2001 Tourney Protocols/Rules

deity · July 20, 2001, 18:48

I suggested that it would be good form for the host to pick their civ last. I'm pleased to see that arii as host has agreed to do that in his group and think all groups should do this.

Cavebear, with the maps, I have a few queries:

I understand they are custom maps at King level, 1x, Roving Bands with huts. The only restrictions are NO City OR Unit bribe.*

Are there only 4 civs like last year? I hope so. AI would mess things up. arii's group seems to think there are 7 cvs?

Is it watertight that each civ only starts with ONE settler? Sometimes Germans get 2 settlers at King level but not sure if this happens on custom maps.

Sorry if I'm stating the bleeding obvious but you never know!

* All rules are as per normal civ but there are some 'features' that everyone (?) seems to use as 'normal'.
IE,
Incremental Rush Buying;
Ship chaining;
Keep building Wonders after they are completed.....
I think these are OK. I've checked whilst playing many games about these and the majority seem to think they are fine.

Then there are things like Triangulation (controversy last year);
Swapping cities for Trade benefits;
Caraporting;
Sharing Wonders... etc etc...
These are generally regarded as NOT OK.

I thought some prior rulings by you would assist in resolving disputes BEFORE they happen

Maybe wait for a few opinions in this thread first though....

markusf · July 20, 2001, 20:58

Swapping cities for Trade benefits

ya whatever diety. Its the exact same as trading tech, even worse is when 2 people go and gang up on someone else. Your going to get your ass kicked live with it

deity · July 20, 2001, 21:06

Quote:

Originally posted by markusf
Swapping cities for Trade benefits

ya whatever diety. Its the exact same as trading tech, even worse is when 2 people go and gang up on someone else. Your going to get your ass kicked live with it

Hey, you know that's not true! There has been absolutely NO liason between any of the other players about game strats.

I'll start a poll on the city swap thing. I'm not certain about it and it needs consensus...
But that sort of thing is definitely 2 players setting up a non standard or artificial civ 'device' to boost trade.

cavebear · July 20, 2001, 21:56

Quote:

Originally posted by deity
I suggested that it would be good form for the host to pick their civ last. I'm pleased to see that arii as host has agreed to do that in his group and think all groups should do this.

I agree that this is probably a good practice; just good game ettiquette.

Quote:

I understand they are custom maps at King level, 1x, Roving Bands with huts. The only restrictions are NO City OR Unit bribe.*

Are there only 4 civs like last year? I hope so. AI would mess things up. arii's group seems to think there are 7 cvs?

There will be exactly as many civs per game as there are players. No AI's. Just remember that these are scenarios and open the game with "begin scenario". Don't randomize anything (if asked - I don't think the host will be asked)!

Quote:

Is it watertight that each civ only starts with ONE settler? Sometimes Germans get 2 settlers at King level but not sure if this happens on custom maps.

I didn't realize that there were ever 2 settlers at King level, so I can't answer whether it might happen. If it does, restart the game. I did test each scenario map once, and I didn't notice it happen then.

Quote:

* All rules are as per normal civ but there are some 'features' that everyone (?) seems to use as 'normal'.
IE,
Incremental Rush Buying;
Ship chaining;
Keep building Wonders after they are completed.....
I think these are OK. I've checked whilst playing many games about these and the majority seem to think they are fine.

I don't want to try and make an endless list of rules (a nearly hopeless task), but agree that these are generally acceptable practices.

Quote:

Then there are things like Triangulation (controversy last year);
Swapping cities for Trade benefits;
Caraporting;
Sharing Wonders... etc etc...
These are generally regarded as NOT OK.

I'm embarassed to say I don't know what Triangulation or Caraporting are. That is probably why I am managing the Tourney rather than playing in it.

However, Triangulation sounds like using the city unit locator to find an opponent city. I think that is something each Group should decide themselves. If a disagreement occurs over it, then it is NOT allowed.

Is Caraporting gifting a caravan to another player to be returned to the originating Civ's cities? That is NOT OK.

The others are NOT OK.

Quote:

I thought some prior rulings by you would assist in resolving disputes BEFORE they happen

Maybe wait for a few opinions in this thread first though....

I hope this helps. My general preference is to have the game played as the creator intended it to be played, but even that involves some controversy. My best suggestion is that each Group should discuss the practices and "tricks" that concern them most and try to agree on some common rules for the particular game involved. Doing this kind of Tourney depends very much on the sense of fair play of all the participants.

Last year's Tourney was remarkably free of accusations of other player's trying to walk the "bleeding edge" of honorable play; I trust this year will be the same. Don't disappoint me.

Perhaps I will organize a Tourney some time where the only rule is "no second computer, no altering the rules.txt, and no outside software" just to see how lethal some games can get... LOL!

But not this time...

cavebear

SlowwHand · July 21, 2001, 01:19

I stated in another thread, but my vote goes to no trading of units or cites.
I would think the very nature of the tournament would dictate a "No" answer.

Hydey · July 21, 2001, 05:49

Don't worry Deity, with me in the game the worst you can finish is 3rd.

Rasputin · July 21, 2001, 05:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Hydey
Don't worry Deity, with me in the game the worst you can finish is 3rd.

Dont say that Hydey . my Buck on you @ 1 Million to one is meant to be my retirement fund

Go Hydey !!!

cavebear · July 22, 2001, 09:24

Back when it looked like there might be 30 or 40 players in this Tourney, I had said that the last-place player in each Round 1 game would be eliminated in order to reduce the field to a manageable level.

It has been brought to my attention that I never cancelled that idea. Since there are 16 players in the Tourney, there will be NO eliminations. I value each and every one of your precious little hides!

Rasputin · July 23, 2001, 00:15

phew , deity gets to paly again, i had a secret $5 punt on him too !!!

Deity Dude · July 23, 2001, 13:54

Deity I agree with you 100%. I really think we need to come up with definitive rules/protocols for all games in the tourney. I don't think, in general, that it should be left up to the players to discuss at game time. I think Cavebear as tourney directer/host should make the list. I know you said in a thread you didnt want to come up with an endless list - but unless someone comes up with the endless list we'll have endless questions and threads about it. If you feel strongly that you don't want to or don't have the time maybe someone else - I'll volunteer if no one else wants to - but input would be helpful and appreciated - could come up with a list of "issues" that the 16 players could vote on thru email sending the response to Cavebear. Cavebear could then simply compile and post the results. Remember Honest and Fair people can differ in opinion on what is Honest and Fair. The last thing I want to happen is to be called a cheater when I didn't even try or vice versa feel as though someone got an unfair advantage over me by using a tactic that I thought was not allowed. I can live with any rules that the group agrees on as long as I know what they are ahead of time.

Hydey · July 23, 2001, 18:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Rasputin
deity, i had a secret $5 punt on him too !!!

I feel cheated now

I thought I was your favorite

SlowwHand · July 23, 2001, 18:21

The group of Arii, Zylka, Berzerker, and myself begins it's first session tonight.

If there is more to be said, it needs to be said with all haste.

HawkHunter · July 24, 2001, 10:12

and 1 last question ... is this to be to the death or surrender ? i assume it is, our group is going to try to start this sunday..

SlowwHand · July 24, 2001, 10:20

Decide in advance:

City/unit swapping.
Tech exchange.
Alliances allowed or not.
TRADE

Or you'll end up negotiating a half an hour and playing 1 hour.

Also, make no assumptions about 4 on a normal sized map;
whatever that assumption may be, and I'll say no more.

Rasputin · July 24, 2001, 11:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Hydey

I feel cheated now

I thought I was your favorite

only at the right odds Hydey !!!

cavebear · July 25, 2001, 19:04

Quote:

Originally posted by HawkHunter
and 1 last question ... is this to be to the death or surrender ? i assume it is, our group is going to try to start this sunday..

Alpha Centuri or death is the preference. The PG should only be used if the game goes to 2020 without an outright winner.

cavebear · July 25, 2001, 19:22

I think these should be used as the general rules in each game, but if all the players in a specific game wish to make some other choices, that is OK. I suggest you stick with these unless your game has already started or unless a couple of them are objected to by everyone in a game:

Incremental Rush Buying - OK
Ship Chaining - NO
Gifting cities/units/caravans - NO
Hitting wait so a plane doesn't crash - NO
Formal Strategic Alliances - NO
Continuing to build a wonder after its been built - OK
Tech stealing, Embassies, sabotage - OK
Caraporting - NO
Adjusting city resources during a turn to maximize trade benefits - OK
Building an Airbase to increase production - NO
City/Unit trading/bribing- NO

SlowwHand · July 26, 2001, 01:55

That's how I saw it.
The only stickler was how many trade routes.
Varied fron unlimited to no foreign.

The Capo · July 27, 2001, 15:31

Yo Deity, maybe one of the rules should be:

- And if someone doesn't show up because they broke their f*ckin leg we play them as AI and all gang up on them. How about that one sunshine? It seemed to WORK PERFECTLY in HOTW huh?

A$$hole.

cavebear · July 27, 2001, 19:33

1. Capo, please take your argument elsewhere. You're not involved in this. Thank you...

2. Slow, I don't see any reason to make a "Tourney rule" concerning the number of trade routes or the nature of the terminating points. But it is perfectly OK for your group to decide on some restrictions of that if you all agree. In case of a failure to agree, there are no limitations on the number or the locations.