Why is Warriors Code bad?

[Like2frolick]

Hello. I've seen some people talking about how Warriors code is a bad thing. Uhm.

Why? Warriors Code lets you build archers, which are good all the way up until Gunpowder as a defensive unit, and up to Knight as an Offensive unit.

So, why's Warrior code bad?

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I dunno. I think nukes are cool..If you're the only one who has em.

[Like2frolick]

Ohhh! COOOOOL! My Smileys have Santa-Hats!




8)
:>)

:/

[finbar]

Warrior Code is also a stepping stone to Feudalism, pikemen and Sun Tzu. In itself, it's not bad. People usually complain about it when they get it out of a hut before Monarchy, delaying the progress to Monarchy.

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Founder, ACS Pedantry Institute
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[Richard Bruns]

It is a matter of timing. Every tech you recieve slows down your tech progress, sometimes dramatically. Any tech you get before Monarchy can double the time it takes to get that vital technology. The extra turns in despotism can hurt your civ a lot.

If it is important to get to some tech ASAP, any tech not on that tech path will slow the progress and hurt you, even if it is a good tech you might need later.

[Ming]

quote: Originally posted by Ribannah on 12-02-2000 12:21 PM Warrior Code is a special case, however. If you get it too early, many important techs of later era's (eg Automobile, Computers) will show up as research options much later than they otherwise would, or will disappear for a while if you don't pick them immediately (Flight).

Can you prove this???? I've never heard of this before, not even from Xin Yu

[carnide_]

yes, I'm also looking for a proof. Never saw it before.

[oedo]

I don´t think that warrior code is relevant in any way for the late techs. I tested a couple of tech trees now and I didn´t find anything unusual on warrior code. as far as I can say now it doesn´t matter at all what time you are researching certain techs (including WC). the availability of the late(r) techs will always be the same.

when I get WC early I can rushbuy the 3rd row in the shield box. this is good for neurotic micromanagers like me and that´s why I like it . however I usually don´t research it, it always comes along, somehow.

[Mercantile]

In agreement with Oedo here , WC is good for that third row in the box for churning settlers if you don't have writing first that is

What are these rumours i hear about navigation and was it WC that can mess up your tech choices? It was in another thread and i don't remember what the tech was or why it causes problems?

Archers are good for attacking that early barb threat, on terrain that is more defensive than offensive minded, ie on forests hills etc as opposed to plains and grass. Sometimes a Phalanx just doesn't cut it.

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Do you shovel snow in your birkenstocks?

[Ribannah]

quote: Originally posted by Ming on 12-02-2000 01:00 PM Can you prove this???? I've never heard of this before, not even from Xin Yu

At the moment I have no save file to provide absolute proof (I probably had from one of the OCC games, but I do empty the trash bin now and then ).

It has been reported by several OCC-ers though.
Navigation seems to have a similar effect if it comes too soon.

What I don't know is what exactly is "too soon". Having Warrior Code as a free tech at the beginning is very likely to be BAD - it still depends on the other techs you have.

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Ribannah]

quote: Originally posted by finbar on 12-02-2000 05:27 AM People usually complain about it when they get it out of a hut before Monarchy, delaying the progress to Monarchy.

Warrior Code is a special case, however. If you get it too early, many important techs of later era's (eg Automobile, Computers) will show up as research options much later than they otherwise would, or will disappear for a while if you don't pick them immediately (Flight).



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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[rah]

Getting warrior code early for me has usually been the double wammy. Not only does it slow down getting to monarchy, it usually screws up the selection and makes me choose an extra tech before i can choose monarchy. It usually means not getting to monarchy prior to 2250 of not later.

RAH

But if you get it a little later, good for working towards the academy in MP games.

[Jim W]

quote: Originally posted by rah on 12-03-2000 03:08 AM Getting warrior code early for me has usually been the double wammy. Not only does it slow down getting to monarchy, it usually screws up the selection and makes me choose an extra tech before i can choose monarchy. It usually means not getting to monarchy prior to 2250 of not later. RAH But if you get it a little later, good for working towards the academy in MP games.

Two questions: How early is too early? (or how late is soon enough?) As I recall it, you need Warrior's Code to get Bridge Building, and you need Bridge Building to make road-building really worth while.

Second question, is Warrior's Code the only one that can have deleterious effects if you get it too soon? Should one simply concentrate on getting all the "first row" techs, then go on to the "second row (which will be first by then)?

Yeah, that's three questions but I know you're a nice easygoing lot.

Jim W

[Scouse Gits]

Undocumented support for Ribannah ...

There is 'certainly' some effect - would not like to pin it to early WC necessarily, but that does tally with my experience - that leads to VERY unseemly delays later in the tech tree and in particular the effect that Rib notes in passing the 'once off' appearance of Flight - which we OCCers will probably spurn - only to find it doesn't reappear for a zillion years or so.

Yes this needs testing - possibly another Urban Myth (but then in another thread someone was dismissing starting with MapMaking as an Urban Myth - and we have documentary evidence of that one!)



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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

[rah]

Jim,
1 too early is anytime before Monarchy.
2.(too late?) In MP games, if I'm playing agressive players, Feudalism is a high priority, so anytime after Monarchy if good.
3. No its not the only one. Check out Odeo's new thread. He may have struck more gold.

RAH

Warrior code is bad because of Pearl Habour.


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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

To whoever said Warrior Code is bad,

[rah]

quote: Originally posted by IamSlowwHand on 12-04-2000 11:19 PM To whoever said Warrior Code is bad,

Best Smiley of the season. Who gets the credit? You or Odeo.

RAH

[oedo]

well, I gave him a christmas cap

[Jing]

How are the tech choices decided anyway? I am asking because I came to Civ2 by way of Freeciv, and in Freeciv, there is no resitriction to what tech you can research as long as it is immediately available in the tech tree. I am interested in finding out how exactly it is done in Civ2 so that Freeciv can be further improved. Thanks in advance.

[Sequoya]

Jing,

See thread "odeo's unfinished".

[Jing]

Thanks a lot, Sequoya. That's exactly what I was looking for.

[The Capo]

I dislike the micromanagers that obsess over stupid crap.

But whatever.

AH is GigaTroll Now? ROTFLMAO!!

[Matthew]

I just ran a test. Researching Warrior Code when a monarchy pre requisite didn't appear didn't require that I get any additional techs before Monarchy.

I generally go for Bronze Working as my first non- monarchy tech because it provides for defense, allows me to start a wonder, and is en route to Trade. But archers have the advantage of being able to attack that barb that just landed as well as defense. On the down side they cost more than phalanxes, and early on I want to spend shields on settlers.

But archers can be a heck of a lot of fun when the nearest civ decided to go for writing or pottery as their first non-monarchy tech.

[Ming]

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 12-09-2000 12:29 PM If you allow the Barb Archer to attack with its strike power of THREE - most of the time your Phalanx is toast!

Well, that is assuming he is non fortified and sitting out on a grassland or other defenseless square.
Fortified on any kind of defensive terrain, and I'll bet on the phalanx winning most of the time

[Mercantile]

i have to agree with ming here, on decent defensive terrain and fortified , the phalanx almost always wins, unless its that legendary superbarbarian

However even a fortified phalanx in a city on grass has problems with barb archers.

In double production, there really is no point in building any city that isn't on some sort of defensive terrain. Its not like there is a growth problem

[Caesar the Great]

What I love doing... putting a warrior in a city, turning on cheats, on raging hordes, giving myself all techs and watching the barb howies die to my sole warrior mwhahahahaha!

[Scouse Gits]

I much prefer Horseback Riding as the first non-monarchy tech. True it has no wonder attached, but the ability to chase the Barb King for the 150 gold is invaluable.

Also - as Dave V has said many times - the Barb Archer only has a defence of ONE. If you allow the Barb Archer to attack with its strike power of THREE - most of the time your Phalanx is toast!

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SG (2)

[Blaupanzer]

Caesar,
You need a life.