Cradle 1.2 - Page 3

hexagonian · October 9, 2001, 09:46

player1's SLICs are bundled at my site with Martin's SLICs.

Just out of curiousity, what difficulty settings are players using, and what kind of success are you having in those settings?

Peter Triggs · October 10, 2001, 10:56

I use medium difficulty and ruins only, but like IW I've never *played* a game of CTP2 from start to finish. I usually just play for at most a couple of hundred turns to see if code that I've written is compatible with, and useful for, Cradle.

And actually even on these settings I find it quite challenging.

Chris B · October 12, 2001, 22:40

(Hi everybody I've come back again after a couple months in an AOK scenario league)

It is awesome what you guys have done in the last few months. The new tile improvements make all the difference in the world.

Couple of things though:

-The Ancient and Classical age sea units are very poorly balanced. Triremes come too late. And if you upgrade from biremes to trirememes you lose any units inside the biremes. Then after only 2 advances you can get the heptireme and longship. When you get these, however, a screen comes up that would look like it would be used to upgrade Coracles and biremes but it just says "0 0 units for 0 Gold" and doesn't do anything.

-Also, I believe medium is too hard. Even on that level the AI starts with 3 settlers to your 2.

-It also appears that with natural disaters the message box that comes up gets confused when dispalying what civ was hit. I was the Byzantines and many times said I was hit but then that the disaster occurred in a foreign city.

This mod would rule even more if you looked at these things.

-CB

Immortal Wombat · October 13, 2001, 09:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris B
-It also appears that with natural disaters the message box that comes up gets confused when dispalying what civ was hit. I was the Byzantines and many times said I was hit but then that the disaster occurred in a foreign city.

Which disaster, or is it all of them? I'll try and find the problem.

Chris B · October 13, 2001, 18:00

Immortal: Earthquakes is all I think, but I'll keep looking.

As for the game...

I'm right on track, in the high middle ages at about 1050 AD

-The Hoplites and Hypastpists didn't upgrade to men-at-arms, but otherwise no big bugs.

-The AI is playing really well!! On warlord I'm dominating but I just lost my 3 heroes in a siege

.

-Charlemagne makes no sense to be gotten with the Hagai Sophia. Pehaps he should be Belsarius instead?

-Legions last a real long time. Is this intentional?

-CB

P.S. I think I'm looking stupid- I sanyone else follwoing this thread???

hexagonian · October 14, 2001, 20:05

Well, I'm reading this...

Chris, I will be posting an update with some of the fixes that you have suggested in the next few days. I will be mainly fixing the early naval unit tree to stop the problem you had, and will adjust the unit updater in regards to that issue. Also I will make a minor adjustment on the tech tree, and a small adjustment on Praetorians.

I am also planning on posting files that can be used in an island setting, but there will not be any guarantee on whether these will work as intended. (Mainly trying to bump up the naval aspect of the game through strategies.txt.) It's worth a shot though.

RE: Charlemagne
The thinking behind using Hagia Sophia as a wonder to build Charlemagne was more or less based on the concept of the rise of power of the Medieval Church and the impact they held on the establishment of kings. I 'believe' that Charlemagne was helped greatly by the Church to gain his power, but if I am wrong on this, let me know.

Peter Triggs · October 15, 2001, 13:58

Along these lines, here's a longshot that might be worth trying. Add to the strategy ISLAND_NATION:

Code:

      // minimum distance between settled cities 
      MinSettleDistance   7

This really is supposed to be set in the SETTLE strategies, but *if* the priority for ISLAND_NATION is higher than that of whatever SETTLE strategy the civ is supposed to be using, this should over-ride it. Hopefully, then, a civ finding itself on an island will fill it up with cities faster and then try to get off.

ChrisB,

Quote:

And if you upgrade from biremes to trirememes you lose any units inside the biremes.

My bad, I forgot to mention that whenever you're going to upgrade ships you have to get your troops out of them first.

Quote:

a screen comes up that would look like it would be used to upgrade Coracles and biremes but it just says "0 0 units for 0 Gold" and doesn't do anything.

Odd. Do you remember if you had any gold at this point?

hexagonian · October 15, 2001, 16:29

Peter, I'm getting those messages too, but I just basically ignored them.

I have the update at my site now
UPDATE 10/15

This updates includes some adjustments to the naval tree, the incorporation of the SLIC files from player1 and Martin in a special Deity Slayer Edition, and the experimental SeaFarers option. I have also used Peter's suggestion too.

And as usual, if there are any gamefile crashes due to the update, report here so I can correct the files ASAP.

As to my games, I recently incorporated the SLICS from player1 and Martin - all I can say is WOW!!!

This is the best that I have seen the AI in regards to PW, and the variety of tile improvements is VERY good too. I am at turn 300 and am still scraping the bottom. I also made a change to my userprofile.txt file, setting maxplayers to 16 (I am using 12 AI civs) This is a recommened change for your games too, because any city that revolts is converted into a civ. And they may be small, but they zip up the powergraph extremely fast because of the CRADLE AI boosts for civs that are at the bottom of the graph, coupled with the new SLIC files. It gives a very realistic feel to the game, as well as a great deal more atmosphere concerning the rise and fall of civs. I have gained an additional 3 civs and one civ was conquered by another.

I also dropped the effect of the Killcity SLIC file in my Update, as I thought the numbers were too powerful as they stood. (100 Gold, 75 PW are the settings I have now) I have yet to kill a city in a game, as I do not like destroying cities, and I tend to play within the framework of the max cities limitation.

FINALLY...

At this point in time, I am very happy with the way the Mod is - I will probably limit any additional changes from now on, at least from a personal standpoint. This is partially because of the fact that there are 2 anticipated games (at least for me) coming out in the next few weeks - 'Civ3' and 'Stronghold'. I still want to and plan to play CTP2 (and may very well default to it after a couple of times with civ3), and I am still playing through 'Pharaoh', but the simple truth is that I do not have the time to devote to all 4 games. I generally work one game to death, and then move on.

If you feel you want to modify something in Cradle, go ahead and do so for your own setup - or post here and I will tell you how to do it, because I have internet access at work and I do lurk around here quite a bit - and I am alwys available for advice. If you have a SLIC file that you want to incorporate into Cradle, please email it to me and I will post it as an add-on at my site.

Once again, I thank everyone here who has posted suggestions, created SLIC files or played my setup, because Cradle wouldn't be half the Mod it is without all of you.

Despite the slams for CTP2 in the Civ3 Forums, I feel that Cradle in its current state, has brought the game to a VERY challenging level - I vastly prefer it to SMAC (having never actually played civ2 and only a little TOT). And yes, I am somewhat annoyed with the lack of support from Apolyton on getting Cradle posted - after all, Mark recently posted here asking what files to post, and we have yet to see any of them put onsite. But what am I going to do...

I do plan on becoming more active in the CIV3 Mod forum in the future - more as a support person though (documentation and graphics).

Martin Gühmann · October 15, 2001, 16:36

Code:

MinSettleDistance   7

Actual that means that new cities must be founded at least 7 cells from nearest cities collection border. That is not a good setting for small islands. That could cause that an AI will only found one city on a small island. Wes setting for island is:

Code:

MinSettleDistance   3

I think that is to close, as I saw an AI civ that didn't found a sea city on a small island - no way off.

Therefore my strategies.txt uses:

Code:

MinSettleDistance   4

That is the settle compact strategy. By the only settle distance that is used in MedPack2.

To make the AI settling more aggressivly you should set the MaxExec to 15 for all settling goals. This will help the AI in general to settle more aggressivly.

Here is an example line of a settling goal how it should look:

Code:

GoalElement { Goal GOAL_SETTLE_LAND         Priority   900000  MaxEval  25  MaxExec   15 }

-Martin

Immortal Wombat · October 15, 2001, 16:49

Is that a goodbye post Dave? make a thread

See you in Civ3 then.

Cradle has provided the best play-testing I ever had to do, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

If anyone is going to be posting in the Civ3 forums much, keep plugging for a scripting language.

Gen.Dragolen · October 15, 2001, 17:05

Hex,

I need to pick your brains for a sec:

Do you remember if there is a line in one of the files that tells the random map generator how much river type cell borders to use ?

I could have sworn that there was a line in userprofile.txt that was in with the other map settings. Playing on the big maps, I find that they are very short on rivers and the last time I checked, the our little planet is littered with them.

Peter Triggs · October 15, 2001, 19:02

Yeah, I expect that eventually we all will meet up again in Civ3. Because it lacks a scripting language, though, I just can't get excited about that game.

But as for Cradle, I think it's a great achievement. I seem to be too busy scripting to ever find time to play CTP2 properly, but I generally use Cradle to test my ideas in. Never been all that keen on the ancient stuff (I'm more of a post-gunpowder type guy, used to make ersatz fireworks when I was a kid) but Cradle has to be the best I've seen of the civ2/CTP ancient mods.

hexagonian · October 16, 2001, 10:54

Gen. Dragolen,
Go into Const.txt and look for the lines of copy

PERCENT_RIVER 25 # percent of land with a river on it (from 5)
RIVER_LENGTH 15 # average river length (from 15)
RIVER_CELL_WIDTH 3 # Size of cells to be searched for river starts (from 5)
RIVER_CELL_HEIGHT 4 # (highest point in each cell) (from 5)

I would guess that you could alter these numbers to suit your needs. I'm not sure how the lines below work though.

RIVER_CELL_WIDTH 3 # Size of cells to be searched for river starts (from 5)
RIVER_CELL_HEIGHT 4 # (highest point in each cell) (from 5)

And make sure you use the wettest settings.

Ben,
Actually I'm not going anywhere, in fact I know I will probably go back on my work and continue to tweak the files from time to time. But I feel that Cradle, for all intents and purposes, is done. Some of the most vexing problems that I have had with it lately, were resolved with the latest additions to the Update file.

For instance, the AI is doing a great job of building up it's infrastructure with the recent SLIC additions. I'm like you in that I have yet to play the game until the end, but I am now confident that there will not be a later game lag - or at least it will be very small.

The second issue was the Barbarian revolts in AI cities. This was an obvious fix, but I did not use the MaxPlayer setting because I thought the pollution messages were indicating that there would be unwanted pollution effects in the very early game. But those messages are more of an informational bug, and do not affect gameplay - as the oceans have not risen and engulfed the world yet... I do not know how to disable that message, so players will have to live with it. And I am thrilled with the rise of these splinter civs, and the speed that they are catching up, at least on the science level. I do not know if they could truly catch up on a empire size standing, because by the time they come into play, there isn't much land available, but they definitely add to the game now.

I have added an attempt at a Seafarers version of Cradle, but I probably will not be able to playtest it to the extent it warrants. So if anyone is interested in taking the files and working on that aspect, go ahead and do so.

Chris' suggestions regarding the units were very good, and I made most of them, but from a playability standpoint, they were minor to the overall picture. But it is for these types of reasons why I want to say that Cradle is finished. I know that I could probably sit down and make some additional changes, if I took the time to really analyze the files. The funny thing is that I could then look at the files a week from now, after making those changes and find something else to change. You can use the same logic for any game too - look how eager everyone is to get their hands on civ3 as modders, and everyone will approach it from different angles.

As for the addition of new SLIC files to Cradle, these files are really at the heart of what CTP2 can do. I initially set out to build a Mod without using SLIC files, and many of my changes do help the AI, but what has been accomplished lately via SLIC is fantastic, and they make Cradle a great Mod. My ultimate goal was to see Cradle as a base to build a series of historical Scenarios (either created by me or by others), but that will not happen because of a lack of a huge fan base.

And I agree with Ben and Peter that it is hard for me to work up a great deal of enthusism for the civ3 Modification process, not because I have skill in working with a scripting language, but because I realize what a scripting language can do.

Ironic...because the lack of a scripting language will be a big weakness of civ3 - however, I'm fairly sure that civ3 out of the box will be a better game than CTP2. So there will be tremendous fan support for civ3, but in the long run, CTP2 has more potential to be a truly great game from a modification standpoint - and it is the fan-created stuff that takes any game to a higher level, because we are the ones who end up knowing the game inside and out. But unfortunately, the work here in the CTP2 Forums will never get a fair shake because of the bias against the CTP series (justified for the default game, but not from the Modders version of the game). Especially ironic is the fact that many of the touted civ3 additions are already available either in the CTP2 default or Modded games. And I find some of the blind loyalty to civ3 especially funny, when these new 'revolutionary' features are discussed.

But there still is a community of CTP2 creators who are in the process of creating new SLIC files. I would ask that if you are doing this, that you make an effort to make it Cradle-compatible, and post your results with those files. Send them to me and I'll post them on my site, though they probaly will not be bundled with the Cradle Base Package, since I will not be playing CTP2 so much in the future to test what you've done. (I'm glad to hear that many of you are using Cradle to test your SLIC files though).

As for my involvement in civ3 Mods, I wouldn't mind seeing my tech tree/units used as a base for a Mod, but I really do not see myself getting into that now. For one thing, I have no familliarity with the civ2-3 file structure, and I do not know if I want to spend the time to get to know the files to the level that is needed to make those wholesale changes. That was far and away, the most time consuming aspect of creating Cradle. I see myself as working on the graphics and the documentation aspects of a Mod.

...to be honest, it is the one area that I can work in and not actually have to spend a great deal of time actually playing the game, if I find I still prefer my Cradle setup over civ3.

Immortal Wombat · October 16, 2001, 14:12

Ah well then, we'll both just knock around as modding consultants then. I think I'm not going to get Civ3 before Christmas, and then I'll get it if the AI is good, and a mp patch is on its way, or they add a scripting language. Other than that, I'm not too bothered to be honest, I should start concentrating on school work.

Gen.Dragolen · October 17, 2001, 15:08

Hex,

Thanks. Const.txt I thought I was loosing my mind that night.

And if Civ3 doesn't have a scripting language or multiplayer, CTP2 will remain my game of choice. Now if only we could get PBEM too.

I'm thinking that Civ3 may be worthwhile getting if it's not as expensive as CTP2 was. I can't afford $70+ cdn for pc game. Bills to pay and people to feed, etc... you know.

Considering how much time we all spend making this game worthwhile, it's a shame we couldn't get Activision or a better software company to incorporate the mods and make some much needed additions to the executable to fix what amounted to a sloppy rewrite of CTP.

One of my goals this winter is to get the AI behaving more like a player would: building commerce improvements ad nauseum, or if their personality is diplomatic, to have them working on peace treaties with the other AI's, or if more militaristic to have their research maxed out and the latest units on patrol.

The other main goals are to see if I can make the AI make probing attacks with a decent sized force and to balance out the resources research to something a little more reasonable. Too often I see it walk up with a single unit that gets killed by bombardment the next turn. If I can figure out how to set a minimum force size for attacking, that might make it a little more interesting. And if some changes to the gold production for improvements work out right, it should make research a better for the AI if a .slc can't force it to build commerce improvements.

Hopefully by about February I should have a working version that has the best elements from the mountain of work you have all done so far. Be forewarned, it will seem a little odd at first as it will have a set unit scale: divisions and regiments only so an army will be massive.

This is assuming that Civ3 turns out to be a clunker...

Martin Gühmann · October 18, 2001, 12:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Gen.Dragolen
And if Civ3 doesn't have a scripting language or multiplayer, CTP2 will remain my game of choice. Now if only we could get PBEM too.

Locutus was working on heavy complicated slic that would fix or rather add the human-human diplomacy thing to PBEM and HotSeat. It is just a small thing in one of the *.ldl files to make these options available but as I said the diplomacy thing is missing. And I have no idea if Locutus is still working on it.

Quote:

Originally posted by Gen.Dragolen
And if some changes to the gold production for improvements work out right, it should make research a better for the AI if a .slc can't force it to build commerce improvements.

Hey slic can force the AI to build commerce improvements. I allready made this slic file it is already a part of GoodMod and Craddle and the is also a costumized version for MedPack2 available.

A script language is powerfull and that is the reason why CTP2 is still alive of course in combination with the open text files. So far Civ3 has only the open text file or/in combination with a confortable editor.

For me I won't by Civ3 so fast maybe next year, but I know that I will have much less time in comparison to the last year.

-Martin

hexagonian · October 18, 2001, 13:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Gen.Dragolen
I'm thinking that Civ3 may be worthwhile getting if it's not as expensive as CTP2 was. I can't afford $70+ cdn for pc game. Bills to pay and people to feed, etc... you know.

Actually I am lucky in that my birthday is in late November and with Christmas in December, I know what to ask for as presents. My wife is always irritated because I never know what I want either. So asking for civ3/Stronghold (and nothing else) ensures that I will get them...

Quote:

Originally posted by Gen.Dragolen
Considering how much time we all spend making this game worthwhile, it's a shame we couldn't get Activision or a better software company to incorporate the mods and make some much needed additions to the executable to fix what amounted to a sloppy rewrite of CTP.

Well we know that isn't going to happen. BTW, I gotta say that I'm impressed with the screenshot of the civ3 editor. Looks to be easy to edit entries, once you get the raw data entered in whatever text files you have to work with.

But no SLIC...

Quote:

Originally posted by Gen.Dragolen
One of my goals this winter is to get the AI behaving more like a player would: building commerce improvements ad nauseum, or if their personality is diplomatic, to have them working on peace treaties with the other AI's, or if more militaristic to have their research maxed out and the latest units on patrol.

These may be SLIC type functions. The commerce SLIC fixes provided by player1 and Martin seem to address this issue, and player1 was also working on diplomatic updates for Dale's Diplomod. Some of the science/production settings for the various personalities can be adjusted in strategies.txt. MedMod supposedly added more strategies (or was it goals), and was also supposed to make the AI more fluid in its decision-making. But I have yet to play MedMod.

Quote:

Originally posted by Gen.Dragolen
The other main goals are to see if I can make the AI make probing attacks with a decent sized force and to balance out the resources research to something a little more reasonable. Too often I see it walk up with a single unit that gets killed by bombardment the next turn. If I can figure out how to set a minimum force size for attacking, that might make it a little more interesting. And if some changes to the gold production for improvements work out right, it should make research a better for the AI if a .slc can't force it to build commerce improvements.

The AI will focus on growth first, so they build farms before anything else. One thing I noted in using the combination of player1/Martin's SLICs was that the AI was building a lot of gold increasing improvements, and there was also a nice mix of production improvements too.

And take a look at my settings in tileimp.txt file, because I would mix in a few food increasing bonuses in the commere improvement and also limited on what types of tiles improvements could be built. This forces the AI to build certain improvements on tiles - once those tiles are filled up, then the AI has to build other types of improvements (commerce-based for example) on other types of tiles. You will have to make adjustments in the ImprovementLists.txt to make sure the AI will build those improvements too. (The default file was incomplete...)

Concerning armies, the Frenzy SLIC is a step in the right direction - most of the units I encounter in Cradle are stacked up. And the nice thing about Frenzy is that it will often send stacks from halfway around the world into human player lands, so the human has to usually deal with them (oftentimes when the player is targeting some other AI civ) The downside is that Frenzy will override the garrison commands if those come into conflict.

If Frenzy could be adapted in some way to fix that issue, that would be fantastic.

Quote:

Originally posted by Gen.Dragolen
Hopefully by about February I should have a working version that has the best elements from the mountain of work you have all done so far. Be forewarned, it will seem a little odd at first as it will have a set unit scale: divisions and regiments only so an army will be massive.

Good luck on those additions - I know I really enjoyed the process of seeing what I did work. Keep asking me questions too - I'll try to help you out with what I know (or suspect) email: hexagonia@yahoo.com

Quote:

Originally posted by Gen.Dragolen
This is assuming that Civ3 turns out to be a clunker...

I do not believe it will be a clunker. There are some really good sounding features (goods needed for unit production is probably the best sounding feature, and culture looks like it will add a lot to the game). But there are a lot of CTP style features that I really like, and will miss in civ3. I cannot see myself devoting the same energy to civ3 that I have devoted to the CTP series. (Ironic, because I have only played a total of 2-3 default CTP1-CTP2 games - the rest have been fan-created modifications)

And, as a player, I will get a lot more satisfaction out of playing my own Mod over anything released by a gaming company.

hexagonian · October 26, 2001, 15:34

This is a small update that fixes a few of the message boxes.

The first message fix regards Disasters. They are now only reported for a city, rather than both a city and civ. The civ never seemed to match up with the city involved.

The second message fix regards the pollution warning that occurs at the beginning of the game - if you are using a MaxPlayer setting higher than NumPlayer. It is merely an add-on to the normal message that warns the player to ignore the message.

Pilfur · November 8, 2001, 02:10

I came back from my non-civ games upon hearing about Civ3. I can't play that game due to my low end system (actually due to my poor video card in my laptop), but being in a civ mood I've started playing CTP2 again.

You guys have done some stuff!! A new Med Mod, a new cradle mod. A whole new mod about goods. This is fantastic

I gunna play around with all this stuff you guys made. I'm especially interested in cradle mod because I like ancient times.

Thanks for all the effort you guys have put into all this.

Pilfur · November 13, 2001, 22:51

Hmm, seems you all ran away to play CIV III. I played it at a friends house recently and I was not impressed. You can't combine armies! There's no ranged, flank, and front units. I can't combine arches with knights and spearmen - that sucks!!

So come back to this game

hexagonian · November 14, 2001, 10:38

So Pilfur,

What's your impression of 'Cradle' so far...

On a different note, Peter is looking into revamping the DiploMod and Frenzy SLICs.

Martin Gühmann · November 14, 2001, 12:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Pilfur
Hmm, seems you all ran away to play CIV III. I played it at a friends house recently and I was not impressed. You can't combine armies! There's no ranged, flank, and front units. I can't combine arches with knights and spearmen - that sucks!!

So come back to this game

Ran away to play a game that is not available in Germany as a German version? It is just a question of time. At the moment I have to less time, unfortunatly.

But I hope to develope my mod any further, therefore I am just hanging around here in the hope to implement some stuff, like parts of player1's AI, into my mod next weekend. (I know I hoped the same thing before last weekend.)

-Martin

Pilfur · November 14, 2001, 13:28

I am very much enjoying my current game, running under cradle. I found myself in a very difficult start up position, a 12 tile island, but have risen to the challenge and am now in 2nd place. I have noticed the long freeze upon discovering free units (which kind of sucks, but is made up for elsewhere) and an odd discovery of dead tiles. The dead tiles are very rare but do turn up from time to time and in an era long before pollution should matter.

I love the slinger unit btw! Very cool. And all the extra goods (is that goodmod mixed in?) are excellent. I found camels! lol

Immortal Wombat · November 14, 2001, 14:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Pilfur
...and an odd discovery of dead tiles. The dead tiles are very rare but do turn up from time to time and in an era long before pollution should matter.

Probably a volcano. Wait until your unit is on top of one when it blows

kaigun · November 18, 2001, 07:59

Since downloading the latest changes I've been playing the Deity level ..even the arrival of Civ 3 hasnt kept me away from this..Its turn 634 and it just gets better ..my congratulations to everyone involved with adapting this game ..This Mod now simply rocks tha game has been a challange and still is..lots of pillaging and at present the AI is throwing Nukes at each other ..Im trying to stay out of it in my little corner of the map..Till turn 300 or so everyone was fairly even then large gaps arose ...Two nations are now over 50 cities I have 32 ...but the most advanced and the most prone to throw missiles is a measly 24..there are still about another 8 minors left on the board and Im positive a Mayan Ninja nuked one of my cities...excellent Civ3 looks cute but from light play (civ3) this mod seems more fun
try it next i want to try the seafarer version

kaigun · November 18, 2001, 20:01

furthur thought after playing.....a question is Bombardment an asset or detriment to the AI .....I observed in the early part of the game cities changing hands and the AI assaulting my cities......but later with the development of siege a little and a lot with the addition of artill+bombers..the AI likes to bombard bombard and bombard again until cities are devoid of units before launching an attack....despite more power/ larger empires the AI powers gain and lose considerably fewer cities later in the game .....despite when checking often having minimal garrisons..Ive checked the AI have 2 stacks each of 12 with 3 ranged units begin to bombard a city with 3 units for turn after endless turn...the attacked city keeps getting a (ie1) new unit and it goes on and on.....So Im starting to think bombardment seperate from combat is not agood idea

Pilfur · November 19, 2001, 02:14

First, I gotta ask... NUKES? You are playing the ancient version of CTP2 and you actually made it to the NUKE stage??? I very very rarely make it that far with the normal CTP2 (or civ for that matter). By the time Nukes would be a factor either I'm dead (rare), or I'm so powerful that the game just isn't fun anymore. I'd love to see a balanced game stretching into the present day and beyond. It just has never happened for me.

Yes. The AI defends itself much better with this mod. AI cities very well protected (these guys seem to go a little overboard on the military actually - which gives the player a bit of an edge).

AI is lacking in the sense that it will never launch a comprehensive campaign to whipe out a region, but it does attack nearby cities from time to time - espescially if they encroach on "its" territory.

Pilfur · November 19, 2001, 02:15

BTW, anybody care to tell me where the lil icons went? My archer dude has abandoned my posts (which is his post - bad pun).

Oh, and also .... um... why is it May in November?

hexagonian · November 19, 2001, 13:01

The fact that the AI is using nukes is cool

I haven't played the game that far yet though.

kaigun,
I'm assuming that you are using the ultra gigantic map setting in your game. Nice to hear that several civs are expanding to that (50) size too. It's been my impression that AI civ size is limited by the borders. The AI will respect borders when it settles, so it does not expand as large as it could.

Pillaging is working too

In my current game, the AI is proving to be especiallly nasty in pillaging tiles. I have to set up a series of stacks that are specifically geared toward the pillage problem - it also prevents me from a purely expansionistic military policy.

RE:Bombardment
Try this...
Go into the strategies.txt file and look for the following line of text under the
STRATEGY_MILITARIST_DEFAULT {
entry

GoalElement { Goal GOAL_BOMBARD Priority 700000 MaxEval 25 MaxExec 4 }

Drop the numbers to
GoalElement { Goal GOAL_BOMBARD Priority 600000 MaxEval 15 MaxExec 4 }

And then look for the following line of text under the
STRATEGY_SEIGE {
entry

GoalElement { Goal GOAL_BOMBARD Priority 757000 MaxEval 25 MaxExec 4 }

Drop the numbers to
GoalElement { Goal GOAL_BOMBARD Priority 657000 MaxEval 15 MaxExec 4 }

You should be able to use this in your current game - but make a backup just in case.

The Seafarer's Edition is merely experimental - it has, as far as I can tell, not been playtested. The changes are in the strategies.txt to get the AI to focus more on ship construction.

Pilfur
RE: Comprehensive Campaigns
I agree - the AI still lacks what I would call a true 'killer punch' in the military department. I have seen an AI civ from time to time take several cities from me in a short span of time, but it does not push as much as it should, or could. (as a sidenote, I am glad that the AI does not push it's full advantage, especially in the early going, as the game would end quickly for me)

To this end, I had structured Cradle to attempt to make it harder for the human player to pursure a strictly militaristic expansionistic approach himself. Low unit heal rates, various AI boosts, losses by disasters and disease, and now the rougher pillaging factor - by themselves do not hinder the human player too much, but in combo with one another make a big difference.

One thing that does make a difference is to play Cradle with a lot of civs on the hardest setting and Barbarians on the highest level.

Peter Triggs is looking into a rewrite of the Diplomacy and Frenzy code - one of the goals is to get the AI to coordinate attacks. And Frenzy does have some exploitable loopholes which need to be addressed.

I think Apolyton pulled off the logos (avatars) because of heavy traffic.

hexagonian · November 21, 2001, 10:36

Quote:

Originally posted by hexagonian
RE: Comprehensive Campaigns
I agree - the AI still lacks what I would call a true 'killer punch' in the military department...

I'll have to qualify that statement after what happened to me last night in my game...

The Mongols and the Arabians went on a rampage though my empire. (Mongols from the east, Arabians from the west.) In a span of 10 turns, they took 6 cities (out of 16). During that time, the Apolyton and the Celts also attacked me, further whittling my armies down so I could not do anything to stop the Mongol/Arab invasion.

Also, a bit of interesting info pulled from the civ3 forum. It has been reported that Soren Johnson, the lead AI designer of civ3 has stated that the AI in CTP2 does not have any inside info regarding the deployment of human troops/stealth units, and that the AI in CTP2 does not automatically know the human player's weak points. As this would be a major cheat, IMO, this tells me how the creators of civ3 managed to get the AI to be so good.

It also tells me that what has been accomplished in the CTP2 Mod community is, in many ways, the greater accomplishment. Kudos to everyone here!!!