July 23, 2001, 10:24
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#31
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Prince
Local Time: 04:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 364
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Just to be a thorn in people's side, why have special units at all? Follow me on this one... if you play random maps, which I do exculisevly, special units don't make sense as they don't truly reflect geography, nor game play style.
The British had a kick-ass navy because they lived on an island... should Britian get a special Navel unit if they are stuck in the middle of a pangean type continent?
Or the Egyptians, they had chariots due to the fact they lived in the desert, would those same chariots be any good if they started in the middle of a mountain range?
I personaly thought Civ, was about "what if?" What if my civilization of Mongolians started on the coast with nothing but swamps, and forests around. I would probably move towards an oceanic type of civilization.
Same goes for civilizations with pre determined abilities... these abilities are dictated by our world, and our history. IMHO they shouldn't be determined before hand, as this is just stereotyping. In a game like MOO, racial benifits, and weaknesses make sense, but in CIV it does not.
So here I am once again being a nay sayer. Well that's what I think about this topic... feel free to disagree.
__________________
What if your words could be judged like a crime? "Creed, What If?"
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July 23, 2001, 11:23
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#32
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Prince
Local Time: 12:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Zoetermeer, The Netherlands
Posts: 306
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An Egypt specific unit could be an engineer. They were really ahead of their time with that!
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July 23, 2001, 13:27
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#33
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Prince
Local Time: 12:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Lund Sweden
Posts: 664
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Quote:
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Originally posted by November Adam
Just to be a thorn in people's side, why have special units at all? Follow me on this one... if you play random maps, which I do exculisevly, special units don't make sense as they don't truly reflect geography, nor game play style.
The British had a kick-ass navy because they lived on an island... should Britian get a special Navel unit if they are stuck in the middle of a pangean type continent?
Or the Egyptians, they had chariots due to the fact they lived in the desert, would those same chariots be any good if they started in the middle of a mountain range?
I personaly thought Civ, was about "what if?" What if my civilization of Mongolians started on the coast with nothing but swamps, and forests around. I would probably move towards an oceanic type of civilization.
Same goes for civilizations with pre determined abilities... these abilities are dictated by our world, and our history. IMHO they shouldn't be determined before hand, as this is just stereotyping. In a game like MOO, racial benifits, and weaknesses make sense, but in CIV it does not.
So here I am once again being a nay sayer. Well that's what I think about this topic... feel free to disagree.
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There will be an option to turn it off, the only reason I like the idea is because im sure it will be fun playing with unique units.
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July 23, 2001, 13:46
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#34
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King
Local Time: 06:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Hope College
Posts: 2,232
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Quote:
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Originally posted by November Adam
Just to be a thorn in people's side, why have special units at all?
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Been discussed. Most people here will agree with you. Many say no to unique units.
It would seem that Firaxis is going with unique units because that is the current trend of the market today. Personally, I would like unique units to only come based on how you have played and the choices you have made but that may be to hard to implement currently.
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July 23, 2001, 14:15
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#35
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Chieftain
Local Time: 11:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The Black Country
Posts: 83
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The Chinese special unit would have to be the rickshaw. This could be used as a transport enhancer or a weapon (take your pick).
__________________
Art is a science having more than seven variables.
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July 23, 2001, 14:20
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#36
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Prince
Local Time: 05:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Caledonia, IL, USA
Posts: 388
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I don't know how well a rickshaw would hold up in combat...
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July 23, 2001, 14:42
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#37
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Prince
Local Time: 04:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 364
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Quote:
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Originally posted by tniem
Been discussed. Most people here will agree with you. Many say no to unique units.
It would seem that Firaxis is going with unique units because that is the current trend of the market today. Personally, I would like unique units to only come based on how you have played and the choices you have made but that may be to hard to implement currently.
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It seems like a newbie such as myself, would have a hard time making, or bringing up points that haven't been used/stated before. 
I like your idea about special units being worked around how you play. I'm not sure it would be that hard to implement, as CTP2 has bonus' that are applied if your the first to do something. Units could work in a similar way. Say the first to reach a tech. or the first to a have a certain number of units... say the first person to have * number of chariots, develope greater skill, and thus get a fancy, unique chariot. Or something of this nature.
I liked the way bonus' worked in CTP2, I think it would be nice to see it added here. Example being the first to discover gunpowder, then all enemie walls aren't as effective for say * turns. This seems to work well as it doesn't screw up play balance, and it forces players to act quickly to take advantage of this new technology.
Very clever.
__________________
What if your words could be judged like a crime? "Creed, What If?"
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July 23, 2001, 17:25
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#38
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Chieftain
Local Time: 11:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 62
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To ContradictioN
I have to agree with JamesJKirk. You need to try to be politically correct when you post things in a community forum like this.
Maybe you think you're a veteran of the pacific campaign in WW2, or you think it's still the 1940's, or you think it makes you look cool, or maybe you just can't spell "JAPANESE".
In any event, that is the correct spelling, maybe you'd like to write it down?
I can think of plenty of racial and/or ethnic slurs people could post here, but don't out of respect for who may read these forums. Try to remember to be more correct in the future, unless you like looking like the village uneducated idiot.
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July 23, 2001, 17:41
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#39
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Prince
Local Time: 05:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Caledonia, IL, USA
Posts: 388
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Ooh! Ooh! Change his rank! Anyhow, I am of the opinion that Japan prefers to be known as a United States franchise... 
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July 23, 2001, 18:56
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#40
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Guest
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What the? I got flamed at!
Was I supposed to be perfect? Sorry!
I'm not like you, I don't know everything. 
MarkG, :banned: me, I don't know everything, I am not perfect.
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July 23, 2001, 19:01
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#41
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Guest
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ohh, I see, i said "Japs". Crying out loud man, Lighten up! If you take things like that seriously, you're just kidding yourself.
I'm not against Japanese! I mean... my girlfriend is Asian even!
Telling me how I should type?  Leave me alone.
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July 23, 2001, 20:56
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#42
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Prince
Local Time: 11:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Sandy Eigo, CA, USA
Posts: 347
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Chinese - Boxed spy planes (1/1/1, gives one technology to the Chinese)
English - Knight with coconuts (4/2/2, carried by an african swallow)
Zulu - Kunta Kinte (5/4/1, keeps a record of all the units that precede and follow it)
Germans - Blitzkrieg Bob (20/1/1, automatically destroys french units it encounters. Wears monocle and talks like Col. Klink)
French - Surrender Monkey (0/3/2, as Willy from the Simpsons says "Ye cheese-eatin surrender monkeys")
Americans - Florida Electorate (?/?/?, stats change every turn)
Russians - Russian Winter (12/1/1, causes all enemies to massively retreat, Russians to laugh, then complain about the cold)
Native American- That Dude from Last of the Mohicans with that Stick thing that whupped butt (20/15/10, man that guy was cool)
Japanese - Super Ninja (300/200/21, based on every 12-year-old American boy's perceptions of the relative strength of a ninja)
Romans - Gladiator (1/1/1, but provides 200 gold when created and another 200 gold when released on DVD)
Greeks - no comment.
 Just kidding! 
__________________
----
"I never let my schooling get in the way of my education" -Mark Twain
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July 23, 2001, 21:21
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#43
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Warlord
Local Time: 11:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Manchester, England. Im 1/2 Polish and proud of it!
Posts: 144
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__________________
"I know not with what weapons WWIII will be fought with, but WWIV will be fought with sticks & stones". Albert Einstein
"To Alcohol, the cause of and solution to all life's problems"- Homer Simpson
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July 23, 2001, 23:43
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#44
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Guest
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You have just given the whole world the best kept secret of WW II. Colonel Hogan and his heroes really won WW II and not the Russian.
I have almost the whole collection.
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July 23, 2001, 23:44
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#45
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Guest
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The Japanese call themselves the 'Nipponese' and call their country 'Nippon'.
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July 24, 2001, 01:13
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#46
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King
Local Time: 03:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Dixon, CA USA
Posts: 1,156
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Mister Pleasant
The Japanese call themselves the 'Nipponese' and call their country 'Nippon'.
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And Russians call their country "Rossiya" and Germans call their's "Deutschland" But the words in English are different, it's just the way it is
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July 24, 2001, 10:37
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#47
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Prince
Local Time: 05:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Caledonia, IL, USA
Posts: 388
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And we Americans call ourselves America, but that's just to annoy the Canadians at this point...
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July 25, 2001, 10:46
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#48
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Prince
Local Time: 12:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Lund Sweden
Posts: 664
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Quote:
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Originally posted by death_head
And we Americans call ourselves America, but that's just to annoy the Canadians at this point...
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I've always wondered about this, why do you call yourselves Americans? If you couldnt call yourselves Americans what would you say? USAers?
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July 25, 2001, 10:58
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#49
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Prince
Local Time: 04:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 364
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Wille
I've always wondered about this, why do you call yourselves Americans? If you couldnt call yourselves Americans what would you say? USAers?
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Nah they would call themselves "a pain in Canadians butts", or "butts" for short.
__________________
What if your words could be judged like a crime? "Creed, What If?"
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July 25, 2001, 11:05
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#50
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Deity
Local Time: 21:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Between Coast and Mountains
Posts: 14,475
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australians always call the Americans "Septic Tanks "
__________________
GM of MAFIA #40 ,#41, #43, #45,#47,#49-#51,#53-#58,#61,#68,#70, #71
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July 25, 2001, 11:25
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#51
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King
Local Time: 07:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,691
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I'm getting tired of all the people who insult the USA. I know that most of these comments were light-hearted, but I've read 5 different threads in the last 2 days where people who have never lived in the United States have talked about things they know nothing about. I'll admit that I'm in a bad mood right now, but I could say a lot of bad things about other countries represented here. If you disagree with me, say so, but don't start flaming me just because I like America.
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July 25, 2001, 11:34
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#52
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Prince
Local Time: 04:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 364
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Sabre2th
I'm getting tired of all the people who insult the USA. I know that most of these comments were light-hearted, but I've read 5 different threads in the last 2 days where people who have never lived in the United States have talked about things they know nothing about. I'll admit that I'm in a bad mood right now, but I could say a lot of bad things about other countries represented here. If you disagree with me, say so, but don't start flaming me just because I like America.
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Ah sabre my fine american friend, don't worry I was just posting in regards to "Americans, being called that to annoy Canadians", which was posted by an American.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, who can we laugh at? So from a beer swiling, hockey playing, toque wearing, dog sled driving, peace loving Canadian who lives in an igloo. Cheers!!
__________________
What if your words could be judged like a crime? "Creed, What If?"
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July 25, 2001, 11:42
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#53
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King
Local Time: 07:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,691
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Quote:
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Originally posted by November Adam
Ah sabre my fine american friend, don't worry I was just posting in regards to "Americans, being called that to annoy Canadians", which was posted by an American.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, who can we laugh at? So from a beer swiling, hockey playing, toque wearing, dog sled driving, peace loving Canadian who lives in an igloo. Cheers!!
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I didn't mean this thread specifically, I just meant that many people in these forums will talk about a nation that they've never lived in, only read or heard about. Like I said before, I'm in a bad mood, so maybe I'll feel differently about this later (like when I get out of work  )
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July 25, 2001, 11:59
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#54
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King
Local Time: 06:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Hartford, CT, USA
Posts: 1,501
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Quote:
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Originally posted by November Adam
If we can't laugh at ourselves, who can we laugh at? So from a beer swiling, hockey playing, toque wearing, dog sled driving, peace loving Canadian who lives in an igloo. Cheers!!
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Ay, damn hosers just mad we've taken all their hoceky teams away, ay. And now they have subsidize the ones they have to keep them from moving to the Bible Belt, so beer swilling rednecks can watch at least one sport where the can't watch with their fat slob shirts off, ay.
Blame Canada...Blame Canada !!!
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July 25, 2001, 12:12
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#55
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Deity
Local Time: 21:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Between Coast and Mountains
Posts: 14,475
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and for those that dont know "Septic Tanks" is simple rhyming slanf for "Yanks" actually quite often the title is simply "septics" as the rhyming word is dropped... Goes back a long way to Mother England , cockney rhyming slnag i think it was called...
My old man used to always say to us kids at nightime, "Its time to go upthe apples" meaning go up stairs to bed... Apples & Pears = Stairs .....
__________________
GM of MAFIA #40 ,#41, #43, #45,#47,#49-#51,#53-#58,#61,#68,#70, #71
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July 25, 2001, 12:18
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#56
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Prince
Local Time: 04:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 364
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Quote:
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Originally posted by SerapisIV
Ay, damn hosers just mad we've taken all their hoceky teams away, ay. And now they have subsidize the ones they have to keep them from moving to the Bible Belt, so beer swilling rednecks can watch at least one sport where the can't watch with their fat slob shirts off, ay.
Blame Canada...Blame Canada !!!
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Well we rednecks can always just watch our fun luvin CFL fooseball, well kcept for the poor fat rednecks in Winnipeg, they get airlifted from the field by their damn, skeeters.
Or for more fun we can watch as Floridans try to figure out how to punch out lil holes in a card
__________________
What if your words could be judged like a crime? "Creed, What If?"
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July 25, 2001, 13:03
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#57
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King
Local Time: 06:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Hartford, CT, USA
Posts: 1,501
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Quote:
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Originally posted by November Adam
Well we rednecks can always just watch our fun luvin CFL fooseball, well kcept for the poor fat rednecks in Winnipeg, they get airlifted from the field by their damn, skeeters.
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Most NHL teams have moved to the southern US, those were the rednecks I was referring too. You damn canucks are just a bunch of ice-fishing, plaid-wearing, beer-drinking, hockey-playing nuts who actually sent a bicycle regiment to WWII. Damn and you guys call Americans wierd. Oh yeah, please take Tom Green back, he scares me.
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July 25, 2001, 13:08
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#58
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Prince
Local Time: 04:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 364
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Quote:
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Originally posted by SerapisIV
Most NHL teams have moved to the southern US, those were the rednecks I was referring too. You damn canucks are just a bunch of ice-fishing, plaid-wearing, beer-drinking, hockey-playing nuts who actually sent a bicycle regiment to WWII. Damn and you guys call Americans wierd. Oh yeah, please take Tom Green back, he scares me.
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A bicycle unit? really? Now that would be a special unit for Canada for civ (If we even make it in the game, and if we do, please don't use Pierre Trudeau as our leader! Use Mckenzie or something)! Oh and you can keep Tom Green... he scares me too! 
__________________
What if your words could be judged like a crime? "Creed, What If?"
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July 25, 2001, 13:24
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#59
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Deity
Local Time: 07:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11,160
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Rasputin
i was going to say mummies and they would curse your nation
but how bout chariots.. they were reknown for their chariot riders thorough out history ...
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they were reknowned for their chariot riders in the late bronze age. (see richard drews, The End of the Bronze Age) but then so were all neighboring civilized states - the hittites, babylonians etc. the chariot dominated the late bronze battlefield until 1200BC. except in mountainous terrain where it was not useful. It was even dominant in India. With the rise of new modes of infantry warfare in 1200 BC the chariot became largely obsolete. And it did so as much in Egypt as anywhere.
But then what could be the unique unit of an ancient civ - seeing as these civs were so quick to adopt each others military technology, and any superiority in use was subtle, and generally is poorly documented (if at all). ?
Answer - civ specific units generally dont make much sense.
LOTM
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July 25, 2001, 13:31
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#60
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Deity
Local Time: 07:43
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11,160
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Quote:
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Originally posted by November Adam
Or the Egyptians, they had chariots due to the fact they lived in the desert, would those same chariots be any good if they started in the middle of a mountain range?
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No they wouldnt. you will note that most of the invaders of 1200BC who defeated the chariots with new infantry tactics- judeans, achaeans, sicilians, sardinians, lucians, etc were mountain peoples.
and that the one lowland "civ" which adapted best to the new conditions was Assyria, which bordered on the Zagros mountains, and had always had to fight barbarians in the mountains.
Keep on being a thorn - calling out historical truth is not trolling, its necessary here.
LOTM
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