July 30, 2001, 16:09
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#1
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Warlord
Local Time: 05:57
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 107
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nationalism
As far as I've heard a new nationalism model is being added to civ3 (old news). But from what I heard it is going to be a purely economic model. With it you can set if your civ's economy is in a war state, peace state, or normal state. If it is at war it builds units faster but improvements slower and vice versa with peace. Normal is.... you guessed it, normal. Now shouldn't nationalism be represented on the battlefield too? Not just at home. Nationalism in the troops of a country has played a major role in countless wars ever since the first nation rose. WW2 is a perfect example. The germans had fervent nationalism implaced by hitler and they conquered most of europe. The British fought against horrible odds and were able to defend their homeland. The Soviets fought with heavy losses against a superior enemy force with determined tenacity. America's nationalism was obvious at home where their industry geared up to amazing heights and they fought two enemies on two fronts. I was thinking that maybe you should have a nationalism rating that is related to your culture, government, and so on. This would then effect to the experience level your troops are built with (plus exp. from barracks, airports, etc...). Thats assuming that experience in Civ3 is similar to the experience in SMAC (for those of you who dont know much about SMAC, there were many levels of soldier experience each higher level raising a unit's attack and defense by a certain percentage). This sounds like a good idea, or is it just me?
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July 30, 2001, 16:23
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#2
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Chieftain
Local Time: 11:57
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The Black Country
Posts: 83
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Re: nationalism
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Rommel393
The germans had fervent nationalism implaced by hitler and they conquered most of europe.
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You'll need a propaganda mechanism.
__________________
Art is a science having more than seven variables.
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July 30, 2001, 18:28
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#3
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Emperor
Local Time: 06:57
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: flying too low to the ground
Posts: 4,625
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nationalism also does stuff to city disorders.
the 5 GERMANS in berlin will outweigh the 1 FRENCH GUY and cause a scene under french rule.
this makes it harder to conquer enemy cities and hold them, especially KEY cities.
(every population point is given a nationality, if u capture berlin and its a 4, all 4 people are GERMAN. if the city grows, the new pop point is French.)
__________________
"I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
- Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
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July 30, 2001, 20:31
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#4
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King
Local Time: 04:57
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,747
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Not only should a great culture help you handle a conquered, big city but so should have a big military in that city. I think for every unit in that city it would counterpart one German guy (referring to UberKrux's example). I'm not really sure how this would work because I don't even know the basics (haven't played Civ3 yet) of the nationalsim system.
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However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.
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July 30, 2001, 21:00
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#5
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Warlord
Local Time: 05:57
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 107
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Recurve: I agree with you on the propaganda machine and I have been hoping Firaxis puts some form of propaganda control in Civ3.
Ubercrux: Also, a good idea. I've heard of it before. Did Firaxis say that was in or is it just conjecture? 
Techwins: Your right but I don't think a strong military should be able to control all of the citizens. Maybe, after 3 units control 3 "germans" there would be no way to further control the other germans. This would symbolize the fact that there are way more civilians in a city than soldiers and are impossible to completely control.
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July 30, 2001, 21:08
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#6
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King
Local Time: 04:57
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,747
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Yeah, the military shouldn't be able to control a city like you said. There should be some cap number on when the military becomes ineffective. I think maybe it should only be 2 units for every citizen, to demonstrate how hard it is to control a citizen. I also think if a police station is in the city it should help keep things under control as well as doing it's normal function.
UberKrux's statement has been confirmed, I believe.
__________________
However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.
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July 30, 2001, 23:02
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#7
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Warlord
Local Time: 05:57
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 107
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That should add a unique twist...... 
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July 31, 2001, 04:32
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#8
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King
Local Time: 13:57
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: appendix of Europe
Posts: 1,634
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hm culture,
arguably french culture is one of the worlds' greatest. yet germans occupied paris in WW2, everyone collaborated and had a jolly good time and the infamous 'resistance' was invented for movies and 'alo alo'...
it is actually harder to conquer less developed people, especially very religious ones. rich guys get along fine in any system and type of government, it is the lower classes that really try to get the occupying forces out. this said, i do not care about realism as long as anything they implement is properly balanced 
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July 31, 2001, 05:12
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#9
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Chieftain
Local Time: 13:57
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: and a Finnish Assassin in Time.
Posts: 51
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The problem with French was that they had very bad morale. Government had made some very bad moves before the war, that lowered the overall morale. Of course, there was also a problem with the Maginot line (it wasn't done to the Belgium border...), so it didn't help like it should and would've. But, French morale in factories and at the front was very poor, so they were far from their given potential because of the stupid government.
As for the exact counterpart, we in Finland fought off Soviet first invasion, because of many Soviet errors and with high morale. All our fallens were buried to their home towns (we were the only country to do that), our government had built up the social system, so we had something to defend and so on. In other words, morale was the thing that enabled us to stop Soviet invasion at Winter War and again do so at Continuation War (with new German equipment shipments of course, but that's an other story).
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July 31, 2001, 05:30
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#10
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King
Local Time: 13:57
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: appendix of Europe
Posts: 1,634
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Mech Assassin
The problem with French was that they had very bad morale. Government had made some very bad moves before the war, that lowered the overall morale. Of course, there was also a problem with the Maginot line (it wasn't done to the Belgium border...), so it didn't help like it should and would've. But, French morale in factories and at the front was very poor, so they were far from their given potential because of the stupid government.
As for the exact counterpart, we in Finland fought off Soviet first invasion, because of many Soviet errors and with high morale. All our fallens were buried to their home towns (we were the only country to do that), our government had built up the social system, so we had something to defend and so on. In other words, morale was the thing that enabled us to stop Soviet invasion at Winter War and again do so at Continuation War (with new German equipment shipments of course, but that's an other story).
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continiuation war? i thought it was called 'northern flank of barbarossa' )
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