OCC Fortnight Competition #4 -- Results and Logs

[vik]

Well, gents ... I just emailed Paul the files so that he can post them to his web page.

It was my first attempt at making a map for others. I tried to make contact with other Civs a little easier, and I also wanted to have a little control over barb activity.

The important thing is to load both files into your \mps\civ2 directorty (default) or where-ever you installed your game. One file is the .SCN file (the actual scenario), and the other file has no extention but is a text file that should (hopefully) pop up when you start the scenario to tell you about the scenario.

Please have fun and let me know if you find any bugs or oddities.

thanks

[Paul]

http://members.home.nl/paulvdb/occ4fnc.zip contains the scn and text file of vik's scenario. Unzip into your Civ2 folder, start scenario occ4fnc.scn and play as the Rebels. The map has some nice city sites, no huts, two Settlers, some extra units and you can see all the other civ's capitols and the barbarian city. Have fun.
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited May 06, 2000).]

[Scouse Gits]

Thanks both - I'm in - always ready to make a fool of myself
[edit] The symbol above is supposed to be two government agents escorting me off the premises ... [/edit]
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited March 02, 2000).]

[Tom DeMille]

Just downloaded and started the scenario without any trouble (v242). With what looks like 4 good city sites, I think I'll ponder over starting location for most of the morning. Should be a fun game!

[crowatbitemedotcom]

SG - I don't think gummint agents are allowed to smile.

Okay I'm going to try downloading this game and my goal is: do not come in last. Sorry SG .


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Will everyone stop bloody quoting everyone else in their signature damnit. - Graag

[Tom DeMille]

A tricks/cheats question: I've just built 3 caravans in a row (I rush bought them 1 per turn), and they're all hides. It still shows hides as an available resource, which would indicate I could keep building more. This seems like cheating to me, so I'm going to stop building caravans for a while. I read about this phenomenon at some point in another thread. Any comments on its application to OCC?

[vik]

No problem, Sten -- you're the one that got me started.

All I'd like to know is if the scenario text-box popped up properly for you guys. I spent quite a few minutes trying to get that one to work correctly.

[Tom DeMille]

It popped up fine for me in v242.
(edited to removed a spoiler (sorry vik)

[This message has been edited by Tom DeMille (edited March 02, 2000).]

[vik]

tom,

i sent you an email to your "hotlamp" account to try to answer your question.

(edited to say "thanks, tom -- no problem")
[This message has been edited by vik (edited March 02, 2000).]

[Smash]

Tom D--I've seen that many times.What I've also seen is if you send those caravans you only get 1 route.Even if you send them to different cities.Try it and see what happens with trade routes

Nice touch, (edited after an urgent message from Inner Mongolia).
The pop-up text worked just fine (another nice touch).
Btw, (and another edit) before AC?

Guess it doesn't make much sense any more
[This message has been edited by Huey (edited March 02, 2000).]

[Aurelius]

Another fun position.

AU--still a surprise
[This message has been edited by Aurelius (edited March 02, 2000).]

[vik]

huey,

i sent you the same email message i sent tom.

all else: please feel free to email me with any specific questions you have. If possible, I'd prefer you not post specifics here initially, because there are some, ahem, "virgin" eyes that haven't seen it yet -- I wouldn't want to ruin their surprise.

if you've loaded it, you probably know what i mean.

thanks -- vik

[Tom DeMille]

Well Vik, I guess the lid is off the scenario's surprise.

Smash, I'm happy to say that my three hides caravans each formed a trade route (different cities of course). I would have s*** bricks if I had got only one trade route out of them. I ended up holding off building more caravans until after I had built Shakespeare's Theatre, so I figure that I didn't end up using the cheat.

[Sten Sture]

Thank god someone else did the map (thanks vik!) The two times I've done the map I've finished last by a significant margin.

I have to go back and look at the casualty list from that last fiasco!

[Smash]

Great job vik.The intro worked fine for my MAC.This one has 3 0r 4 different games in it.

TD-oh ok.I thought you meant you built 3 hides in the same city.I've seen this a few times in OCC and thought I could gain something by building 2 hides caravans.But delivering both only netted me one route.So I guess a city can only get 1 route per commodidity produced.I havn't noticed if you can get 2 hides routes by outside delivery

[Scouse Gits]

vik - yes text works fine - looks to be a seriously fun challenge - still haven't determined my best bet starting strategy (see below)

crow - This time round I have a single aim - beat you!!! - I know I shall never get close to Paul & Tom - see you at AC


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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Tom DeMille]

First off, a very enjoyable game. Hats off Vik, good job.

Since I'm the first to finish...

WARNING, log to follow:

.

.

.

No Peaking

.

.

.

- After a careful analysis of the various city sites, I chose the one to the south west (2 whale, 1 wine, 1 silk). I figure the 2 gold site would have created more trade in the later stages of the game, but the 2 whales would be far better in the early game. Also, the 2 whale site was the most isolated.

- The city of Mentos basically left me alone (and I left it alone too). I sent out all my caravans via trireme, so didn't have to contend with the barb presence.

- After getting Mobile Warfare from me, the Mongols rolled over Mentos with tanks a few years before my spaceship launch. Too bad, I had been looking forward to some barbarian clobbering.

- I finally held back on building my factory etc. until I had completed all land improvements. Definitely the way to go. Here's a useful tip: 33 shields without any production improvements will yield 82 shields with factory/power plant/ocean platform/manufacturing plant (250% bonus). I made sure my land improvements would yield just the right amount of production (instead of, say, 78 production )

First, the highlights for Paul's table:

-2050 switched to Monarchy
-2050 Collosus
-975 Trade
-850 1st caravan
-800 Construction
-775 2nd caravan
-725 3rd caravan
-625 switched to Republic
-400 size 12
-200 Copernicus' Observatory
-100 Shakespeare's Theatre
160 Sanitation
320 Sir Isaac Newton's College
360 size 21
380 switched to Democracy
660 Refrigeration
860 Darwin's Voyage
940 Automobile
1280 Computers
1520 Space Flight
1540 Appolo Program
1756 Launch
1771 Arrival at AC

Ok, here's the full log:

v242, Deity
3800 BC - peace with Japanese
3750 BC - found Kingston (2 whale, 1 wine, 1 silk)
3550 BC - built warrior
3500 BC - Alphabet, alliance with Japanese
3450 BC - peace with Chinese
3400 BC - peace with English
3350 BC - built warrior
3200 BC - Bronze Working (Mongols), alliance with Mongols, alliance with English
2850 BC - Code of Laws, Ceremonial Burial (Mongols), alliance with Chinese
2700 BC - 50 gold (Aztecs), alliance with Aztecs
2450 BC - alliance with French (Allied with all AIs)
2100 BC - Monarchy, the rebels are revolting
Japanese - Horseback Riding, 50 gold
French - Masonry, Pottery, Warrior Code
Egyptians - Writing
Chinese - Mysticism, 75 gold
English - Map Making, 50 gold
Mongols - 100 gold
2050 BC - switched to Monarchy, built Colossus, disband warrior
2000 BC - built library
1950 BC - share maps with all Ais
1900 BC - 100 gold (Chinese)
1850 BC - 50 gold (French)
1700 BC - 50 gold (Japanese)
1650 BC - built trireme
1400 BC - Currency, 150 gold (barbarian)
1350 BC - built marketplace
1300 BC - 50 gold (Japanese, Aztecs, Chinese, English, Mongols), 150 gold (French)
975 BC - Trade, Literacy (Chinese), 50 gold (Chinese, Japanese, French), built trireme, disband explorer
950 BC - built hides caravan, disband warrior
925 BC - built hides caravan
900 BC - built hides caravan
850 BC - 104 gold (1st caravan - Hides to Orleans)
850 BC - 100 gold (French, Japanese), 50 gold (Aztecs, Chinese)
825 BC - 150 gold (barbarian)
800 BC - Philosophy, (Construction)
775 BC - 58 gold (2nd caravan - Hides to Paris)
725 BC - 120 gold (3rd caravan - Hides to Lyons)
675 BC - The Republic, begin revolution, begin WLTKD (size is 4)
650 BC - Iron Working (French), 50 gold (Japanese, French, Chinese, English), 100 gold (Aztecs)
625 BC - switched to Republic, disband both triremes
600 BC - begin WLTCD (size 4)
525 BC - 100 gold (Aztecs), 50 gold (Chinese)
400 BC - Mathematics, ending WLTCD (size now 12)
400 BC - Seafaring (French), 50 gold (French, Chinese), 100 gold (Japanese)
350 BC - 150 gold (barbarian)
225 BC - Astronomy, 50 gold (Aztecs, Chinese)
200 BC - built Copernicus' Observatory
125 BC - Medicine, sold colosseum, 50 gold (Aztecs)
100 BC - built Shakespeare's Theatre
50 BC - built copper caravan
25 BC - University, Bridge Building (French), Polytheism (Chinese)
25 BC - 100 gold (French, Japanese), 50 gold (Chinese)
1 AD - built University
40 AD - The Wheel, built coal caravan, 50 gold (Aztecs)
80 AD - built trireme, 100 gold (Japanese), 50 gold (chinese)
100 AD - Engineering
120 AD - finally sold temple (woops)
140 AD - 50 gold (Aztecs)
160 AD - Sanitation
180 AD - built sewer system, begin WLTCD (size is 12), 50 gold (Japanese, Chinese)
240 AD - Theory of Gravity, 50 gold (Aztecs)
300 AD - Banking, Navigation (French), 100 gold (Japanese)
320 AD - built Sir Isaac Newton's College
320 AD - 258 gold (copper caravan to Beijing), 141 gold (coal caravan to Shanghai)
340 AD - Invention, 100 gold (French)
360 AD - built Bank, ending WLTCD (size now 21)
380 AD - Democracy, revolution, switched to Democracy
380 AD - 100 gold (French), 50 gold (Aztecs)
400 AD - built silk caravan
420 AD - Economics
(note: at this point my land is pretty much improved, so I've decided to skip Explosives (ie engineers) for now and go straight for Refrigeration)
440 AD - built Stock Exchange
460 AD - Physics
480 AD - built coal caravan
500 AD - Magnetism
520 AD - built wool caravan
540 AD - Gunpowder
580 AD - Metallurgy, 100 gold (Aztecs), 50 gold (Chinese)
620 AD - Electricity, Chemistry (French)
660 AD - Refrigeration
680 AD - built SuperMarket
700 AD - Explosives, 50 gold (Aztecs)
720 AD - built Engineer
740 AD - Steam Engine
760 AD - built Engineer
780 AD - Railroad, 50 gold (Aztecs)
820 AD - Industrialization
- 97 gold (wool caravan to Tenochtitlan)
- 228 gold (coal caravan to Beijing)
- 280 gold (silk caravan to Canton)
840 AD - The Corporation
860 AD - built Darwin's Voyage, Refining, Combustion, disband trireme (outside city), 100 gold (English)
880 AD - Steel
900 AD - built dye freight, begin WLTPD (size is 19)
940 AD - Automobile, Conscription (Chinese)
960 AD - built Superhighway, 100 gold (Aztecs), 200 gold (English)
980 AD - Feudalism
1000 AD - ending WLTPD (size now 24), built oil freight
1020 AD - Chivalry, sell Sewer System
1040 AD - sell Aqueduct
1060 AD - Leadership, built gold freight
1100 AD - Tactics, 100 gold (Aztecs), 150 gold (English)
1120 AD - 154 gold (oil freight to Mentos)
1140 AD - Electronics
1180 AD - Machine Tools
1200 AD - 50 gold (Aztecs)
1220 AD - Miniturization
1240 AD - 50 gold (Aztecs, Chinese)
1260 AD - Mass Production
1280 AD - Communism (Aztecs), Computers (Chinese)
1300 AD - built Research Lab, disband horseman
1320 AD - Mobile Warfare, built Factory, disband phalanx, 392 gold (silk freight to Kyoto)
1340 AD - Robotics, built Power Plant, 50 gold (English)
1360 AD - built Offshore Platform
1380 AD - Flight, built oil freight, 100 gold (Chinese)
1400 AD - built wool caravan
1420 AD - Radio
1460 AD - Advanced Flight
1480 AD - built Manufacturing Plant (production is now 80)
1500 AD - Rocketry
1520 AD - Space Flight
1530 AD - 88 gold (gold Freight to Osaka)
1540 AD - Appollo Program
1550 AD - Plastics, Atomic Theory (French)
1580 AD - Nuclear Fission
1590 AD - Mongols destroy Mentos
1610 AD - Nuclear Power
- 103 gold (wool freight to Kyoto)
- 360 gold (oil freight to Kyoto)
1630 AD - Laser
1660 AD - SuperConductor
1690 AD - Fusion Power
1730 AD - sell University
1740 AD - sell Research Lab
1756 AD - Launch (arrival in 1771)
build a bunch of tanks, etc.
1759 AD - Stealth
1771 AD - Arrival at AC Tom the Terrible, score 314, 40%

[Hoss]

I played v2.42 at deity.
The stats for a table are:
Monarchy -1650
Republic -725
Democracy +700

Construction: -1550
Trade -475
Sanitation 1 AD
Refrigeration 960
Automobile 1280
Computers 1500
Space Flight 1710

Colossus –2350
Copernicus –175
Shakespeare 1AD
Newton 380
Darwin 640
Apollo 1720

From Trade Routes 2759g
From Barbarians 450g
From Tribute 1725g

Size 12 –525
Size 21 260
Launch 1792
Landed 1807

I founded my city at the 2 whale, 1 grape, 1 silk site. I irrigated and put roads on all the flat surface and mined the hills. I transformed the mountain into a hill and mined that also. Near the end I turned one of the river squares into a forest so that I had 83 shields without a manufacturing plant. Of course, one square was almost always covered by pollution, but my engineer and settler could clear that up in 1 ½ turns. I was also helped by the building of mass transit, though that was a mistake. I had hoped that computers would come before I built it and I could switch over to the research lab, but both the improvement and the tech were done on the same turn. Another big mistake was forgetting to sell the sewer system and aqueduct until the very end when I was scrambling to get the last module built in one turn.

I managed to get alliances with everyone but the French, though it took awhile for the Chinese to come along. I got a considerable amount of techs from them (19 of my first 25 were from trades with other civs), and early on this slowed my science rate considerably. I just figured that it was better to get and keep allies than to get a specific tech a turn or two earlier. I managed to keep all of the alliances until the end of the game, though it got dicey at the end when the Mongols demanded Advanced Flight (which I gave) then stole plastics, Fusion, and superconductor all in one turn. By then, though, I was ready to launch. They never even began building.

As far as the Barbarian city went, they were really no problem for me. They just seemed to bother the Mongols and Chinese. Everyone else was at war with one another off and on. Until the last few turns when the Mongols sent their dips in, the only things coming into my city was one Chinese explorer in the 1500s and the occasional barbarian landing north of the city.

3800 Peace With Japanese
3750 Founded City
3550 Warrior
3500 Bronze Working
3450 Peace With Mongols
3400 Peace With English
3350 Peace With Chinese
3300 Alliance With Japanese
Ceremonial Burial English
Alliance With English
Horseback Riding Mongols
Alliance With Mongols
3150 Alphabet English
3100 Code of Laws, Pottery,
Alliance with Aztecs
2850 Peace With French
2450 Horseman killed by Barbs
2400 50g Japanese
50g French
25g Aztecs
100g Chinese
Map Making, Warrior Code English
50g English
50g Mongols
2350 Colossus
2150 Writing Aztecs
2100 Temple
1700 Monarchy
1650 Became Monarchy
Masonry Chinese
Mysticism Chinese
100g Chinese
Alliance With Chinese
The Wheel English
50g English
50g Japanese
1550 Construction French
Currency French
100g French
1500 Library
1400 Market Place
1150 100g Aztecs
1100 Literacy Aztecs
950 Collosseum
750 Philosophy;Republic
725 Became Republic
Engineering Mongols
100g Mongols
150g Chinese
50g English
700 Aqueduct
600 Diplomat
575 Disband Warrior
550 Diplomat
525 Size 12 City
500 Diplomat
475 Trade
Mathematics Chinese
50g Chinese
Seafaring Mongols
450 150g Barb King
275 Astronomy Chinese
175 Copernicus
Medicine
100 100g Chinese
Iron Working English
25 Sell Collosseum
1AD Shakespeare
Sanitation
Sell Temple
40 Sewer System
60 162g for Beads Chinese
100 Harbor
Feudalism English
50g Mongols
150g Chinese
140 University Tech
260 Size 21 City
280 Theory of Gravity
340 Invention Mongols
360 264g for Hides Chinese
380 Bridge Building
Newton's College
420 Navigation English
440 Banking
460 University Building
500 Physics
520 Bank
540 254g for Copper English
560 Steam Engine
620 Railroad
100g Chinese
50g Aztecs
50g English
640 Darwin's Voyage
Democracy
Gunpowder
700 Became Democracy
720 Metallurgy Chinese
740 Chemistry
760 Economics Japanese
Magnitism Japanese
780 Explosives
840 Industrialization
860 Stock Exchange
58g for wool (not demanded)Chinese
900 Electricity
54g for coal (not demanded)Japanese
960 Refrigeration
84g for silk (not demanded)Japanese
980 Supermarket
1020 Engineer
The Corporation
1040 Chivalry Mongols
50g English
50g Chinese
1060 150g Barb King
1080 Refining
Polytheism French
1100 Leadership English
1140 Steel
128g for Oil (not demanded)Aztecs
1220 Combustion
1260 Conscription Japanese
1280 Automobile
1300 Superhighways
169g for Oil (not demanded)French
1320 Machine Tools
738g for Silk Chinese
1360 Electronics
Factory
First Pollution
1380 Hydro Plant
Tactics Chinese
50g Chinese
1400 Minituarization
1420 848g for Gold Chinese
1440 Offshore Platform
Mass Production
1500 Mass Transit
Computers
1520 Research Lab
1530 Atomic Theory
1560 Nuclear Fission
1590 Flight
1620 Radio
1650 Advanced Flight
1680 Rocketry
1710 Space Flight
1720 Apollo Program
150g Barb King
1750 Plastics (SS 3-0-0)
1758 Nuclear Power (SS 3-4-0)
1762 Last Component
1766 The Laser (SS 5-6-0)
1774 Monotheism Chinese
Superconductor (SS 9-6-0)
1784 Fusion Power (SS 12-6-2)
Sell Sewer System
1786 Sell Research Lab
1788 Sell Aqueduct
1790 Build last Module (SS 14-6-3)
1792 Launch
1807 Land

[CrispyCritter]

I decided to continue my isolationist ways, and see how far I could push no contact.
(Making a virtue out of necessity -- I play MGE and relations with AI's are so-o-o-o unstable and difficult). So I played with the additional rules of:

No non-food caravans
No trading with AI's of any kind.
No asking of tribute.
No diplo/spy.

I basically just stayed in my little corner (the two whales,wine,silk one) for the game, and had to discover every tech myself.

A 1942 spaceship landing. I was happy with the game; I don't think I lost more than 4-5 turns due to blunders, which is good for me!
(Turns lost due to bad strategy are harder to judge!)

I went direct to Republic, which is the first time I've tried that. With 2 whales and starting units, I thought disorder and reduced production wouldn't be as much of a problem. It will be interesting seeing what folks did here. (I discovered monarchy in 1842AD!)

Until after the game was over, I hadn't realized what a huge lead in technology I had. Quite a bit different from some of the other OCC games I've played. There also seemed to be much larger portions of the game where I had nothing to build (I had well over 30 food caravans stacked up at times). Did not trading techs with the AI's really hold them back that much???

Not much terraforming. The empty forest and the mountain both became grasslands eventually; I still had production of 90 (82 after engineers, alpine troops and a fighter).

Here's my log. It shows all units and improvements built with the exception of the food caravans. I sold my sewer system and aquaduct later than I should have, but I don't remember when.

3750 city founded
3500 ceremonial burial
3150 temple
3050 alphabet
2600? barracks
2500 writing
2400 diplomat
1950 codeoflaw
1450 literacy
950 republic, barb leader
925 revolution succeeded, barb leader
800 bronze working,
775 colossus, barb leader
675 mysticism
650 WLC(4)
550 end WLC(7), philosophy, masonry
450 mathematics
300 astronomy
150 Copernicus
125 university(adv)
25 theory of gravity
ad20 barb leader
40 university
60 currency
80 marketplace
120 construction
180 trade
200 aquaduct
240 medicine
300 pottery
500 mapmaking
580 shakespeare
600 WLC(7)
640 seafaring (didn't need harbor/food, so this was mistake)
680 end WLC(12)
760 banking
860 horseback riding
960 the wheel
980 Isaac Newton
1020 engineering
1060 harbor
1100 sanitation
1120 sewer system, WCL(12)
1180 Invention
1260 Democracy, Bank
1320 food caravan, end WLC(21), revolution
1360 Chinese found me with a caravan! end revolution
1380 Warrior code!
1440 iron working
1500 bridge building
1530 navigation
1560 Physics
1590 Steam Engine
1620 railroad
1630 Darwin, gunpowder, chemistry
1650 explosives
1680 metallurgy
1710 magnetism
1730? engineer
1740 electricity
1752 barb leader
1754 refrigeration,city walls(?)
1762 economics
1770 Industrialization, engineer
1778 Corporation
1784 WLP(19)
1786 another Chinese caravan, stock exchange
1788 electronics
1796 steel
1800 end WLP(24) (delayed due to farm and pollution)
1804 refining, factory
1810 hydroplant
1812 combustion, diplomat
1818 automobile. stock exhange sold when ran out of money
1826 mass production, superhighways
1828 lost two units to Chinese
1836 conscription, mass transit
1842 monarchy! stock exchange
1846 rifleman
1848 feudalism rifleman
1852 chivalry, lost stock exchange again!
1855 leadership
1856 stock exchange
1859 tactics
1860 French caravan (my 3rd)
1862 machine tools
1865 miniturization
1867 offshore platform
1868 computers
1870 research lab
1871 mobile warfare
1872 barracks
1873 alpine troops
1874 robotics,alpine troops
1877 atomic theory
1880 nuclear fission
1882 alpine troop
1883 nuclear power
1886 laser
1889 flight
1893 radio
1896 adv flight
1899 rocketry,sdi defense
1902 space flight
1903 Apollo
1906 plastics
1911 superconductor
1916 fusion power
1924 stealth
1927 spaceship 15-3-3-1-1-1 landing 1942
1928 steath fighter
1930 FutureTech 1
1931 recycling center, capitalization
1933 SAM, FT 2
1936 FT 3
1939 FT 4
1942 spaceship landing

[crowatbitemedotcom]

SG - I see the gauntlet has been thrown!

May the best civver win!

Do we need to choose seconds or anything like that or is that too old fashioned?

Dopey me - I was going to start last night but left the disk at work. I hope to take less than the full two weeks this time

------------------
Will everyone stop bloody quoting everyone else in their signature damnit. - Graag

[redbaron]

AC 1874

Monarchy -1850
Republic -525
Democracy 520

Colossus -2100
Copernicus 1
Shakespeare 340
Newton 660
Darwin 1560
Apollo 1812

1st Route -450
2nd Route -250
3rd Route -75

Size 12 -325
Size 21 1380
Max Size 23 1420

v2.42 Deity

Not a particularly outstanding effort. I was spectacularly unsuccessful in getting the AI to form alliances even when their attitude was worshipful. On the other hand, they and the barbarians left me pretty much alone.
I started off sending caravans out by sea to avoid interference.


3750 BC Penge founded (2 whales, silk, wine)
3700 BC Treaty with Chinese
3550 BC Warriors
Treaty with English
Bronze Working
3500 BC Exchange BW for Masonry with Chinese
3350 BC Warriors.
Disband all warriors
3300 BC Exchange BW for Ceremonial Burial with English
Exchange Masonry for Alphabet with English
Alliance with English
Exchange BW for Horseback Riding with Japanese
Treaty with Japanese
Treaty with Mongols
3150 BC Give Alphabet to Chinese
3100 BC Give Alphabet, Masonry to Mongols
Give CB, Alphabet, Masonry to Japanese
3050 BC Exchange Masonry for Map Making with Aztecs
Exchange CB for Code of Laws with Aztecs
Exchange Bw for Pottery with Aztecs
Alliance with Aztecs
Give Map Making to Japanese, Chinese, Mongols
Share maps with Japanese, Chinese
2950 BC Give Map Making to English
2900 BC Give Pottery to Japanese,Chinese, Mongols
Share maps with English, Aztecs
2800 BC Exchange Pottery for Writing with French
Give Map Making to French
Give Masonry to French
Share maps with French
Receive Currency from English
2750 BC Share maps with English
2650 BC Share maps with Japanese, Chinese, English
2550 BC 25 Gold from Aztecs
Give Pottery to English
2350 BC Give Code of Laws to Mongols
2250 BC Give Code of Laws, Writing to English
2100 BC 50 Gold from Aztecs
Give Horseback Riding to English
50 Gold from English
Give Currency to Chinese
Give Code of Laws to French
Colossus
2000 BC Share maps with Aztecs
1950 BC Monarchy from Aztecs. Revolution
1850 BC Monarchy established
1800 BC Give Monarchy to English
1650 BC Alliance with English ends
1550 BC Library
1500 BC Give Writing to Aztecs
50 Gold from Aztecs
Trade
1450 BC Exchange Trade for Seafaring with Chinese
Give Trade to Aztecs
Give Seafaring to Japanese
1400 BC Give Trade to English
Give Seafaring to Mongols
1350 BC Give Trade to French
Share maps with Chinese
Give Seafaring to Aztecs
1300 BC Marketplace
1250 BC Give Currency to Aztecs
1100 BC Give Horseback Riding to Aztecs
Exchange Writing for Construction with Chinese
975 BC Exchange Construction for Literacy with French
950 BC Give Literacy to Aztecs
50 Gold from Aztecs
925 BC Temple
900 BC Pop 5
875 BC Mysticism
775 BC Share maps with Aztecs
750 BC Trireme
600 BC Exchange Mysticism for Republic with Aztecs. Revolution
50 Gold from Aztecs
550 BC Give Republic, Seafaring to French
Alliance with French
200 Gold from French
525 BC Republic established
Colosseum
500 BC WLTCD Pop 5
475 BC Philosophy
Mathematics
450 BC Hide Route to Lyons (demanded) 168 Gold
Pop 8
425 BC Aqueduct
400 BC 50 Gold from Aztecs
325 BC Pop 12
300 BC WLTCD ends
275 BC Astronomy
250 BC Silk Route to Canton 128 Gold
225 BC 25 Gold from French
100 BC Medicine
75 BC Beads Route to Bejing (Demanded) 308 Gold
Silver Route to Tenochtitlan 186 Gold
50 BC University (advance)
25 BC 50 Gold from Aztecs
1 AD Copernicus
60 AD Wheel
100 AD Exchange Philosophy for Banking with Aztecs
100 Gold from Aztecs
140 AD Engineering
160 AD Copper Route to Shanghai (Demanded) 456 Gold
180 AD Sanitation
200 AD WLTCD Pop 12
Sewer System
240 AD Alliance with Aztecs ends
Harbour
WLTCD ends Pop 13
260 AD Gold Route to Tenochtitlan 230 Gold
Theory of Gravity
340 AD Sell Colosseum
Shakespeare
WLTCD Pop 13
360 AD Sell Temple
Invention
460 AD Democracy. Revolution
520 AD Democracy established
620 AD WLTPD ends Pop 21
Economics
640 AD Alliance with Chinese
660 AD Newton
680 AD Chemistry
740 AD Navigation
780 AD University
800 AD Warrior Code
840 AD Iron Working
860 AD Bank
880 AD Gunpowder
920 AD Explosives
960 AD Metallurgy
980 AD 100 Gold from Chinese
Give Sanitation to Aztecs
Stock Exchange
1020 AD Physics
Engineers
1080 AD Magnetism
1140 AD Electricity
1200 AD Refrigeration
1240 AD Supermarket
1260 AD Bridge Building
1280 AD 50 Gold from Chinese
1320 AD WLTPD Pop 19
1340 AD Steam Engine
1380 AD Pop 21
1420 AD WLTPD ends Pop 23
Railroad
1440 AD Sell Sewer System
1460 AD Wool route to Canton 58 Gold
1480 AD Industrialisation
1520 AD Sell Aqueduct
Corporation
1550 AD Refining
1560 AD Darwin
Combustion
Steel
1570 AD Share maps with Chinese
25 Gold from Chinese
1580 AD Coal Route to Beijing 90 Gold
1590 AD Automobile
1600 AD Sik Route to Xinjian 200 Gold
Superhighways
1610 AD Electronics
1640 AD Mass Production
Mentos destroyed by Japanese
1660 AD Dye Route to Texcoco (Demanded) 324 Gold
1670 AD Conscription
1700 AD Feudalism
1730 AD Factory
Chivalry
1750 AD Hydro Plant
1752 AD Leadership
1758 AD Tactics
1764 AD Machine Tools
1770 AD Alliance with French ends
Miniaturisation
100 Gold from Chinese
1772 AD Coal Route to Beijing (Demanded) 555 Gold
1774 AD Offshore Platform
Computers
1776 AD Wool Route to Shanghai 268 Gold
Disband Trireme
Research Lab
1778 AD Mobile Warfare
1780 AD Barracks
1782 AD Robotics
Alpine Troops
1786 AD Manufacturing Plant
Flight
1788 AD Armour
1790 AD Armour
1792 AD Copper Route to Nara (Demanded) 134 Gold
Radio
Armour
1798 AD Advanced Flight
Alliance with Chinese ends
1804 AD Rocketry
1806 AD Coal Route to Xinjian (Demanded) 227 Gold
1808 AD Sneak attack by Japanese
1810 AD Space Flight
1812 AD Apollo
1814 AD Oil Route to Nanking 89 Gold
1816 AD Plastics
1822 AD Atomic Theory
1828 AD Nuclear Fission
1834 AD Nuclear Power
1840 AD Laser
1842 AD 15 Structurals
1846 AD Superconductor
1851 AD Fusion Power
1854 AD 6 Components
1858 AD Launch ETA 18874
1862 AD Stealth
1866 AD Treaty with Japanese
Recycling
1868 AD Recycling Centre
1870 AD Mass Transit
1871 AD Environmentalism
1874 AD AC

Gvts:
Monarchy: 2450BC
Republic: 725BC
Democracy: 25BC

Wonders:
Colossus: 2450BC
Cops'Obs: 525BC
Shakes': 425BC
Newtons': 220AD
Darwin: 840AD
Apollo: 1510AD

Techs:
Trade: 1050BC
Construction: 675BC
Sanitation: 80AD
Refrigeration: 540AD
Automobile: 840AD
Computers: 1220AD
Space Flight: 1500AD

1st trade: 950BC
2nd trade: 675BC
3rd trade: 600BC

Size 12: 450BC
Size 21: 300AD
Size 24: 1200AD

Arrival AC: 1779

It seems that we all picked the same city site. The AI pretty much left me alone, at one point I was allied with all of them. Later both the French and the Mongols declared war but they didn't bother me.
Comparing my log with Toms' it's obvious I still have trouble to get my ship launched in the least number of turns, due to lack of food caravans and cash. Lost some turns there.
While building my ship I looked how to take Mentos, only to discover it was already taken by the Japanese.

Well, here's the full story:

3750: Elvis founds Burger King
3700: Chinese: peace, trib Masonry
3550: English: allied, Masonry X Alphabet, gift Cer Burial
Japanese: peace, gave CerBurial, Alpha and Masonry
3250: Chinese: gave Alpha and CerBurial, allied
3050: Azteks: Masonry X LawCode, allied
2850: French: gave Alpha, Masonry and LawCode, allied
2650: $150 Barb
2550: Monarchy, revolution
English: LawCode X MapMaking, gave Monarchy, $50
French: Monarchy X Pottery, gave MapMaking, share maps
Azteks: Monarchy X Bronze, gave MapMaking, share maps, $25
Chinese: Monarchy X Writing, gave MapMaking, Bronze and LawCode, share maps, $50
Japanese: MapMaking X Horseback, gave Bronze, Pottery, Monarchy, LawCode, allied, share maps, $50
2450: Switch to Monarchy, Colossus
2300: Mongols: MapMaking X Wheel, CerBurial X WarriorCode, gave Pottery, Monarchy, Masonry, Alpha, Writing and LawCode, share maps, allied, $50
Japanese: gave wheel
French: Writing X Mysticism, gave Bronze, Wheel, WarCode, Horseback, share maps, $50
Azteks: gave Writing, Mysticism, Wheel, WarCode, Horseback, share maps, $25
Chinese: gave Mysticism, Wheel, WarCode, Horseback, share maps, $50
English: gave Writing, Wheel, WarCode, Pottery, Mysticism, Horseback, share maps
2250: Library
2050: Japanese: gave WarCode, Mysticism, Writing, share maps, $25
French, Azteks, Chinese, English: $50
1800: Japanese: $25
French, Chinese: $50
1700: Currency
1650: Market Place
1550: Japanese, French, English: gave Currency, $50
Azteks: gave currency
Mongols: gave Currency, Mysticism, $100
1400: Trireme
1300: Japanese: $50
Azteks: $150
1050: Trade
French: Trade X Literature, $200
Mongols, English: gave Lit, Trade, $50
Japanese: gave Lit, Trade
Azteks, Chinese: gave Lit
1000: Hides Caravan
French: share maps
Japanese: $50
Azteks: gave Trade, $50
Chinese: gave Trade
950: Hides route Orleans, $96
Silver Caravan
900: Beads Caravan
French, Chinese: $50
English: gift Math
Mongols: gave Math, $50
825: Silk Caravan
800: $150 Barb
775: French: Math X Republic, $50
Japanese, Azteks: gave Republic
Chinese: gave Republic, $100
English: gave Republic, $50
Mongols: gave Republic, alliance cancelled
Revolution
750: Chinese: gave Republic, share maps
725: Switch to Republic
675: Japanese: $50
Beads Paris: $156
Construction, WLTCD size 4
650: Azteks: $50
Chinese, English: gave Construction, $50
600: Copper caravan, Silver Rheims: $300
575: Astronomy
550: Aquaduct
525: Copernicus Observatory
500: French discover Philosophy
French: Constr X Philosophy, Astro X Iron, $25
Japanese: gave Iron
Azteks: gave Philo
Chinese: gave Philo, $50
475: Sold Colosseum
450: Medicine, end WLTCD size 12, sold Temple
425: Shakespeare's Theatre
350: Gold caravan
University
Japanese, Azteks: gave Constr
English: gave Iron, alliance canceled
French: alliance canceled
325: Copper Beijing $376
300: University, Engineering
225: Banking
200: Coal caravan
175: Japanese,Azteks, Chinese: gave all
150: Invention
75: Bank
50: Democracy, revolution
25: Democracy
Azteks $100, Mongols war
Silk Beijing $94, Gold Beijing $94
1AD
20: Seafaring
60: Harbor
80: Sanitation
Japanese, Azteks: gave all
Chinese: Inv X Bridge, gave all, $100
English: gave all
100: Sewer, WLTPD (12)
120: disband trireme
160: Theory of Gravity
French: war
Copper Paris $168, Coal Paris $84
180: English, Chinese: gave Gravity, share maps
Japanese, Azteks: gave Bridge, share maps
200: Navigation
Japanese, Azteks: gave Gravity
Chinese: $100
220: Newton's College
260: Chemistry
300: Gunpowder
End WLTPD (21)
340: Explosives
380: Physics, Engineer
Chinese $50
420: Magnetism, Engineer
460: Metallurgy
Japanese: gave all, alliance cancelled
English: gave all, allied, $100
Azteks: gave all
Chinese: gave all, $100
480: Galleon
520: Silk caravan
540: Refrigeration
560: Wool caravan
580: Steam Engine
620: Economics
Japanese, English: gave steam
Azteks, Chinese: gave all, $100
660: Railroad
Chinese: $100
700: Industrialization
720: Stock exchange
740: Corporation
760: Dye caravan, Wool Beijing $92
780: Refining
Japanese: gave all, share maps
Chinese: gave all
English: gave all, $75
Azteks: gave all, $100
820: Combustion
840: Darwin, Steel, Automobile
Silk Canton $254
880: Feudalism, Superhighway
920: Chivalry, Silk caravan
960: Leadership, Oil caravan
Chinese: Auto X Conscription, gave all, $50
Japanese: gave all, share maps
Azteks, English: gave all, $50
1000: Tactics
1020: Supermarket
1040: Electronics
1060: WLTPD (19)
1100: Machine Tools
1120: Dye Tenochtitlan $504, Oil Tenochtitlan $252
1140: Miniaturization, Silk caravan
Japanese, Azteks: gave all
Chinese, English: gave all, $50
1180: Mass Production, Gold caravan
1200: End WLTPD (24), sold Sewer
1220: Silk caravan destroyed by Barbs
Computers
1240: Research Lab
1260: Mobile War
1280: Factory, Gold Orleans $434
1300: Robotics
1320: Hydro Plant
1340: Flight
1360: Off Shore Platform
1380: Radio
1400: Manifacturing Plant
1420: Advanced Flight
1460: Rocketry
1500: Space Flight
1510: Apollo
1520: Plastics
1570: Athomic Theory
1620: Nuclear Fission
Chinese: gave SpaceFlight, $100
Mentos taken by Japanese
1680: Laser
1730: Superconductor
1758: Fusion Power
Chinese: gave Superconductor, $150
1764: Launch
1766-1776: Stealth, communism, Guerrilla,Labor Union
1779: Landing on AC!
___________________
Save the 's

[Scouse Gits]

1871 landing from [wrong] 3 whale site
OK - to optimise my prospects (of beating Crow) I'm going for the suboptimum three whale site. Grand Plan - such as it is - cower behind my impenetrable mountain fastness using Mentos as a source of contemporary units (do Barbars have Settlers? I've never seen one, but if they do - it's mine!). Hopefully someone else will eliminate Mentos for me, failing that post launch reduce it to radioactive bed-rock.

004 : 3800 - discover I have committed my explorer to an isthmus!
006 : 3700 - Liverpool founded
011 : 3450 - Bronze Working
014 : 3300 - meet and ally with Japanese am gifted Horseback Riding
016 : 3200 - meet Chinese peace, Masonry
018 : 3100 - Japanese Ceremonial Burial
023 : 2850 - Japanese 25g
024 : 2800 - London falls to the Barbars
026 : 2700 - French Alliance, Alphabet, Writing, 50g; Chinese Currency; Japanese 25g
027 : 2650 - English civ destroyed by Barbarians
029 : 2550 - Japanese 25g; French no maps
032 : 2400 - Mongols Peace, Map Making, 50g; Japanese 50g; Aztecs Alliance, Code of Laws, Pottery, 50g
034 : 2300 - French 25g
038 : 2100 - COLOSSUS; French 25g
040 : 2000 - French 25g; Chinese maps
042 : 1900 - Japanese 50g; Chinese CONSTRUCTION
044 : 1800 - Library; Aztecs 25g; French 50g
046 : 1700 - nothing from the allies
049 : 1550 - Temple, MONARCHY, Revolution; Japanese 50g; Mongols Alliance
050 : 1500 - Barbars take Teotihuacam
051 : 1450 - Monarchy established
052 : 1400 - French cancel alliance
053 : 1350 - Marketplace
055 : 1250 - Barbar landing 2 Archers
056 : 1200 - Barbar wastes self against Liverpool's defences
057 : 1150 - Barbar Archer bought off before he pillaged irrigation
058 : 1100 - no-one wants to give me anything
060 : 1000 - Japanese cancel alliance after taking Code of Laws !!! Chinese Literacy
063 : 0925 - Chinese share maps - Barbars have captured Nanking - at this point the Barbarians have 5 cities and are the largest civilisation on the map by far! Aztecs 50g
064 : 0900 - TRADE
072 : 0700 - TRADE ROUTE 1 - Dye to Mentos 80g; The Republic; Revolution
075 : 0625 - Republic established 20% luxuries needed
083 : 0425 - Mysticism; Mongols Mathematics & 50g; Aztecs Seafaring & 50g; French alliance
084 : 0400 - Colosseum; start WLTCD; French maps
085 : 0375 - Liverpool size 5
086 : 0350 - Japanese alliance & 25g; TRADE ROUTE 2 - Salt to Paris 280g
087 : 0325 - Aqueduct
088 : 0300 - TRADE ROUTE 3 - Beads to Lyons 288g
089 : 0275 - PHILOSOPHY - ASTRONOMY; Aztecs 50g
091 : 0225 - WLTCD stops @ 12 tax rate 1.1.8 advances 11 turns
094 : 0150 - French 25g
095 : 0125 - Hides to Orleans 272g
097 : 0075 - University (tech)
098 : 0050 - French 25g
101 : 0020 - University
103 : 0060 - Aztecs 50g
104 : 0080 - Medicine; Hides to Orleans 232g twice
108 : 0160 - Engineering; French Bamking & 50g
109 : 0180 - COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY
112 : 0240 - SANITATION; Hides to Orleans 288g
114 : 0280 - Aztecs 50g
115 : 0300 - Bank
116 : 0320 - Theory of Gravity
117 : 0340 - Japanese 100g
118 : 0360 - Dye to Lyons 348g
120 : 0400 - French Economics; Japanese cancel alliance
121 : 0420 -
122 : 0440 - Hides to Orleans 144g
123 : 0460 - SHAKESPEARE'S THEATRE
124 : 0480 - Hides to Orleans 144g WLTCD
125 : 0500 - Sewer System; Mongols 50g
129 : 0580 - Harbour; DEMOCRACY
130 : 0600 - Aztecs 50g; French 75g
133 : 0660 - WLTPD at 21
134 : 0680 - Revolution
135 : 0700 - Democracy established
137 : 0740 - Physics; Hides to Orleans 188g
140 : 0800 - Iron Working
141 : 0820 - French Feudalism & 100g
142 : 0840 - Hides to Lyons 228g
144 : 0880 - ISAAC NEWTON'S COLLEGE; Magnetism; Aztecs 50g; Mongols dissolve alliance
145 : 0900 - French Bridge Building
146 : 0920 - Gunpowder
147 : 0940 - Hides to Orleans 188g
148 : 0960 - Metalurgy
150 : 1000 - Aztecs 50g; Mongols finally an alliance + 50g (war with Chinese)
151 : 1020 - Electricity
152 : 1040 - Beads to Lyons 228g
154 : 1080 - REFRIGERATION
156 : 1120 - French 50g
157 : 1140 - Chemistry
158 : 1160 - French Steam Engine & 150g
160 : 1200 - Explosives; Gems to Kyoto 234g
161 : 1220 - Engineer
163 : 1260 - Railroad
167 : 1340 - Industrialisation
168 : 1360 - DARWIN'S VOYAGE - The Corporation - Steel; Aztecs 50g
170 : 1400 - Engineer and back to size 21
173 : 1460 - Refining
177 : 1520 - Combustion
180 : 1550 - AUTOMOBILE; Gold to Orleans 288g
182 : 1570 - Superhighways;
183 : 1580 - Electronics
184 : 1590 - Aztecs 150g; French Chivalry & 100g;
186 : 1610 - French Conscription & 100g
187 : 1620 - Mass Production
182 : 1650 - Beads to Tours 183g
183 : 1660 - Leadership
184 : 1670 - Factory - MENTOS is no more! Chinese destroy Mentos
186 : 1690 - Power Plant; Tactics
187 : 1700 - Mass Transit
189 : 1720 - Machine Tools
192 : 1750 - Miniaturisation
185 : 1756 - COMPUTERS
186 : 1758 - Research Laboratory
188 : 1762 - Mobile Warfare
191 : 1768 - Robotics
194 : 1774 - Flight
198 : 1782 - Radio
202 : 1790 - Advanced Flight; War with Mongols; Gold to Samarkand 362g
204 : 1794 - Manufacturing Plant; Beads to Tsingtao 194g
206 : 1798 - Offshore Platform; Rocketry
210 : 1806 - SPACE FLIGHT
211 : 1808 - APOLLO PROGRAM
214 : 1814 - SSS#3; Atomic Theory
218 : 1822 - SSS#7; Plastics
222 : 1830 - SSS#11; Nuclear Fission
226 : 1838 - SSS#15; Nuclear Power
230 : 1846 - SSC#4; The Laser
231 : 1848 - SSC#5
232 : 1850 - SSC#6
233 : 1851 -
234 : 1852 - Superconductor
235 : 1853 - SSM#1
236 : 1854 - SSM#2
237 : 1855 -
238 : 1856 - SSM#3; Fusion Power; LAUNCH for 1871
245 : 1863 - Hoover Dam; Sell Power Plant
246 : 1864 - Recycling
247 : 1865 - Recycling Center
252 : 1870 - Environmentalism; Chinese city of Tatung destroyed
253 : 1871 - Landed A.C.

I was not as lucky as I have been in previous games - early tech gifts from ?allies? led to my achieving Monarchy sometime late in the 20th century (1450 BC actually, but it seemed like the late 20th century) and I was not able to maintain alliances throughout the game despite the now traditional encartas of tech gifts.
In hindsight the poor trade potential of my chosen site ruined the end game and I only ever managed an advance every three turns at the best and towards the end after flight could just get every four turns at 100% science - other than that I played this one well and am pleased with the result - how did you do crow???



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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

SG, I noticed you are trading for whatever you can get before Monarchy. When I'm offered something not on the path to Monarchy or for starting a wonder I always decline. In this game I was lucky to get Masonry early on which I traded for Alphabet, and as a bonus I got CerBurial as a gift. The Mongols just had to wait with their Horseback Riding.

Something else, I know most of you know this, but here it is anyway...
When you are about to deliver a caravan, first put all your workers on high-luxury squares (specials, sea squares) to max your luxuries. Don't mind a food and/or shield shortage. This way the trade bonus will be higher. Don't forget to return them after the delivery before you hit enter to end the turn.
__________________
Save the 's
[This message has been edited by Huey (edited March 06, 2000).]

[Scouse Gits]

Sorry Huey - I guess I was unclear. I did not TRADE for techs pre Monarchy, I asked for gifts or tribute and they GAVE me techs - at this point it is impossible to refuse! Of course, I could simply have refused to trade and not asked for gold prior to Monarchy, but this has never happened to me like this before.

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

That's why I never ask for tribs or gifts before Monarchy. Only when I start with no techs at all so I have something to trade with, like in this game where I could trade Masonry for Alphabet and noticed the English also had CerBurial which they gave when I asked for a gift. But I guess I was lucky, if I worked the other way around (Japanese-Mongols-French) instead of Chinese-English-Azteks I would have been in trouble too.

[vik]

Folks, I'm heading out of town on a business trip this morning. My access to a computer will probably be very limited, so I may not be able to get on here to answer any questions about the scenario.

I'm sure there are lots of folks here who can cover for me.

I'm working on another map, but I don't think I will have it done by next week. The things I am trying to accomplish with this map are a bit harder, so it is taking more time to make this thing. But it should be pretty fun.

I'm asking that someone else please contribute a map for OCC#5, and I'll come back and have this ready for OCC#6.

I'm debating about the huts/no huts scenario, so I'd like your collective opinions as to whether you generally like playing hutless or with huts, or just limit the number of huts. For the scenario I'm working on, it looks like you can get about 3 huts, and that's all.

To hopefully quell an earlier discussion in another thread, I tried the following: I placed a barbarian howitzer right outside my only city (using cheat mode). The city was defended by a Hides Caravan (non-veteran, non-fortified). The Hides Caravan successfully defended the city, taking no damage in the process.

Thanks, and continued good luck to you.

[Tom DeMille]

Huey, thanks for the tip on maxing out luxuries before delivering a caravan. I did not know that . No wonder the one time bonus from my caravans always seems smaller than other people's.

[Scouse Gits]

Tom, It's seriously disheartening to know that you have just improved your performance by 5 - 10%.
All I need to do now is trim a mere 100 turns or so off my best time ...

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor