King Level

[The Andy-Man]

To put it simple, i find prince very easy, but King very hard- i can just about keep up with science rate, but i never seem to be able to build Leo's or MC's. And without those, you are virtually screwwed (her comes my enemies howitzer verses my lil phalanx)

I was wondering if any one could give me a hand on getting a decent early science rate and a good production (on lower levels, there seems to be less need to have massive prductivty early on, so i am not to used to getting it )

[Scouse Gits]

TRADE - whether you play at Deity/King or any other level.

After Monarchy you must research Trade for two reasons:

1) Commodity caravans will boost your science and gold with the delivery bonus AND give you extra wealth with the routes.

2) Building wonders with caravans is easier and more efficient - especially when you use incremental buying.

For early science pay attention to the terrain around your early cities. If you can afford it, make sure you use the trade specials like silk and spice. Roads help as they create trade arrows on many tiles and help you connect your empire. Ensure you found cities near trade specials. An early city on a gold mountain can help you race through the first few techs.

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SG(2)

[Marquis de Sodaq]

If you just want to speed research, any square with more arrows is good, even at the expense of food. In the early game, check F6 for your turns per tech. Change a worker or two per city to ocean or trade specials. Check F6 again - the turns per tech drops quickly! This can make a big difference in the long run. Don't shy away from trading techs with friendly AIs. You can often acquire useful techs this way, without giving them anything that will harm you.

[The Andy-Man]

i now of the importance of trade, but thx for the extra help, i just build cities as long as there is grassland nearby, i will have tyo change that stragegimy ow

and about haveing massinve production early on...

[fittstim]

Yes, trade is VERY important to establish early on. Not only will it give you extra money but you can use the caravans to rush build the wonders. However...

don't underestimate the power of the diplomat. For the price of TGL, you can build 10 diplomats. Not only can you steal techs but dips have a move of 2 and ignore ZOC. The drawbacks are that they can be expelled and/or destroyed very easily. But stacked dips can not be expelled. Keeping two dips stacked is a very effective means of exploring AND getting new techs. Remember that you don't lose your dip if you try and steal techs but "no new techs are found".

Also, don't forget to "ask to exchange knowledge". Ask every civ you have contact with every turn. And don't forget to demand tribute - every turn. These are a few ways that you can keep up with the AI in terms of techs.

[ColdWizard]

for production:

1. play mp and turn on 2x production

2. mined oil produces a lot of shields (and even more w/ railroad)

3. mine coal and iron specials (and later build rails)

4. whales are good for shield and trade

5. money = production (rush buying)

6. and as mentioned for wonders: CARAVANS and lots of them. if you ever have trouble deciding what to build in a city, build a caravan.

7. for later stages put in factories, power plants and offshore platforms

[Jay Bee]

2) Building wonders with caravans is easier and more efficient - especially when you use incremental buying.

Tsk, tsk, tsk can't you guys win w/o taking advantage of tricks like that! I mean, that may be fine for OCC, and highly recommended for MP, but for single player.....

[Edward]

Jay Bee,

As a reformed incremental buyer, I'll agree with you, Jay Bee. However, if one is having problems on King level then I'd say most anything is fair game.


The Andy-Man,

Building wonders in time does take a decent research rate. I think your production problems can be solved with more directed building as opposed to more shield working.

As Scouse Gits suggests, make sure all your worked plains, grassland, river, and trade special squares have roads if you aren't doing this already.

As Marquis de Sodaq suggests, you can bump up your trade by changing your worked squares to ones with more arrows. This can be particularly effective as a temporary run for a contested wonder tech. And if you have some cities with 5 or more citizens, you can temporarily make Einsteins to boost your science even more. This is particularly effective in your SSC. (Just make sure to switch back after you discover the timely tech. Otherwise your growth will suffer.)

I assume you've heard of the Super Science City (SSC). Building up one city as a beaker powerhouse early does wonders for your research rate. Anything it needs to be happy, smart, and well fed is more important than any other goal (expansion and research included). Note that even low luxuries can make the SSC celebrate in Monarchy giving you Republic arrows in that city.

In seeming opposition to the previous paragraph, don't build anything (especially city improvements) in your (non-SSC) cities that you don't absolutely need. At the lower levels you can build most anything, but to keep up at higher levels you need to be lean. (Note: This is coming from an expansionistic monarch. If you prefer small civs with big cities then you will need to look into an early Republic and careful city improvement selection.)

If you're generally behind in wonder building - follow Scouse Gits' and ColdWizard's advice. You need 3 routes from your SSC ASAP, but otherwise you should save caravans for wonders until you're sufficiently ahead in the wonder race to use them for trade routes. If you're researching a tech that will provide a wonder, all your cities should already be making caravans to build it. There's no harm in bumping up your tax rate (to buy caravans) at the expense of science if you don't think you'll have all the needed caravans on the turn of discovery.

fittstim's advice on trading techs is right on. In the early years I find the AI is eager to trade techs and there's no secret tech who's revelation will let the AI destroy you. Since early techs are very plentiful and cheap, early wonders are build by whoever starts building first and has a lot of caravans, not by the "smartest" civ. Even the most uncivilized civ will start out with some techs you need. With many embassies (or Marco Polo's Embassy) you can see who knows what. Keeping an eye on AI research will also tell you when you can concentrate on expansion/infrastructure and when you need to plow full steam on caravans and wonder technology.

In order to be first to the Leonardo's Workshop/Michaelangelo's Cathedral techs, you need to make sure your tech path is lean. You can't research non-wonder-path techs that are merely useful. What your exact path is depends on your style of play and desired wonders. If you need specific advice, Apolytoners love talking about tech trees.

Depending on what version of Civ2 you play, fittstim's demand tribute advice is very powerful. The AI has no concept of the value of money. You can get hundreds of coins from them. If you have an embassy, check to make sure they have 50-100 or more gold before you ask. There's nothing worse than asking for gold and getting a useless tech.

[The Andy-Man]

i am the kind of person that likes a perfectionist republic/demorcrocy latly. and base my game on happy people more then military.

on prince though, this means people sighning anti agression pacts, and on king it means discovering literacy whilst someone is completeing Leo's.

[fittstim]

Does this mean that you are against bribing cities???

The added bonus of bribing a city is that you can chose any tech they have that you don't have as well.

Also, even if you are playing as a perfectionist/democracy, you need to keep expanding your empire otherwise the AI certainly will.

Your research rate and tax income improve as the number of cities increase (see ICS posts). So if you're just sitting back and developing your few cities while the Aztecs have already gone through Iztapam and have just founded Naples, then you're setting yourself up for defeat.

[The Andy-Man]

i normally just build 2 sttlers per city (1st to found another, 2nd to improve land) and keep doing this untill there is no room left whereever i am.

i also build cities of shore to, so city amounts is not a problem.

and i do bribe cities

[Ecthy]

a few words about the trade thing:

I completely agree that using caravans is a valuable and almost necessary method to achieve the quick construction of helpful wonders

I tend to play on Deity level as well as King level when I feel like it, yet I almost NEVER use caravans for trading with other civilizations... it's just not worth the effort to me

Really, I just can't be arsed to build the caravans and ships, as well as to explore the world sufficiently, things I need to do in order to trade in an efficient way . Same about building up military, BTW.

Even on Deity, I end up being the 'best' civilization, often also one of the most powerful ones. Yet my military as well as my trading activity are very weak points of my playing. I'm sure I could do a lot better if I spent more concentration on both foreign trading and building up military, but those things are just too annoying (concerning the effort you need to spend on them) that I would even bother using them.... BTW, the military thing has often been the cause of nice war stories

[The Andy-Man]

yeah. military can been an anoyance (as nice as a big fleet of battleships, packed carriers qand transprts is). especially early on, because by the time uyou have a considerable force, its eitherr obselete ior some one just sdiscovered automobile

I mean, destroyers are worthless within 2 techs (or someone getting to steel).

and i agree with the trade thig, even though i do put a caraven or 2 on a boat when i send a swettler out early on

[Ecthy]

Yeah, it is definitely helpful when done in the right way and over a distance long enough . Yet I don't, which makes each game more of a challenge for me, which can be fun, too

it's just no fun when the enemy conquers your capital with engineer because you sent all of your army (5 riflemen, 3 artillery for 20 cities) to the front

really, if you concentrate your firepower, such a small army is enough to beat the biggest enemy empires... it just doesn't suffice to prevent enemy landings...

[The Andy-Man]

dont forget the barb uprisings

[Ecthy]

yeah, if they approach a smallcity of size 5, they say things like "give us all your money (Gold 50,000,000) or we will rape all children under age 12 in that city"... if they get to one of your really big things, they just take it without asking

[EOL]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
To put it simple, i find prince very easy, but King very hard- i can just about keep up with science rate, but i never seem to be able to build Leo's or MC's. And without those, you are virtually screwwed (her comes my enemies howitzer verses my lil phalanx)

You can help yourself by slowing down the AI research of key techs by giving them any useless techs you have picked up too. They will also love you for it. .

[Ecthy]

hmm... I think that only works for a few of the enemy civs... as soon as there are generally smaller differences between the civs' amounts of researched technologies, the research time decreases, globally. so giving too many civs too many techs is definitely helpful for you, but it might also be helpful for them

[EOL]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
hmm... I think that only works for a few of the enemy civs... as soon as there are generally smaller differences between the civs' amounts of researched technologies, the research time decreases, globally. so giving too many civs too many techs is definitely helpful for you, but it might also be helpful for them

If they've just started researching Invention and you give them a host of other techs the number of beakers that they require for invention will increase since they have already then 'researched' a larger number of techs. If you can push them over the 20 tech barrier you can give yourself as many as 5 or 6 extra turns space due to their poor research rates. If they don't have republic, and you give them that, their research and production can sometimes shut down completely. This is because if they change to republic they can't keep their towns happy (so don't produce science or shields) and they have to support all the excessive military they seem to produce, completely nullifying any effect of the doubled arrows - despite all their cheats.

[Ecthy]

I... see...

[EOL]

In general, the more techs a civ has the more the next will cost. There is a large jump after you have acquired 20 techs. Give them extra techs and the beaker cost of whatever they are researching will increase, perhaps dramatically.

[Ecthy]

yeah, I knew that before, and it seems that now it all makes sense... giving them tech, aha, yeah... but ... no... or? well, I'm sure you know what you're talking about, so I'll "take you by the word" (if that makes sense in english )

[Edward]

i am the kind of person that likes a perfectionist republic/demorcrocy latly. and base my game on happy people more then military.

on prince though, this means people sighning anti agression pacts, and on king it means discovering literacy whilst someone is completeing Leo's.

Even without a strong military there are (at least) two very different approaches.

A) "peaceful expansionist"
Here you try to become great by way of having a lot of cities. You're going to expand (by settling) to fill all available space with your cities. One could consider ISC a form of this, but I'm thinking of avoiding war as much as possible, allowing cities enough space to grow in the late game, and having a SSC.

If you go this route, an early Republic will kill your expansion because settlers suddenly eat 2 food. (Communism is good for expansion but comes much later in the game.) You'll definitely want civ-wide happiness wonders because you'll have small cities (until the late game when you build them up) with no improvements (so you can concentrate your resources on building settler after settler). Settlers become a form of happiness control because anywhere there's an entertainer (and enough food) - you build a settler (instead of a temple or martial law unit) and your city's happy again with a lower pop. You should consider delaying terrain improvement (except roads between cities which are very important) in favor of founding new cities.

B) "perfectionist"
Here you try to become powerful by way of having large cities. You'll intentionally stop yourself at 8 or so cities to avoid the riot factor and to grow them earlier. Depending on your map size, 20 or so cities might be "perfectionistic."

If you go this route, Republic is your best friend since it 1) gives you more arrows and a higher potential science rate; and 2) it lets you grow your cities quickly via "We Love" days. You'll need to predict your happiness and aqueduct improvement needs to time "We Love" correctly. Your increased city size means city improvements are much more effective than in strategy A. It also means caravans pull in a lot more money & science per delivery. It think you'll find that with an early Republic and strong trade, you won't be left in the dust science-wise. In fact a similar strategy is used by early AC landers for whom rapid research is very important. You will need well placed fortresses for protection from your large neighbors. You'll also want plenty of terrain improvements to keep up with your large neighbors' production.

[cpemma]

...republic ...research and production can sometimes shut down completely.

I just hit that problem, an early switch to republic, shields way down and everything slowed. Let the AI get ahead so I lost the race for Mike and Newton.

So is there an optimum figure for shields, supported units, etc. when a switch (from Monarchy to Republic) is beneficial? Or should I wait & go straight to Democracy?

btw, I'm a "peaceful expansionist" (till I get an Howitzer)

[reds4ever]

whether to skip republic and go staight to democracy is an interesting question IMHO if you are playing 2x2x or 2x1x you should always go to republic as the double production offsets the unit support costs, but on 1x1x when your cities are small and theres still plenty of real estate up for grabs i don't usually bother but i'm sure others will have different opions

[Jay Bee]

The unit support cost is what refrains me from getting into Republic too early. This is one strategy aspect I still have to polish a bit. I do not seem to be able to crank up settlers quick enough under Republic.

I feel so comfortable with being a Monarchic Despot that I rarely switch to Republic before getting into Democracy.

Comments, suggestions?

[fittstim]

I agree.

Avoid Repub at all costs and wait for Dem. Only in rare cases where my tech rate is so lame do I feel the need to switch to this "intermediate" government.

[EOL]

You might consider getting to Monotheism quickly, building Mike's Chapel and then switching to Republic/Demo. If you already have a couple foreign trade routes (per city) or a marketplace you will probably be able to grow your cities straight up to size 8 or further with 30-40% lux. No more production problems. Your SSC can balloon in size with a couple of other improvements. Even without an SSC you can get low research times with 20 size 8 cities. Especially putting libraries in a couple of the better trade producers.

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by fittstim
I agree.

Avoid Repub at all costs and wait for Dem. Only in rare cases where my tech rate is so lame do I feel the need to switch to this "intermediate" government.

that's crap... you'd have to wait for democracy way too long... go for republic early and hope the barbs won't get too annoying... of course, you have to bother with building enough roads and Mike's before changing to republic... HG can be helpful for going into republic early.

[The Andy-Man]

go into repub asap, the production thing isnt a problem after a few 'we love the babe days'

problem with the nicve hilly terrein thing is that after to many we love the babe days, evry where begins to starve at size 24