How strictly do you micromanage trade?

[Campo]

Don't forget the added risk of losing the unit. It's really frustrating to spend 50 turns sheparding a camel to a distant city and then have it destroyed in a sneak attack just before it arrives.

The longer it's out there, the greater the chance of destruction.

[Mercantile]

even worse is when the city no longer demands the goods you have lugged around for those 50 years

[DaveV]

Supply and demand is only one factor in the trade equation, and can be outweighed by the other factors (like the sum of the arrows in the two cities). If you can find an AI city with a bunch of trade arrows (not always easy; the AI is so clueless about trade that it will work a regular forest square in preference to silk), it can be worth your while to send all your caravans there, demanded or not. It may be good perfectionist strategy to let an AI build the Colossus in hopes of having a good trading partner.

[Chainsaw]

quote: Originally posted by Mercantile on 11-17-2000 01:25 PM even worse is when the city no longer demands the goods you have lugged around for those 50 years

Oooh yes. That's about the moment I want to smash my PC. It's most likely to happen just about one or two turns before your caravan reaches its destination...

Has someone any clue WHEN and WHY demand and supply change? Is there a thread anywhere about this topic?

[Jim W]

quote: Originally posted by DaveV on 11-17-2000 01:35 PM Supply and demand is only one factor in the trade equation, and can be outweighed by the other factors (like the sum of the arrows in the two cities). If you can find an AI city with a bunch of trade arrows (not always easy; the AI is so clueless about trade that it will work a regular forest square in preference to silk), it can be worth your while to send all your caravans there, demanded or not. It may be good perfectionist strategy to let an AI build the Colossus in hopes of having a good trading partner.

So then you find the best trading partner, in terms of arrows, but to get there you have to go three quarters of the way across the world, then halfway back again.

Say, didn't I say this once before?)

What I'm getting at, is do you always send your freight or caravan to the _best_ city, or do you just go for somewhere quick?

I suspect this is one of those things that depends on your temperament, or your mood at the time, or the weather conditions outside your window.

Jim W

[Mercantile]

JimW i think what Dave meant, and correct me if i am wrong, is the best close city trading in arrows ie you and the babylonians are only a small water away. Trade all your caravans to babylon, instead of sending some elsewhere, unless other close cities demand what you have. if your sharing a continent which is common then the closest best trader you are not planning to conquer anytime soon

[Hawkman]

I pick a nice city on an overseas continent, in a peaceful country, then send all my caravans there. After a few caravans, that city will have lots of trade icons so the prices will be good. If there is a better price near that city, I might divert some caravans, but I don't bother looking too far.

Dumping all my caravans into one city means the AI doesn't get many trade routes from me, and thus doesn't benefit from my caravans as it would if I went to many cities.

[Scouse Gits]

I have just posted in another thread that I am a bad micro manager. I do organise my trade where possible! It is important to maximise the trade icons of the city delivering the caravan, and also to check F6 to ensure that the science bonus will not be wasted if the beaker line is almost full.

Trade is configured badly in the game, but I tend to follow the broad outlines such as:
Continent A requires Silk, Beads and Wine;
Continent B requires Hides, Spice and Dye; and I attempt to send freight out in generally the right directions. At times anything will do anywhere!

Keep an eye on F7, the wonder cities. Some time ago the AI beat me to Magellan's, which really made me sulk! (On a large map I think it is a "must have")
The Zulus had not built it in their capital, so a caravel was loaded with two caravans and a diplo. Two demanded commodities delivered and enough gold to buy the place! That boat came home 5 squares a turn!

I like one or two regular trading partners. Always ensure you give these civs Republic as soon as possible as they will soon change to this form of government and enhance your trade.

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SG (2)

[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited November 17, 2000).]

[Jim W]

I always check the supply and demand chart, but quite frequently I find that in order to get to the city offering the best rate I have to sail halfway across the world to the east, then round a corner and sail about three-quarters that distance back again.

I quite frequently then say "to heck with that" and sail it to some nearer city, possibly even one of the same civ that's offering the great rate elsewhere.

My rationale is that I can use the cash betyter sooner than later, and I'm tying up a transport for fifty years on this long run.

I realize the ultimate answer is "what am I trading and
how big is the profit?" But over the long haul ( ) am I losing a lot by not going with the best offer?

Jim W

[tonic]

I think it is important to distinguish between the first three trade routes and the rest that follow because of the importance of the ongoing trade and gold arrows. Once three have been established, one would be a bit more choosy.

With an OCCer's perspective, I would be looking to send out the later caravans if the commodity is in demand or even an undemanded commodity if the target city is desirable ie has the appropriate government type, large size and in an obviously trade-rich city pattern (to upgrade the three extant trade routes). If these criteria are absent I'd tend to keep the caravan at home (or maybe just a few squares in the direction of most cities) until the demand changes. You have to keep calculating the pros and cons of using the commodity caravan as trade bonus or as a Wonder fodder (and in OCC, Spaceship fodder)- just under 200 gold may be a reasonable indicator.

SG(2)'s point about checking F6 so that you do not waste the science bonus is well-taken. It is worth the risk of the demand changing in the next turn.

[Jim W]

quote: Originally posted by tonic on 11-18-2000 06:28 PM I think it is important to distinguish between the first three trade routes and the rest that follow because of the importance of the ongoing trade and gold arrows. Once three have been established, one would be a bit more choosy. With an OCCer's perspective, I would be looking to send out the later caravans if the commodity is in demand or even an undemanded commodity if the target city is desirable ie has the appropriate government type, large size and in an obviously trade-rich city pattern (to upgrade the three extant trade routes). If these criteria are absent I'd tend to keep the caravan at home (or maybe just a few squares in the direction of most cities) until the demand changes. You have to keep calculating the pros and cons of using the commodity caravan as trade bonus or as a Wonder fodder (and in OCC, Spaceship fodder)- just under 200 gold may be a reasonable indicator. SG(2)'s point about checking F6 so that you do not waste the science bonus is well-taken. It is worth the risk of the demand changing in the next turn.

Reading between the lines here, I get the impression that you are on the "I micromanage my trade just the itsy-bitsy-teeniest bit" side.

For my own part, I micromanage very mildly, somewhere between the extremes of sending all my stuff to one foreign city and always picking out the most optimum city. I don't go so far as to keep caravans or freight trucks hanging around waiting for a good place to go to, thjough. There are certain items, notably gold, which will flash from "in demand" to "not wanted" within the space of a couple of turns.

How do you guarantee that, if you've finally found the optimum city, that everything isn't going to change by the time you've gotten your transport halfway across the world and three quarters of the way back again to the Thorjan city of Kebwil?

A side question, to everybody: Do you try to deliver directly to the city, or just land on the coast somewhere and go overland, hoping that the AI has a good road net up?

For myself, I prefer to deliver as close to the port as I can get. There are times when the AI will have all kinds of units and stuff in the way, when I'll have to take a more circuitous route, but as far as I'm concerned, the more direct the route the better.

Jim W

[Carolus Rex]

If it's a coastal city, I let the caravan enter the city straight from the trireme/caravel/whatever. If you let it enter an adjacent terrain square, there's always a risk the AI demands a tech of you and declares war if you refuse. No more caravan...

Carolus

[tonic]

quote: Originally posted by Jim W on 11-19-2000 11:40 AM For my own part, I micromanage very mildly, somewhere between the extremes of sending all my stuff to one foreign city and always picking out the most optimum city. I don't go so far as to keep caravans or freight trucks hanging around waiting for a good place to go to, thjough. There are certain items, notably gold, which will flash from "in demand" to "not wanted" within the space of a couple of turns.

To clarify my point a bit, I always send out commodity caravans in demand especially gold and all the later ones like wine and oil with their extra bonus. I only keep around caravans with commodities not demanded (after the first three trade routes for the city have been established). I guess in OCC there is more consideration given to the waiting tactic because of the need for extra caravans in the end game.

quote: How do you guarantee that, if you've finally found the optimum city, that everything isn't going to change by the time you've gotten your transport halfway across the world and three quarters of the way back again to the Thorjan city of Kebwil?

That's still the 30K gold question with randomness and maybe the overall supply and demand of the extant cities of all civs coming into play. If a series of commodity caravans are sent out to their respective target cities, then the risk of changes in demand on route can be spread out a bit and the delays resulting from a change of target city can be absorbed and maybe even exploited to fit in with the timing of the science advances as revealed by F6.

quote: A side question, to everybody: Do you try to deliver directly to the city, or just land on the coast somewhere and go overland, hoping that the AI has a good road net up?

A few factors affect the decision like

1. If my vessel needs to head home for an urgent mission (eg other precious commodity caravans to be delivered), then I would drop the caravan and head home at once.

2. For a hostile city or one with a poor attitude, then direct delivery from the vessel is called for

3. Of course there are sometimes no alternative due to lack of ocean access to the target city and one would hope for the best. But it is a bit foolhardy to take a long trek across hostile territory on the off-chance that you'd get through - better to wait for the demand to change to a friendly civ's city.