If Civ III doesnt sell

[DarkCloud]

As much as I hate saying this on Apoly's IIIrd Birthday; If Civ III doesn't sell, then we should probably cover Sim Golf... I for one won't play it, but, just having the game supported on the site, Apolyton will have a huge growth rate because the game is almost certainly going to sell well...

Any other thoughts?

-PS if Civ III is good then let's NOT host Sid Golf

[loinburger]

I'm against the idea. Keep Apolyton to Civ(like) games, I say. (After all, Apolyton would also experience growth if there were a Quake forum... )

[Provost Harrison]

I am sure civ3 will sell, but even if it doesn't, there are still going to be a hardcore of fans who will be interested in a website for the game. And after all, this is a civ site, and that is the way it should stay, although on the other hand, there is nothing wrong with interest in some of Sid's other projects as a sideline.

In the end, I am totally indifferent,

[Ecthy]

well, anyone here not going to buy it? I definitely am, even though there already are many things about it I don't like...

[Provost Harrison]

Well the thing is though Andy, there are many things we do not know about the game yet. Nor is it even in the beta stage yet, it is very much still under development. Only time will tell, but I expect even the most ardent critics such as Yin will end up buying it. Know thine enemy, so to speak.

[Ecthy]

bah... even if it's sh!t, it's a civ game... and it's done by Sid... look , CTP was advertised better than it actually turned out to be (sucked and still does).

anyway, it would be way better with SE, PW, and UW. (social engineering, public works, unit workshop), but noone will listen to this. apart from that, from what we've seen so far, it's almost impossible to make it a bad game in the end, since most of the screenshots or described game features are quite satisfying. and they're not working at their first game either, they know how to do it. Cecilia Barajas (CTP) thought Civ2 was only an update, she wanted to create a completely new CIV game - and failed (IMO, there are realy people who play CTP). well, telling from graphics and many features, CIV3 seems t obe a major update on CIV2, something like CIV 2.75. they keep what made civ2 successful, dump what made SMAC successful... well I'm not completly illusionized (does this word exist in english), but I'm pretty sure it will be cool... anyway, what's the point in asking "what if civ3 doesn't sell?"

[connorkimbro]

anyway, it would be way better with SE, PW, and UW. (social engineering, public works, unit workshop),

if they were implemented better than they were in their respective games. public works from CTP just plain was terrible, and i don't think it COULD be implemented well at all, it's just a bad idea. . the other two ideas have merit, but SMAC was a decent game at best, and anyway, i don't think they'd even fit as well into civ as they did in smac. there has been endless debate on this, of course, but this is my opinion. .

[ACOLKitty]

Public Works was fixed in CtP2 to where I think it was really well done. The settler/terreformed concept is idiotic. Unfortunatly CtP had no AI and even the Mod packs have yet to make the game capable of beating ANYONE.

Civ3 will sell. There is a sucker born every minute.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
(sucked and still does)

Andy, when was the last time you played CtP? Did you *ever* play it with the MedMod or Cradle?

Originally posted by ACOLKitty
Unfortunatly CtP had no AI and even the Mod packs have yet to make the game capable of beating ANYONE.

It's true that veteran players like you and me can still beat the AI even with Cradle (the toughest mod to play) installed, but the same goes for any other Civ game. Less experienced players though apparently loose to the AI every now and then, with both MedMod and Cradle, so you're exaggerating things here.

Anyway, I don't think SimGolf should be covered, Apolyton doesn't cover Antietam(sp?) or Gettysburg either, does it? Even if Civ3 is a failure, there will still be CtP2, SMAC(2?), Civ2, Alt Civs and others. It's a Civ site so it should IMHO cover Civ(-like) games - though news items on BHG or Sid's other projects are fine with me.

[DarkCloud]

Then perhaps Apolyton, if civ III is a bad game or sells badly, should shift its focus to another TBS hit game... or Empire Earth??? Or Europa Universalis or Risk 2, etc... just to survive, because I feel that Civ III will give the franchise 2 more years on the net at most... 1 year of good activity if it is good. If it's bad 3 months of good activity.

[Ming]

There will be no need to "shift focus"...

Civ III will be fine. It won't be perfect, but it will be good enough for us to play. And If not, let the whining begin

[Caesar the Great]

I for one and going to buy it on the first day...... if not preordered (i've had some bad experiences with that though) If its no good then I'll play it for a few others then give.... hell I even gave CTP a chance lol

[tniem]

Originally posted by Locutus
Anyway, I don't think SimGolf should be covered, Apolyton doesn't cover Antietam(sp?) or Gettysburg either, does it?

As Mark pointed out to me one time about the same question, that Apolyton was not around when Gettysburg was announced, released. He never answered whether it would have been covered had ACS been around but my guess is probably. After all dinosaurs was covered and the only reason Sim Golf wasn't was a huge backlash thread against coverage as tons of angry civers were afraid of a Civ III delay.

[DarkCloud]

Dinosaurs was a civ-style game.

SidGolf is nothing at all like civ- this is the Apolyton Civilization Site and is dedicated to talking about empire building games, IE Earth:2025, Europa Universalis, etc.

[dainbramaged13]

What about empire earth.... it looks like a god game to me, anyone heard anything specific about it?

[tniem]

Originally posted by DarkCloud
Dinosaurs was a civ-style game.

Says who?

As I read the diaries they were still deciding how they were going to make the game. They had not even decided between TB and RT. But in the end how would have you made a TBS-civesque game with dinos?

What are you going to have dino villages? Dino hatcheries? Are you going to research flying dinos? Or sharper teeth?

The only type of game that would have worked in my mind is either some type of RTS game where your dinos were a lot like the Zergs in StarCraft (which is why many in the Dino threads were calling it DinoCraft) or a simulation game like SimAnts. Sid probably would have done the second judging by his history and the game he ended up doing.

SidGolf is nothing at all like civ

True, but that does not change the fact that not only was Sim Golf coverage considered, Markos went as far as to say the only reason a page wasn't launched was their was a debate over what colors to use on the site. That was before a general uprising happened and the idea to cover it was canned except in the Miscellaneous Section.

this is the Apolyton Civilization Site and is dedicated to talking about empire building games, IE Earth:2025, Europa Universalis, etc.

Agreed and I do believe there should be a nitch for this and that Apolyton does a great job filling this spot. But where do you stop with civ games? Does Empire Earth count? Should we cover MoO3? Should we cover all Sid games?

P.S. You were the one to first suggest in this thread hosting SimGolf

[phoenixcager]

Originally posted by ACOLKitty
Public Works was fixed in CtP2 to where I think it was really well done. The settler/terreformed concept is idiotic. Unfortunatly CtP had no AI and even the Mod packs have yet to make the game capable of beating ANYONE.
.

Have you even tried the latest CtP2 mods?

[MORON]

If yin is right ....civ3 is doomed

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Ming
And If not, let the whining begin

Now there's something I never thought I'd see. Even with the attached.

One thing to remember about civ3 is that its really a package deal. A lot of features have to mesh together well for it to become a "great" game, and conversely a lot of features added in, even as optional, could upset the whole shopping cart so to speak.
I think we really just have to wait and see...
Fear the worst but hope for the best

[korn469]

well it all depends on what you mean by "if it doesn't sell"

first i know i will buy a copy so it will at least sell one copy...but that isn't what you really mean

to my knowledge SMAC sold about 250k copies, CtP sold about 250k copies, CtP2 sold about 50k copies, and Civ2 sold more than a million i think...if somebody could present the exact figures then maybe that could clear things up some

so i think it'd be safe to say that civ3 will sell between 200k-600k copies more than enough for an expansion and probably more than enough for a sequal...it is also possible that civ3 could flop and only sell about 100k copies, or that it could be a hit and sell over a million...

either way apolyton has 11,000 logins and many of those haven't ever been used, many are currently inactive, and at least some are double logins...so even if civ3 flops and only sells 100k copies then apolyton could still have the possibility of growing by about nines times...so i think apolyton is safe

[ACOLKitty]

Originally posted by phoenixcager

Have you even tried the latest CtP2 mods?

Not in the last 3 months. Try the Mod challenge.

Start a game with the hardest settings. Build one city and set it to produce a defensive unit. Cycle turns forever, never upgrade, never move, just cycle turns. If the AI sends diplomatic wishes declarewar. You will never be eliminated.

The only way to lose is to be wiped out by barbarians in the very beginning.

[Cube]

I for one am a hardcore fan of call to power. I thought the original was ok, and modified it was great. I thought Ctp2 was also good except for the weak AI, but medmod and cradle fixed that. CTP AND CTP 2 are much more customizable than any other civ game and will more than likely be more customizable than civ III. I agree that settlers is a horrible way of improving great for cheating. With settlers you can build 10-20 farms in a couple of turns but with PW you can't. Of course I never played CIV I or CIV II I guess I'm got into the genre late. My first civ game was SMAC. Well I'm not going to buy CIV III right away, because it doesn't have future gameplay. <B> I'm going to buy Empire Earth(EE) and play it until I get bored, then I will probably buy civ III. </B> I would like to see EE covered by Apolyton. I think Civ III will sell but not much.

[DarkCloud]

Originally posted by tniem



As I read the diaries they were still deciding how they were going to make the game. They had not even decided between TB and RT. But in the end how would have you made a TBS-civesque game with dinos?

Didn't know that, only read some diaries

Agreed and I do believe there should be a nitch for this and that Apolyton does a great job filling this spot. But where do you stop with civ games? Does Empire Earth count? Should we cover MoO3? Should we cover all Sid games?

P.S. You were the one to first suggest in this thread hosting SimGolf

PSreply: I know that was for the survival of the site I voted against it in the original poll

I think we should cover MoO3 and maybe Empire Earth, though it is a RTS, so coverage would be questionable...

[Cube]

delete