List of units in Civ3 based on screen shots

[KrazyHorse]

One I'm not sure of are the Mongols, but it appears to be their special-trained horse archer, Mangudai, acting as a destroyer.

Maybe if the Mongols were in the game this would be an interesting question.

[korn469]

ok here is a new screen shot

http://www.civ3.com/images/screenshots/citymgt.jpg

if you look closely this shot confirms some unit statistics

it confirms that the bronze working unit is indeed the spearmen (which is the base unit with the hoplite/phalanx being the greek unique)

spearman 1-2-1 cost 20
catapult 0(4)-0-1 cost 20

the (4) must mean that it has a bombard strength of 4 and that bombard probably works just like it did in SMAC

however notice that they still hadn't replaced the old civ2 heads with the new civ3 heads yet so this screen shot might be fairly old, but most likely unit statistics have changed little since then

so i'm going to predict that a hoplite is an improved spearman 2-2-1 and an impi is 1-2-2

[korn469]

ok i updated the list since firaxis announced the war chariot, i also put up unit stats for the first time...

ok for my next prediction, since the archer, spearman, and chariot were all variations on a theme: 2.1.1, 1.2.1, 1.1.2
i suspect that the horseman and swordman will also be variations on a theme...since we know that the swordman is 3.2.1, by rearranging the numbers some that means that the horseman would be 3.1.2...the other two possibilities are 2.1.2 and 4.1.2, with 2.1.2 seeming a little underpowered and 4.1.2 seeming a little overpowered

[Chris_Nightwing]

That picture of a 'phalanx' that someone linked to on apolyton isn't! It looks to me like the aztec unit, probably a variation on swordsman or spearman.

[Jusbaummer]

They have screenshots of units in here apolyton too, but they seem to have Arab and Mongol special units too, and neither of the civs is in the game...?

[korn469]

in the newest civ of the week we learn that the hoplite is a 1.3.1 unit...i guess 2.2.1 so i was wrong but oh well

at 1.3.1 for the hoplite this means that the greeks will have wonderful defense so it seems like because they are scientific/commercial they can wall themselves up...just imagine attacking a three unit army of hoplites in a city with walls...it would be nearly impossible in the ancient age to win against that

if anyone has any new screen shots please post them here

[korn469]

firaxis just revealed a new CSU, the chinese Rider unit, it replaces the kinght for the chinese and is available with Chivalry. the Rider has impressive stats gaining a +1 to both defense and movement bringing its stats to 4.4.3, so the chinese will have a great defender and a powerful attacker because of it's high movement. from what we have seen it appears that the french CSU the musketeer (which is in the middle ages also) will only be 3.4.1, however we do not know about hitpoints, firepower, or cost of the units, so the musketeer might be a better all around unit. it appears that the chinese will be a tough opponent in the early midgame. if the chinese can secure the special resources they need i can easily see chinese players launching a midgame blitzkrieg which although the Rider might not be strong enough to dislodge well fortified troops thee extra movement points for the Rider will allow it to cause havok on an opponent's road system and there for their unit production, happiness, and trade

[Alfonsus72]

Doesn´t phalanx and hoplites need Bronze?
And musketeers powder?

As far as I know, Bronze could be a resource. I´ve never seen powder in any resource list.

[Alfonsus72]

Originally posted by korn469

so it looks like civ3 will have either the same amount or one new military units, and five less non military units, for a net loss of maybe as many as four units total (but the nonmilitary units still might be in the game, just not on the tech tree yet, and things are always subject to change)

again if i got something wrong just tell me

I guess caravan/freigther are out, and commerce is now based on "trade networks", so have to build roads, ports and airports and stablish good diplomatic relationships in order to commerce.

Don´t know what will happen to diplomat/spy, but I guess that they could be also out of the game map, so probably embasies come automatically at contact (or with some tehcnology or small wonder, really don´t know). And what about spying and bribing?. No clue.

[Harlan]

In another thread, http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=25474, I have a graphical blowup of the unit under military tradition. Seen in zoom, it clearly shows itself to be cavalry unit of some sort.

Perhaps zooms of the other mystery units could show something new.

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by Harlan
In another thread, http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=25474, I have a graphical blowup of the unit under military tradition. Seen in zoom, it clearly shows itself to be cavalry unit of some sort.

Perhaps zooms of the other mystery units could show something new.

I think you have resized it more then possible
I can't make anything out of that (more then three legs and a shadow.) Did I just say three legs? That must be an animal then. Or am I mistaking myself due to the big size.

Let me tell you; I have no idea whenever it is a horse or not. (FIRAXIS: Give us a better picture, or tell us what this unit is)

[faded glory]

Does somebody have a Screenshot of the Battleship and Destroyers? I have yet to see those...

[Kestrel]

ajbera said

I think it's almost certain that within a couple months of Civ3's release, someone will offer a mod that adds the missing units from Civ2, restructures and expands the tech tree, adds the missing wonders, etc. Of course, this is all conditional on the editing tools being as flexible as Firaxis claims, but mark my words - you'll see the mod within 2 months.

Based on what I have seeen so far, I've already started planning it !

Still waiting to see what the constraints of Civ 3 will be (See my post to FIRAXIS seeking answers for Modmakers) - and still curious as to how many animations from other Civ3 scenarios can be recycled and / or if Civ2-ToT animations can be used (very unlikely I would guess)

[Harlan]

I've figured out what the unit is for the Chivalry tech: the Samurai. Check out this website art, which is reproduced on this thread:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=25713

Its the exact same baggy pants guy, in the exact same pose (reaching for his sword). Does this mean the Samurai is not a special unit (as in CTP)? I don't think so. I think a couple of other special units snuck into the early tech trees that we've seen so far. Look at the ships under Magnetism. There are no less than three, and this comes right on the heels of another ship under Astronomy just two techs back. Furthermore, we know the English special unit is the Man o' War, so it makes perfect sense that one of the three under Magnetism is the English special unit.

Also, it looks to me that Mass Production has two submarines under it, and I recall one preview specifically mentioned the phrase U-Boat, not submarine. Could the U-Boat be the German special unit? Furthermore, one of them is greyish, and the other black, and black is the how U-Boats are typically depicted. But wait, you say, the German special unit is the Panzer tank! We've just seen that the Russian special unit has been changed to the Cossack, so if they changed that one, perhaps they changed the German one too. They probably tried out more than one special unit for several civs, to see which one worked best for playbalance reasons. Or, perhaps the Germans have two special units. If you don't get your special unit until very late in the game, perhaps you're entitled to special compensation (could the Americans be getting the F-15 AND the Abrams tank, another graphic we've seen?).

PS- Gramphos, you did see three legs! Doesn't anyone else see that (the horse unit under Military Tradition)? With there being one horse unit there, that would make sense as the place for the Cossack to be, and there's blank spots for it. Which makes me think: every special unit has been like a regular unit, plus some extra stats, so what would the Samurai be like, if its the only unit under Chivalry? Maybe it isn't a special unit after all. Also, with Chivalry a technological dead-end, it couldn't be a tech just for the Japanese - it has to be a general unit.

Sorry for changing my mind mid-post - I'm thinking as I type. Special unit or not, its a picture of a Samurai.

[korn469]

well we have two new CSUs the Persian Immortal and the Indian War Elephant.

Immortal 4.2.1
The Persian Immortal replaces the swordman (Iron Working) and has upgraded attack ability, giving the persians a heavy hitter. The Immortal will require iron to build. I don't see any special strategies the Immortal would provide, but it would still give the Persians an advantage in the ancient era.

War Elephant 4.3.2
The Indian War Elephant replaces the knight (Chivalry), and though its stats are not upgraded it has one huge advantage, that being the War Elephant doesn't require any special resources to build, unlike the knight which requires both Iron and Horses. So this would mean that the Indians could establish forward bases outside of their trade grid which could build War Elephants, it would also lower the effect that raids against the Indian road network would have on them, and lastly the Indians could use the extra special resources as trade items. One last advantage would be a resource poor map wouldn't effect the Indians.

Has anyone else noticed that both the Chinese Rider and the Indian War Elephant which are Middle Ages units received two upgrades while all of the units from the Ancient Era only received one upgrade? Does the epoch your CSU comes in determine how many upgrades it will get? For example will the F-15 receive four upgrades?

Harlan

i think you need to get an eye check up

but seriously

under Mass Production, the first unit is an aircraft carrier, the second unit is a submarine, and the third unit is a battleship

there will only be one CSU per civ, and i don't think the CSU are represented by either pictures or blank spaces in any of the tech charts we have seen

[faded glory]

Me thinks the abrams graphic is not a special unit. Its the 'Modern tank' before the early tank. Not an American special unit

I could be wrong But thats how I understand it

[SerapisIV]

I agree, (was it the gameplay video?) one of the recent releases showed the advanced armor attacking. The unit was the abrams. Besides that the US has already been said by Firaxis to be the F-15.

The above makes sense as it appears that a lot of the generic unit icons are modeled on current US military hardware, the stealth fighter, the M2/3 Bradley for the mech infantry and the famous AEGIS cruiser.

[korn469]

faded glory and SerapisIV

i agree with both of you, all civs will only have one CSU and that unit will be the only unit capable of triggering a golden age for that civ

most of the modern units do appear to be based on US military hardware

and a thing about aircraft carriers, how many nations have actually had them (and i'm not talking about helicopter carriers, i'm talking about fixed wing carriers)

US
Japan (during ww2)
UK (fixed wing in ww2, how about now?)
USSR (but only a one or two right, and for the most part small carriers that launch the soviet version of the harrier right?)

any others nations use aircraft carriers?

[faded glory]

USA has 15 active and 11 mothballed. India bought 1 from the Russians. UK has a small carrier with 12 harriers. USA has a monopoly on this. I cant think of any other nation present which has carriers

[korn469]

faded glory

correct me if i am wrong, but doesn't the US also have three new aircraft carriers under construction? i've heard that the are going to try and reduce the crew of the new aircraft carriers and they are going to use a new system to launch aircraft based on rollercoaster technology, instead of the steam catapult

and the US has a complete monopoly on Supercarriers that have the landing deck diagonal to the ship (unlike flat tops in WW2 which had straight landing deck)

so if people are going to say that the abrams is an american CSU, you could fit the Aircraft Carrier and Stealth Bomber into those categories also

does anyone really feel that each civ will have more than one CSU? why is this? Can anyone name three Units that appear to be CSUs for the Persians?

[faded glory]

Yes the reagan was just completed. There are some under construction. America has a monopoly on everything

5,000 modern aircraft (1,900 older aircraft F-4's etc)
3,500 modern howitzers and Arty
400 modern vessels (200 mothballed from 50-70's era)
16 aircraft carriers with 2100 aircraft there own.
7,000 modern tanks M60's and Abrams, plus the new tank under devolopment set to be released in 2010
1.2 million modern troops (2 million Reserves and national guard with leftovers from vietnam)

We are the best

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I dont know much about airplanes, but it seems to me that the f-15 doesnt look that sleek as the MiG. Maybe im wrong, but I always thought that fighter planes looked more along the civ2 stealth fighter/civ3 MiG. To me, the F-15, looks like an obese, old man with no stamina. Also, i thought that there are more modern jets to choose from like the f-16, f/a 18

[gerkenbr]

Only to give some new information to you, Brazil does also have 2 aicraft carrier (active), although very old ones.

1 bought from the english (going into retirement now)
1 bought from the french (Foch I think)

The current naval aviation planes are A-4 Skyhawks, bought from the Saudis (or Kwait? ) second hand.

[ixnay]

Here is the link to the modern screenshot which shows the battleship + stats and tanks sitting on all of the cities.

[korn469]

Kyller

thanks for the link!

so a battleship's stats are

24(8).20.1/4

what does the 1/4 stat mean? does that mean it has 1 of four movement left? i also wonder if they will have the same 100% bonus to land units in an artillary exchange? if they do a cannon (or catapult if FP isn't included) might be able to kill a battleship

also does the sun mean that the battleship is nuclear powered? it looks like it has full health, so why would it's movement be so low?

also those tanks look like mech infantry to me, and that would explain why every city has them

[Harlan]

[Harlan]

I hope that image wasn't too big...

Anyways, I posted that image to show several things. The new BonusWeb tech tree pics are actually extremely old, but show us some new info.

The first and third lines are from the newer screenshots, the second and fourth from the old BonusWeb ones. Korn, I think you're right - the old screenshot shows the one you call an Aircraft Carrier to be an aircraft carrier. Though in my opinion if you just have the first row pic to go on, it could easily be a sub.

So strike one for my eyesight. However, I was right on my speculation that the unit under Military Tradition is a later cavalry unit. Its obviously so in the BonusWeb shot.

Invention clearly shows a later day Archer of some kind.

Something really interesting is happening with Chivalry and Feudalism. I've mentioned elsewhere that the Chivalry unit in the new screenshot looks exactly the same as a Samurai graphic from the Civ3 website. Here you can see them side by side to see what I mean. The unit under Feudalism in the BonusWeb shots is also a Samurai, though a completely different looking one (once again showing they must have lots of unused artwork; look at the different Invention archers as well).

Between the new and old screenshots though, the placement of units has changed a lot around these techs. I don't even know where the Knight is now on the new screenshots - I can't see it anywhere. Yet we know its in the game, so that's more evidence that the new tech tree screenshots are imcomplete. Thus we can't say for a fact where the Knight comes, if its close to Polytheism or not. It could even come with Polytheism, for all we know.

Which brings me to the final image - the Polytheism icon graphic and the War Elephant from the Civ3 site. If those aren't the exact same thing, then I don't know what. Why have the War Elephant pic with the Polytheism tech if the unit doesn't come with it?!? They could just as easily use a different elephant graphic if all they want to do is draw some Polytheism - elephant connection.

Final point. If the Samurai is a general unit, and not unique, then what is the Japanese unique unit? If it is unique, then why is it on the tech tree already, esp. at a "dead end" tech that gives nothing else but this unit? It would make no sense to have the tech give only something the Japanese could benefit from.

[Kestrel]

Any others nations use aircraft carriers?

We (Australia) had one back in the fifties & sixties, but it actually sank more allied ships that enemy ships.

The angled deck, steam catapult, Aircraft Carrier HMAS Melbourne was commissioned in 1955. Originally ordered for the Royal Navy as HMS Majestic, She was purchased by the Australian Government and renamed.

Two collisions, one with an Australian Ship,
One with a U.S. Ship - Many lives lost.

1964
Destroyer HMAS Voyager sunk off NSW coast in collision with aircraft carrier HMAS Melbourne, 82 lives lost in RAN's worst peacetime disaster. All losses from Voyager.

1969
Destroyer USS Frank E. Evans sunk in collision with HMAS Melbourne in Sth China Sea, with loss of 74 lives (all from Evans).

In both cases HMAS Melbourne was cleared of all blame, but she did receive the title "cursed ship" from the general public.

1982
HMAS Melbourne finally decommisoned ("paid off").

1983
Newly elected Labour Government decides not to replace Aircraft Carrier Melbourne.

We basically can't afford a Carrier or the multitude of support ships needed to protect one. Some would argue that Aircraft carriers are only needed where there is a want to 'project' air power away from a nation's shores.

[jsw363]

Could this be the Eagle Warrior, an Aztec UU?
http://apolyton.net/civ3/images/units/screens.shtml

[korn469]

Harlan

there were some larger shots of the tech screens i posted on the first page of this thread, they were at pc.ign, but i can't find them, but those showed the unit under military tradition as being an infantry unit, but your screen shot clearly show it as a gunpowder mounted unit (of which there weren't any until you found that screenshot)

here is an old screenshot where the unit under military tradition looks like an infantry unit
http://civ.strategy-gaming.com/cgi-b.../civ3tech6.jpg

the old unit under feudalism was placeholder art for the pikeman unit, which has appeared in various screenshots, so we can say that the pikeman comes with feudalism

no where has the samurai been mentioned as "normal" unit only as the japanese CSU...in the old screenshots there was a knight with chivalry, and in the most recent screenshot we have what appears to be a samurai

we know the knight is in the game, the Indian and Chinese CSUs both replace the knight, and using old screenshots, and the placement of the knight in civ2, and the technology most linked to the knight, it seems highly likely that the knight will come with chivalry

we now know that the War Elephant is in the game as the Indian CSU, but it replaces the Knight, Polytheism is at least three techs before Chivalry (cerimonial burial --> mysticism --> polytheism), so the Indians would have an unbalanced advantage...they get War Elephants way before any other civ gets knights, and it doesn't require any resources to build...that is too much, so while it might be possible it would seem strange

though i cannot explain why Elephants and Polytheism have been linked at all...the belief in numerous god have nothing to do with elephants, but elephants do seem to make people happy so i see why they are considered a luxery item in civ3

so i agree with you saying the unit under military tradition is a gunpowder mounted unit, but i still think that chivalry is where knights are at and that is what the Indian War Elephant replaces...i will edit my list

jsw363

that looks like a eagle warrior to me, but we will just have to wait and see

Kestrel and gerkenbr

interesting stuff on your nation's aircraft carriers