Civ3 Interview: JEFF MORRIS

MarkG · July 29, 2001, 10:15

Apolyton's Civilization III Interviews Series
Jeff Morris, Civ3 Assistant Producer

The assistant producer for Civilization III opens our Civilization III Interviews Series. Jeff answers many questions and talks about the changes in the gameplay

Eli · July 29, 2001, 10:48

Cool.

Eli · July 29, 2001, 10:55

After reading the interview... I think I should move to the pessimistic civers club.

There was some new valuable info there, but I expected for more.

MarkG · July 29, 2001, 11:09

share your pain with us in the chat room eli

http://apolyton.net/misc/chat/room.shtml

Eli · July 29, 2001, 11:29

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkG
share your pain with us in the chat room eli

http://apolyton.net/misc/chat/room.shtml

I tried, but you kicked me out of there.

El hidalgo · July 29, 2001, 11:44

Quote:

Supported, there will be 7 civilizations in a game, 8 including the player. The editor allows you to adjust this, though many screens are setup only for this 8 civ limit.

OK, what exactly does it mean that "many screens are setup only for this 8 civ limit"? What does a "screen" mean in this context?

yin26 · July 29, 2001, 11:45

(moved here because ANY discussion about Jeff's comments must stay in one thread, of course...)

"Ugly? Are you on about that again, Yin?" Well, unless that polish actually upgrades the graphics engine...

Quote:

Graphic tasks right now are finishing the remaining overlay tiles (like poles and mines) and polishing screens.

"Yin, you said buggy? How could you possibly know?" Well, Jeff told us:

Quote:

An open public beta was originally planned, but that window I was describing never really opened. A closed public beta wasn't an option since don't they involve a large enough 'sample' for compatibility testing and requires immense manpower to manage.

Now a closed public beta is too small to test compatibility issues, understood. So, compatibility issues will only surface AFTER THE GAME IS RELEASED. Write that one down, folks. Sure, we'll call all the bugs user-related bugs if you want.

We can only assume, then, most testing is being done by the programmers themselves and a small, insider group. Can anyone else see the computer completely failing to beat you AT ALL? No? How about this: Can you feel your system crashing to the desktop yet?

"Now this Civ 2.5 thing always sounded lame. What is it now?" Thanks to Jeff, I have a better word for it: 'Conservative Sequel.'

Quote:

At first I wasn't a fan of a conservative sequel, though I'm a complete convert now.

Well, I guess when you don't schedule/leave enough time for thorough testing, you're pretty much left NOT wanting to do something new, since doing something basically old is going to be hard enough.

Congrats, Firaxis. Looks like a real winner is lined up here. You think the graphics just need polish, you don't make testing a priority and you don't mind being conservative. After 10 years of Civ, you've thrown up your arms and said: "Well, the thing can't really be improved, folks. Hope your system is compatible, by the way, since you'll be paying $50+ to be part of our post-release public beta."

Kautilya · July 29, 2001, 11:50

I am kinda disappointed that no one asked a question about the AI. IIRC the poll a few months back showed this to be the no. 1 concern and there has been NO news from Firaxis about any efforts to improve AI.

Apart from that actually I agree with the "conservative" philosophy to game-design . I would actually prefer a Civ 2.5 provided that the designers use the extra time to improve the AI , interface and (less importantly) graphics.
But if the gameplay is conservative and there is no big improvement elsewhere then you can't help feeling short-changed.

Nemo · July 29, 2001, 12:02

Quote:

"Well, the thing can't really be improved, folks. Hope your system is compatible, by the way, since you'll be paying $50+ to be part of our post-release public beta."

Well, I for one will NOT be a guinie pig!! After that interview in conjuction with the screen shots, I won't buy it until after it drops below the $30 mark (I was going to buy 1st day, but not anymore).

After that interview, I don't believe I will purchase it right away. Comments that were made sound too much like CTP situation, which is one thing EVERYONE has always asked "please take you time and do it right" --well, thats not happening, apparently. And I am not going to be burned CivIII like i was with CTP.

MarkG · July 29, 2001, 12:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Kautilya
I am kinda disappointed that no one asked a question about the AI.

this is only the first of hopefully more civ3 interviews

besides, it's more suitable to ask one of the programmers about the ai....

Solver · July 29, 2001, 12:06

Good job by us guys, and good interview!

TCO · July 29, 2001, 12:08

We're in tha chatroom. There are 6 of us.

yin26 · July 29, 2001, 12:08

Yes, I do applaud the efforts of the Apolyton team and Jeff for agreeing to do it. I don't think I'll buy Civ when it is released based on some of this info, but that in and of itself will no doubt help save me a lot of time and hassle. Honestly, it was a helpful interview. Thanks, guys!

MarkG · July 29, 2001, 12:11

Quote:

Originally posted by El hidalgo
OK, what exactly does it mean that "many screens are setup only for this 8 civ limit"? What does a "screen" mean in this context?

an example: in ctp2 you could increased the selectable civs to 64. the "choose civ" screen though at the beggining of the map was created that way that it showed only the first 42.

Grumbold · July 29, 2001, 12:12

Well I think this about concludes any hope I had of being able to constructively contribute to Civ 3 discussion. Jeff has shot down any hope I had that at least some genuine progress was going to be made on any front apart from the oft-quoted culture and trade.

- No public testing, open or closed, because of company deadlines.
- No support for more than 8 civs in standard games, even in mod games some screens won't be able to handle it.
- No major changes to the currently exhibited graphics style.
- They are taking a conservative approach to evolving a 5 year old game which has been considerably improved upon by other rivals in the meantime, so we should assume that nothing is new unless they have already announced it.

I think I can rely on Yin to uphold the pessimists view and quietly slide off to spend time on the Arcanum and Morrowind websites. Neither of them are going to be the best strategy game ever, but at least they should be good fun to play instead of the same tired old game under a new skin with new bugs. IMO only the top-secret "cool new ideas" for multiplayer can save Civ 3 now.

MarkG · July 29, 2001, 12:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Nemo
Well, I for one will NOT be a guinie pig!!

there is always that thing called "demo".....

yin26 · July 29, 2001, 12:14

I'm not sure. The latest news there really hit me on some sore spots. I can understand the Civ 2.5 crowd, but it just doesn't interest me at all. I'll take a day or two think about if I, as you, wouldn't be better off playing other games.

Locutus · July 29, 2001, 12:30

Well, my expectations were never very high to begin with, but after reading this interview it looks like I'm gonna have to lower them even more. I think Civ2.5 is being optimistic (no pun intended), it looks more like Civ2.2 to me (and after a few patches it might be Civ2.3)

This is good news for CtP (& MedMod) though, the series might not die at Civ3's release after all...

But I want to thank the Apolyton interviewers for organizing this interview anyway and to Jeff Morris for giving such straight answers

Your efforts are appreciated, if only to let me know not to buy the game as soon as it comes out.

El hidalgo,
More examples from CtP1: You could officially play with 8 civs in a single game. Unofficially this could be increased to 32. However, the science and diplomacy screens didn't support this, so you could only see the scientific developments of 8 opponents, even when playing with 16 or 32 civs. Same with diplomacy, you could only contact the first 8 players in the game, regardless of the number of players. Expect this sort of stuff in Civ3 as well...

Nemo · July 29, 2001, 12:33

Hey, I was K-Lined from dalnet again.
Mark, next time, can you p-l-e-a-s-e put the IRC on another server?

El hidalgo · July 29, 2001, 12:35

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkG
an example: in ctp2 you could increased the selectable civs to 64. the "choose civ" screen though at the beggining of the map was created that way that it showed only the first 42.

Thanks! So basically this means that you play with a maximum of 8 civs unless you go through the editor? I never played CTP (or SMAC, just Civ & Civ 2), but in Civ 2 there was only one screen where you picked your civs. I guess that's why the idea of multiple screens where you can select civs confused me.

El hidalgo · July 29, 2001, 12:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Locutus
El hidalgo,
More examples from CtP1: You could officially play with 8 civs in a single game. Unofficially this could be increased to 32. However, the science and diplomacy screens didn't support this, so you could only see the scientific developments of 8 opponents, even when playing with 16 or 32 civs. Same with diplomacy, you could only contact the first 8 players in the game, regardless of the number of players. Expect this sort of stuff in Civ3 as well...

Ah! This is making more and more sense. I understand now. Never played CTP, so my lack of experience there is showing. Thanks! Actually, this sounds like bad news to me, but at least I understand it!

Jeje2 · July 29, 2001, 12:41

First thanks to Apolyton for this interview and to Jeff Morris for giving answers tosome of the hottest questions.

Just read it and feel like a complete jackass...
It's been a while since Irad something like this. Was there something more I was worried about that wasn't sonfirmed to be just as bad as I had fared...

Beta testing mostly skipped and graphics being the worst ones...
Then an internal deadline (Was it october?)

I'll think I do somewere to melt this down...
Although it was good that FIRAXIS talked finally, I still feel as hit in the head... (So much for my good news.)

Hopefully FIRAXIS will then make 10 patches before moving on.

ASHBERY76 · July 29, 2001, 12:43

MOO3

Ming · July 29, 2001, 12:59

I was thrilled with his honest answers...
NO game has been perfect when it is first released. Expecting CivIII to be bug free is just plain wishful thinking.
I'm sure they will support the game longer than CtPII got supported, and that's what's really important.

They got the first patch out fast for CIV MPG, and corrected most of the early complaints. I'm sure they will do the same for CivIII.

I still plan on buying the game the first day it comes out.

Keep on Civin'

MORON · July 29, 2001, 13:05

YES, MOO 3

MarkG · July 29, 2001, 13:12

Jeje, do ALL games with limited number of bugs went though public testing? i dont think so....

in the very end, why do you care if civ3 will be compatible with all the systems of the world? get the demo and if it works well on your computer go and buy it. if it has problems, feel free to say whatever you want. but condemning the game at this point....

Urban Ranger · July 29, 2001, 13:14

After what I read about MoO 3 I felt a lot of hot air and an impossible job for the programming team. Expect a Outpost style fiasco.

I am rather annoyed about the Firaxis' inability to thoroughly test the game before shipping it. It's all Yin's fault for suggesting SidGolf.

*Forms a lynching mob to hunt down Yin*

Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS · July 29, 2001, 13:45

A quick clarification.

I'm not saying the game will be buggy because of not doing a open public beta. We're running a test plan specifically calibrated to catch the bugs that shipped in SMAC. In addition, while I'm sure an open public beta would help product compatibility, we've got two things in our favor. First, JACKAL (our game library) has been used in 4 shipped products so we know most of it's quirks. Second, Infogrames' compatability lab used be a company called PCTest, who specialized in this type of testing. We've done one of the three runs planned on the schedule and I've been very impressed with their lab diversity.

Compatibility testing would be the main benefactor of a public beta, not general bug fixing. Just because you can't blue sky everything, doesn't mean you simply give up. Civ III will be a very clean release.

Jeff

SerapisIV · July 29, 2001, 14:00

Thanks for all the answers, unlike a lot of people here, I have faith in the game being damn good.

Now that you're here Jeff, is Elvis in Civ3 or do I have to download a mod to get the King?

Jon Miller · July 29, 2001, 14:04

Thank you Jeff

That is what I thought

I plan on purchasing (and prepurchasing) Civ3 and getting it the day it comes out

what people don't realise is that this is a large stride (sure hte graphics could be a little better, particularly the roads on mountains), particularly if the AI is better (as well as pathfinding and other algorithims)

Jon Miller