you feel like it!
(I am quite sure the archbishop will bless you if this is meant to hit the infidels)

(La Fayette, watching the movie named 'Paris brûle-t-il?'; I don't know the american title)

Marquis de Sodaq · July 27, 2001, 09:50

Because the save game was not yet posted, I took the liberty of playing the scenario from the beginning. I played for about 40 turns, and have some strategy ideas. Don't accept them as writ, feel free to do whatever the demons tell you to do. I'll play my real turn soon!

1. Most objectives are in the south, we ought to use our conversion (bribery) funds to soak up barbarian cities there, instead of the far north. After converting Scotland and Ireland first, of course. Those 5 cities cost about 1200 gold.

2. Many cities in the south are not visible at the start. The island cities (read: easy to defend once captured, safe havens, production base) are a cinch to sack. Cagliari, Polermo and Cyprus can be secured with a small force. Alas, the young, dashing knights who left port were wrinkled and gray by the time they disembarked. Ships really should be faster in this game.

3. Al-Andalus has many valuable techs to trade. They have superior units that we, too, should be using.

4. The Holy GermanRomans appear to be the real tough guys, but their northern cities are unwalled at the beginning. If we make any plunge into the continent, these should be the targets. Particularly after getting those fancy andalusian military ideas. (wink, nudge)

5. Trade with the continent will be an important source of income. Once we have caravels, take a merchant along with each invasion force.

6. The pikeman bonus is basically worthless, as most mounted units have 2hp.

As far as trade being important, It doesn't seem too unrealistic. What is unrealistic is the crusaders crusading against each other, not against the Seljuq turks. There should maybe have been some diplomatic checks done when the scenario was made. O well, the game is afoot! Put aside your concerns, there are godless heathens to kill! (I'll try to play my turn tonight)

Marquis de Sodaq · July 27, 2001, 22:09

In the year of our lord 1114, the Archbishop of Sodaq is assigned leadership of the crusade against the infidel. In order to continue building our forces, we must improve the land in our holy England. New production orders are given to the realm.

1117 - We meet some bright fellows from Andalusia. Altho they are heathen scum and rather dark to boot, we trade knowledge with them. They teach us Navigation, Siege Engineering, Camel Riding, and Craftmanship. Now we can build really cool war machines.

The Byzantines, despite owning no camels, are keen to trade us Invention for Camel Riding. For a reasonable fee of a mere 200 gold, we teach them Navigation.

1118 - Taxmen shake down scottish coal merchants for 22 gold.

1119 - Fatimids kick the frogs out of Jerusalem! Leave it to the French to offer a fine resistance!

Perhaps we need to capture the holy city ourselves... On a good note, the French capture Valencia.

1121 - Copper merchants return from Lisbon with 88 gold. We make peace with the Holy Geroman Empire and a cease-fire with the frogs.

1122 - An Irish city of old
called Limerick I am told
was converted early this May
as the pubs closed for the day
for two hundred seventy five gold.

1124 - Spice merchants return from Paris with 138 gold, gold merchants from Rheims with 90 gold, and copper merchants from Cordoba with a fat 284 gold! Gold! Gold, I tell you! Gold! Ahem, we are saintly, not materialistic here.

The Archbishop of Sodaq has ordered the cog and knights exploring the mediterranean to go sack that seething pit of sin, Cagliari. It could be a good base from which to start crusading.

Scouse Gits · July 29, 2001, 13:53

Sorry been off-line for a couple of days - posting now from SG2's - the builders have finally got to my final redoubt and my machine has been moved to the new 'study' or it will be when I get

some furniture
some power/light
a phone line or two
my ISDN connection

until then my posting and general e-comms will be somewhat shaky ....

Scouse Gits · July 30, 2001, 11:56

Crusader Succession Log

After long discussions the Synod of Liverpool decided to recall the Anchorite GitI from his Scriptorium and place him in charge of the Church Militant for a ten year term ...
1124 - adjust tax rate to 7.2.1 - rioting quelled
1125 - Dublin converted
1126 - Gold London - Koln - 192g - funds the expansion of London's Financial District
1127 -
1128 - The doomed assault on Cagliari simply confirmed that green troops cannot take City Walls ...
1129 - Gems - York - Brugge - 132g
1130 - Silver - Cardiff - rouen - 95g
1131 - Gems - Oxford Rennes - 54g; Gems - Leicester - Rheims - 144g; Waterford converted
1132 - Silk - Liverpool - Rennes - 84g
1133 -
1134 - Task fulfilled the Anchorite GitI returns to his Scriptorium ...

Marquis de Sodaq · July 30, 2001, 13:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
1128 - The doomed assault on Cagliari simply confirmed that green troops cannot take City Walls ...

Hmmm... They must have built those right before you got there. O well, there will be more chances later.

Scouse Gits · July 31, 2001, 04:32

I downloaded the 1134 save and began examining the Empire. Leicester has an interesting garrison:

a) Warrior
b) Archer
c) Stealth Fighter

---------------------

SG(2)

Scouse Gits · July 31, 2001, 04:35

Woops, my alter ego - you have neglected to put the save game in the same directory as the d/led scenario!!!

Scouse Gits · July 31, 2001, 05:42

Oh .... b*****
How boring - just when I planned an early arrival at Gare du Nord

--------------

SG(2)

Julius Brenzaida · July 31, 2001, 05:59

Gare du Nord ? I thought Orly or Roissy would have been more appropriate with your stealth fighter; that is unless you planned to use the tunnel under the channel

Scouse Gits · July 31, 2001, 08:31

The best way to travel around France is by TGV

---------------

SG(2)

Rasputin · August 1, 2001, 01:12

hey quit acting like me and spamming and get on with the game, we got some damn payback owed those frenchies ...

Scouse Gits · August 1, 2001, 05:57

Hey, Raz - take a chill pill!

Remember, Revenge is a dish best eaten cold!

Rasputin · August 1, 2001, 06:23

you know , i dont know who first said that, but he is wrong, revenge is best when it is swift and hard.... I know from my own experiences trying it both ways !!!!

Julius Brenzaida · August 1, 2001, 07:00

Oh my God, I never thought we would get that realistic

The defender of the holy faith take it on themselves before ever finding the ennemy

True for them and true for us

Scouse Gits · August 2, 2001, 07:10

1134 - Jerusalem seems a long way

At Admiralty Buildings, London, the cry went out for a better navy! So this term of office will be spent trading. The city of Lubeck was considered as a target as it holds the Hanseatic League (Adam Smith). Our maintenance costs would be reduced by about 40g per year with the wonder.
1136 Gold to Boullon 174g
1137 Silver/Silk to Bremen 135/144g
1139 Oops - Lubeck costs 2664g.

Strange game ... the missionary who attempted to convert Lubeck found no new technology, yet International Trade (which we don't have) is a prerequisite for the Hanseatic League? Embassy created with Holy Roman Empire. N.B. Their capital is Magdeburg as well as Rome!? (That's why their northern european cities are so expensive)
1140 Gems to Viborg 102g - Viborg converted for 432g. Alliance with French (at the expense of declaring war on Andalusia) Gift of 50g. Give Byzantines Siege Engineering and receive gift of 250g.
1141 Spice to Rheims 156g; Coal to Hamburg 130g
1142 Viborg converted for 432g: Spice to Clermont 186g
1143 Gems to Paris 192g; Spice to Bremen 198g; Beads/Dye to Orleans 100/80g
1144 PHYSICS now researching The Compass ... for some nasty ships

-------------------

SG(2)

Marquis de Sodaq · August 2, 2001, 09:08

In case you are puzzled, SG(2), the scenario designer could have given the HRE the tech for the wonder, built it, then removed the tech. OR, the tech could have a "no" prerequisite, which disallows theft and research.

Multiple palaces have been used well in different scenarios to prevent bribing. Perhaps the sack of Magdeburg would alleviate the problem?

Julius Brenzaida · August 4, 2001, 16:40

1145 ad, Byzantines develop international trade. We exchange it, but then they reclame 723 gold to keep the alliance ! Eck, we say no and they cancel it. It’s all going to be about money, money and money ! We’re going to trade, get rich and buy the world. Is this the correct plan ?
1146, 3 merchants to Paris a little more than 200 gold. Add 50 more in 1147.
1849, 149 gold for copper Merchants, always in Paris. We convert Skara in Norvege. 2 Merchants in Poitiers and Bordeaux (108 for spice). And so on, so on. Many other merchants in the following years.
1850, we convert Oslo.
1852, we convert Lund.
... nothing else ! Ah yes we build the city of Newcastle. with 3 specials

Julius Brenzaida · August 4, 2001, 16:43

I’ve chosen to build a few improvements (marketplaces). Eh, we’re almost playing perfectionnist !!! A few more peasants are improving the land. Hopefully, we’ll get rich soon. I have tried to make London a SMC (super money city), but it doens’t celebrate. In a few turns it will be size 12 and it should start. The next military step should be to buy Königsberg, I think. It wasn’t very exciting, let us say that I played for a “future investment”.

Julius Brenzaida · August 4, 2001, 16:45

Lafayette, which version of MGE do you have. I am the proud owner of the French one, and it wouldn’t play the scenario until I made all the .txt files into .fre ! In case you are experiencing trouble, it maybe the solution. Si tu veux, je t’envoie les fichiers déjà transformés.

La Fayette · August 4, 2001, 17:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Julius Brenzaida
Si tu veux, je t’envoie les fichiers déjà transformés.

Bien volontiers.
I am in fact experiencing trouble (unsolved for the time being, though I got helping hands from over the channel).
It would be fun playing with the scenario I get on my french version, because of the strong units it provides ( such as a camelrider acting as a bomber).
Much better though if you can send me files which allow to play a fair game against that poor AI.
Thank you very much, Julius!

(La Fayette, trying to put on an english uniform, not finding it easy at all).

La Fayette · August 4, 2001, 17:57

BTW, Julius, if you really converted Lund in 1852, I had better hurry up if I wish to be able to sack Paris before 1940

Julius Brenzaida · August 5, 2001, 05:53

Bon, voici les fichiers à installer dans ton répertoire (probablement c:\mps\civ2\scenarios\croisade qqchose). Il faut également que tu aies préalablement installé tous les fichiers en anglais selon les instructions des Scouse Gits. Je poste le zip ici, des fois que d’autres heureux possesseurs de la « French version » veuillent nous rejoindre dans notre croisade, ou simplement essayer de faire mieux. Si c’est ce dernier point qui les intéresse, je viens de leur donner un sacré coup de main avec mes 10 tours de jeu !