Which Civ2 Should Be Out Of Civ3? - Page 3

Trdi · July 30, 2001, 10:03

I'm more proud on our history that I would be as an American on American history. On a short history, based on killing, slavery and, today, endangering the whole planet. When will USA sign Kjoto(the only one remaining), children protection(just USA and Nigeria haven't signed it, I think), anti-biological weapon (again, only USA need biological weapons) and other treaties? Without these basic human concepts, USA are not in the civilized world even TODAY. Karantanija was more democratic than USA today and you can view on democracy from any angle you want. I was talking about CULTURE, my dearest friend. Americans don't have ANY culture at all, comparing to European countries, so I really don't understand what are they doing in Civilisation?

JellyDonut · July 30, 2001, 10:04

Quote:

Originally posted by November Adam

I stand corrected, are there any other countries where this is the case? (Understanding that each language will have their own word).

I'm not sure, but I mentioned that because Spanish is one of the main languages of the Americas. As for the others, I know that in English and French this is not the case but I'm not sure about Portuguese.

LaRusso · July 30, 2001, 10:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Trdi
I'm more proud on our history that I would be as an American on American history. On a short history, based on killing, slavery and, today, endangering the whole planet. When will USA sign Kjoto(the only one remaining), children protection(just USA and Nigeria haven't signed it, I think), anti-biological weapon (again, only USA need biological weapons) and other treaties? Without these basic human concepts, USA are not in the civilized world even TODAY. Karantanija was more democratic than USA today and you can view on democracy from any angle you want. I was talking about CULTURE, my dearest friend. Americans don't have ANY culture at all, comparing to European countries, so I really don't understand what are they doing in Civilisation?

hehe okay,
americans accuse me of american bashing, now you are trying to accuse me of glorifying america....
all that you said above is true, except for the bit about karantanijan democracy - karantanija was a feudal feifdom so we need not get into its democratic standards. i've said all i had about americans and how nice it would be to have them in the game as an english civil war fraction instead of a full civ. now since we both agree on that, stop selling me the remarkable history of slovenia

(actually 90% of the westerners still confuse you with slovakia)

Trdi · July 30, 2001, 10:18

What the f... does this matter to me?! About Karantanija... Read some more books or at least articles about voting their chiefs (who voted them and how). Again, repeating: I was talking about pur culture! Is that too hard to understand? American culture can't be compared to European cultures? Ok? Would you, please, reveal your home country? Middle Europe, where?

LaRusso · July 30, 2001, 10:40

now as you know, the concept of mitteleuropa is cherished by many people there, especially slovenians, when it was politically oportunistic.
you are asking me to reveal the exact location so that you can pinpoint something and start some vitriolic attacks. i am sorry if i have insulted mighty caranthanian democracy, craddle of western civilization. slovenians should definitely be included into civ3. come to think of it, i will start another poll about that

November Adam · July 30, 2001, 10:41

I believe there was another thread regarding civs as nations, or civs as cultures (my apologies for taking this out of context improperly). I guess the biggest thing is, should we put in true
"civilizations" (those which started long ago), or nations...

I think it would be fun to play this game with the names of civs w/ ancient origins.

IMO

LaRusso · July 30, 2001, 10:43

Quote:

Originally posted by November Adam
I believe there was another thread regarding civs as nations, or civs as cultures (my apologies for taking this out of context improperly). I guess the biggest thing is, should we put in true
"civilizations" (those which started long ago), or nations...

I think it would be fun to play this game with the names of civs w/ ancient origins.

IMO

hm an interesting idea...but a very hard to implement. imagine discussion on whom to include as civ (and not a nation) and the ensuing row over whether us or uk have to get out

Zealot · July 30, 2001, 11:03

Quote:

Originally posted by JellyDonut

I'm not sure, but I mentioned that because Spanish is one of the main languages of the Americas. As for the others, I know that in English and French this is not the case but I'm not sure about Portuguese.

Didn't you read my post above?

Trdi · July 30, 2001, 11:03

Well, it doesn't really matter, but I would say you are from Austria. There's a lot of nacists there even today. I don't want to insult you or any other from your country, but Austria really is covered in smoke of anti-slovenian propaganda, that's why I think so... and du hast the word "mittel" geschreiben... or is it geschrieben? I'm not sure.

November Adam · July 30, 2001, 11:04

To true, one way to stay neutral is to go back before the UK, was such... when they were Anglos, and Saxxons... or even further (my history is rusty, so I don't know what they were before that).

Regarding civs that were wiped out long ago, they SHOULD be in a game, because with you as ruler, you could help them avoid being wiped out.

Trdi · July 30, 2001, 11:05

Yeah, that's true, but there are SO many "tribes" like that.

LaRusso · July 30, 2001, 11:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Trdi
Well, it doesn't really matter, but I would say you are from Austria. There's a lot of nacists there even today. I don't want to insult you or any other from your country, but Austria really is covered in smoke of anti-slovenian propaganda, that's why I think so... and du hast the word "mittel" geschreiben... or is it geschrieben? I'm not sure.

i am not austrian, nor am i german
es ist geschrieben (perfect

)
well, i know they have some anti-slovenian propaganda, but you actually should thank them for supporting your independence cause when it was not only tough but also very dangerous.
en per, clovek....good for the nerves

ciao!

Trdi · July 30, 2001, 11:24

Not per, it's pir

So you are a German speaking North-Italian? I hope you are not one of those who still think that one third of Slovenia belongs to Italy, like it was during the both wars?

November Adam · July 30, 2001, 11:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Trdi
Yeah, that's true, but there are SO many "tribes" like that.

Hmmmm, then there would be a pissing match over which tribes could stay, etc. And then all the history buffs on the forum could flex their brains, and strut around calling other people idiots.

(Of course I'm generalizing, still a little sore over my run in with one of these people).

LaRusso · July 30, 2001, 11:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Trdi
Not per, it's pir

So you are a German speaking North-Italian? I hope you are not one of those who still think that one third of Slovenia belongs to Italy, like it was during the both wars?

man, you are really obsessed with nationality.

i am not italian, nor tyrolean

Trdi · July 30, 2001, 11:39

I knew from the begininning you are from Hungary

You said sth about being in Budapest. I like Hungary, the language is so funny. You gotta be in the eastern Europe (pretenbd you didn't see that

), because you said en pir clovek, that's from the eastern Slovenia. Sure, and du kannst Deutsch sprachen (viel besser als ich), ja das ist die richtige Staat. UUUejeeee, baby!

November Adam · July 30, 2001, 11:42

Hungary!, Jo napot kivanok... (that's the extent of my Hungarian, my father is so ashamed

)

LaRusso · July 30, 2001, 11:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Trdi
I knew from the begininning you are from Hungary

You said sth about being in Budapest. I like Hungary, the language is so funny. You gotta be in the eastern Europe (pretenbd you didn't see that

), because you said en pir clovek, that's from the eastern Slovenia. Sure, and du kannst Deutsch sprachen (viel besser als ich), ja das ist die richtige Staat. UUUejeeee, baby!

location - yes
nationality - wrong again

this is getting amusing

se enkrat, model?

Trdi · July 30, 2001, 11:48

Ah, you could be any nationality than. So I won't guess again, unless you would guess all of my 5 nationalities (yes, there are five of them, but I feel like Slovenian). I just know you don't like Slovenians and that's enough for me

fittstim · July 30, 2001, 12:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Anatolia
To tell the truth, though, I never choose nations with short histories to play in Civ games. It doesn't feel right.

Well then what nations DO you play with. The oldest "American" city is St. Augustine which was founded in 1585. This gives America a "civilization" history of 416 years.

According to my reckoning, this is longer than the Aztecs, Incas, Zulus and Vikings were around.

Additionally, the USA was established in 1776 which means that it's been around longer than Germany (formed around 1880).

Babylonia, the Celts and Carthagenia all had "brief" periods of fame but they really didn't build or do much and are usually delegated to brief paragraphs in history texts. So they're out.

So your left with Rome, Egypt, Greece or Mongols - all of which haven't had an empire in many hundreds of years - or England, France, Spain or Russia - all decent but boring imperial powers - or India, China or Japan. Yawn.

Give America a break - they're the only country that exists that has managed to permeate ever spot on the earth thanks to McDonalds and Coke. So they're the perfect expansionist civ.

LaRusso · July 30, 2001, 13:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Trdi
Ah, you could be any nationality than. So I won't guess again, unless you would guess all of my 5 nationalities (yes, there are five of them, but I feel like Slovenian). I just know you don't like Slovenians and that's enough for me

i actually like them very much. many of my flatmates were slovenians.

come the ski season, had to watch every slalom there is untill their football picked up....hehe

Sabre2th · July 30, 2001, 13:56

I hate these nationality threads, but I feel obligated to jump in.

Quote:

short history, based on killing,

The U.S. doesn't just go out and fight for no reason. It (usually) is there at the request of an ally or in response to a direct threat to either itself, an ally, or an underdefended nation.

Quote:

slavery

Along with most of the world.

Quote:

endangering the whole planet.

How is that? Our president might not be very bright and our other leaders make mistakes, but we're hardly endangering the entire planet. We're endangering ourselves at best.

Quote:

When will USA sign Kjoto(the only one remaining), children protection(just USA and Nigeria haven't signed it, I think), anti-biological weapon (again, only USA need biological weapons) and other treaties?

I don't know when, or even if, but that's a part of democracy. Things like that are discussed for months, sometimes years.

Quote:

Without these basic human concepts, USA are not in the civilized world even TODAY.

Right, but the U.S. does have a firm grasp of these concepts, whether it signs the treaties or not. The U.S. has always been against biological and chemical weapons and, to my knowledge, does not use them today.

Quote:

Karantanija was more democratic than USA today and you can view on democracy from any angle you want.

Yeah, right.

Quote:

Americans don't have ANY culture at all, comparing to European countries

Just because it's different from the cultures in Europe doesn't mean there isn't any. Americans (some) like to be fat, eat junk food, and watch football (American football). This is as much a culture as anything in Europe.

Quote:

I really don't understand what are they doing in Civilisation?

The U.S. has had the biggest impact on the world economy, and without it (to name one example) WWII would've gone on much longer, if it ended at all.

My last point: Don't talk bad about a country unless you live there (and have lived there long enough to really understand it)

The Greek · July 30, 2001, 15:28

Quote:

Originally posted by To_Serve_Man
So your denying the fact that the nation of Canada is located in the North American continent? Logically Canada is an American nation.

I already know Canada is a seprate nation

The civ Americans implies to me that it includes the cultures, and peoples of the America continent. Its like.... England. We dont have 4 Civs to for england (Britan, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland) We combine the all. But those people in those areas my have a small accent diffrenece, but are not seperate nations. Thats what American civ does. It combines seperate nations in a large area together. It shouldnt.

HAHAHAHAA!!!!! Americans can be so arrogant! BRITAIN encompases England, Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland..not ENGLAND!!!! Oh my god... i cant believe how shortsighted some americans are...

Bush quotes:

'Holland? Which state is that in'
'If we dont use more energy we are facing a dark future...'

And i use the term 'american' to mean 'from USA', for canadians dont seem to have the same problem.

Sabre2th · July 30, 2001, 16:07

Quote:

Originally posted by The Greek
HAHAHAHAA!!!!! Americans can be so arrogant! BRITAIN encompases England, Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland..not ENGLAND!!!! Oh my god... i cant believe how shortsighted some americans are...

One person making an honest mistake makes all Americans arrogant? Maybe you're the one who's shortsighted. There's no reason to jump down his throat and insult all Americans (U.S.) just because he misspoke.

Also - I won't deny that Bush isn't the brightest man ever, but there have been many other world leaders (not necessarily from U.S.) who were worse.

You are obviously new to Apolyton, so I suggest you go read the FAQ and study the rules Mark and Dan have set.

Footie Mad · July 30, 2001, 16:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Sabre2th

Also - I won't deny that Bush isn't the brightest man ever, but there have been many other world leaders (not necessarily from U.S.) who were worse.

And really, since when has intelligence made a leader succesfull?
Sure I dont like Bush but thats based on other things ( death penalty, abortion rights etc ) and not because of some ( alot ) dumb things he says.

The Greek · July 30, 2001, 16:37

Notice i said 'can be' and 'some'.
I feel completely justified in this, for almost all posts i have ever had trouble with were posted by americans. I have never seen any other race with such high, undeserved, opinons of themselves.
Sure, other arrogant/ignorant people exist, and certainly not all, (or anywhere near all) americans are like this, but it is just a conclusion i have come to that in general, americans have this problem...

And I dont think he misspoke 2 times. It is a clear case of ignorance. Have you ever seen a european saying North America, Canada and mexico make up the USA?

TCO · July 30, 2001, 16:59

Quote:

Originally posted by TechWins

Yeah, exactly it is a big ripoff of your thread. Serapis told me to take a poll on it, though. So I did, as you can see. I'm sorry in doing this if I offended you in anyway. I had no intention in doing that. The only difference betwee our two threads is that mine is a poll. Plus I figured your thread was going to end soon with it being so long in all in such a short period of time. By the way, thanks for creating that thread. It may have got off topic but there was a lot of good discusstion going on in it, I posted many times in it. Again sorry for that.

I'm sorry to all those people who voted for the Americans because you are jealous people.

It be cool! I just woulda liked to share the credit with Serapis...err...and maybe a link back to da old thread.

Keep the faith. Anti-Americans are jealous! Down with the Aztecs!!

The Greek · July 30, 2001, 17:53

Quote:

Originally posted by GP
Keep the faith. Anti-Americans are jealous! Down with the Aztecs!!

There we go again.....
Sure, I totally agree. It must be jealousy. Everyone trully wishes to be american. After all, it is so mighty and powerfull and *cough* non hypocritical...it must be jealousy. Could not possibly be any of the other reasons mentiones in the threads above. After all, there is nothing wrong with great america. It must be those poor eastern european people who still live in mudhuts in some place called Paris or something who are so damn jealous of our jobs and financial wealth.

And to the guy above who said the british empire was dull?
And that the vikings were around for less than 400 years, and some other crap along those lines?... I think he is american too... same attitude to other races...How the hell can oneguy dismiss so many of the greatest races the world has seen?...

TCO · July 30, 2001, 18:58

No sweat geek! The rugged pioneers of America enjoy your your kvetching! Down with the Redcoats!

The Greek · July 30, 2001, 19:21

Quote:

Originally posted by GP
No sweat geek! The rugged pioneers of America enjoy your your kvetching! Down with the Redcoats!

wow...geek instead of greek.... it must have taken you some time to come up with that one. You must be ****ting yourself laughing so hard. Just a bit more arrogance there. U.S.Arse (ha ha that was so funny i am proud) and that is sarcasm for you mr, incase i confuse you