the scary thought..... City Managment info????

MarkG · August 9, 2001, 20:32

it seems like we have heard plenty of stuff on the various parts of the game(how culture works, special abilities, etc)

but what about the WAY the game is played?
what kind of multiple-cities managment features are there?
(i hope this part has improvements over ctp2's features not improvements over civ2's

)

more exactly: do we have mayors/city managers? can you give multiple build orders to cities? can you save city queues(i think they exist, right?) and apply them to another city?

TechWins · August 9, 2001, 21:14

Quote:

more exactly: do we have mayors/city managers? can you give multiple build orders to cities? can you save city queues(i think they exist, right?) and apply them to another city?

I asked these same questions in a seperate thread a couple of days ago and Dan replied. He said that afahk there isn't a ciy manager but there is going to be a building que. I hope that helps you.

Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS · August 9, 2001, 21:21

That's a great ask the team question.

Jeff

MarkG · August 9, 2001, 21:21

Quote:

Originally posted by TechWins
I asked these same questions in a seperate thread a couple of days ago and Dan replied. He said that afahk there isn't a ciy manager but there is going to be a building que. I hope that helps you.

hmmm i cant seem to find the quote. can you help?

Dan Magaha FIRAXIS · August 9, 2001, 21:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS
That's a great ask the team question.

Jeff

Troll.

Dan

MarkG · August 9, 2001, 21:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS
That's a great ask the team question.

you're absolutely sure you cant asnwer that now?

TechWins · August 9, 2001, 21:31

Quote:

hmmm i cant seem to find the quote. can you help?

I'm in a big Civ3 info buzz right now and I'm trying to find out as much as I can before I have to go in about 20 minutes. So what I'll do for you is I'll find it sometime tonight.

Quote:

That's a great ask the team question.

You're right it is a great ask the team question but it's an even better answer the question in an Apolyton post question. Don't you think?

Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS · August 9, 2001, 22:20

Very sure, because there is something, and it would be a great ask the team question.

Jeff

Inverse Icarus · August 9, 2001, 22:34

hey, you firaxxians are all over this thread, so i'll thorw my 2 cents in.

can you say SOMETHING about the AI? or show a movie of you bartering with the AI, like a full fledged deal here. i want to see the barter table thing in action. thanks in advance.

next, CAN I PLEASE HAVE A BETA? i'll report every little bug and i will play in every concieveable manner as to test every function every possible way. i'll write long reviews of what i did to make bugs happen. i'll do your laundry. i'll watch your children. i'll wear a mask and pretend to be you and goto events that you dont want to go to. i will sacrfice my first born. the beta could be the same civ on the same map every tme and i would play it for WEEKS. thank you jeff or dan or ::gapes in awe:: sid.

TechWins · August 10, 2001, 05:35

Uber your sick!

Quote:

So what I'll do for you is I'll find it sometime tonight.

Well, I looked for it but I didn't find what I wanted to see. I saw that it wasn't Dan (I was positive it was Dan, though, but I guess not) and it was Lockstep who stated those things. Sorry about that.

Quote:

Very sure, because there is something, and it would be a great ask the team question.

Ok, well I'm going to do an ask the team question then. I asked it now you better answer it unlike all my other questions I've asked.

Grim Legacy · August 10, 2001, 05:44

Perhaps this is a controversial opinion, but I'd rather *not* have city majors/governors etc.

The reason is that:

1) these bots are always flawed, at least always have been in similar games.

2) they make you loose 'feeling' with your individual cities, detrimenting one of Civ's traditional strongpoints.

3) they are an excuse to 'overexpand + play sloppy', instead of forcing the player to be really in control (or else his cities will wither and his civ will die).

But a building qeue is a must!

TechWins · August 10, 2001, 05:57

Quote:

Perhaps this is a controversial opinion, but I'd rather *not* have city majors/governors etc.

Why is that? It's an optional to use them. It's like not wanting civ-specific units, it's always an option. You're not being forced to use them.

The only reason why I would like to have city govs. is because I play MP with my brother and his wife once in awhile. She doesn't really know the game very well so having a city gov. would really help her out. That way I don't have to hear questions all the time. My personal preference to control my cities and micromanagement myself.

Grim Legacy · August 10, 2001, 06:49

Quote:

Originally posted by TechWins

Why is that? It's an optional to use them. It's like not wanting civ-specific units, it's always an option. You're not being forced to use them.

Because of the reasons I stated. It will not just be "vanilla + governors", it will be a change to the game. The option alone will open the door to letting too much micromanagement in -for example an extreme number of buildings to build, or too much irrigation improvements to take care of (like in AC, where you could transform the land, rendering tile improvement a never-ending process).

Also, it's nice to have a common backdrop, instead of creating separate groups of players who each have their own civ settings that *determine* the way they play/experience the game...it's a division of the ranks somehow.

But I do admit that the option to turn them off is a blessing.

Martinus · August 10, 2001, 07:31

It seems the governors from SMAC may be in. Taken from General FAQ:

"In 1999, Firaxis Games released Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, a turn-based science fiction strategy game. Alpha Centauri was extremely successful and had many game play innovations that advanced the turn-based genre. Firaxis Games will utilize many of the cool innovations made in Alpha Centauri in CivIII. In Civilization III you'll find borders (but even more realistic than in SMAC), unique benefits depending on the Civilization you choose, enhanced and more realistic diplomacy AI, build- queues and more ways to delegate commands for those who want to minimize micromanagement at later stages in the game. These are just some of the innovations that will be found in Civilization III and that made Alpha Centauri the highest rated PC game ever! "

Here's the link: http://www.civ3.com/faq2.cfm

Urban Ranger · August 10, 2001, 11:32

These are not bots since bots are self-contained agents. They are... dummies

Grim Legacy · August 11, 2001, 04:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
These are not bots since bots are self-contained agents. They are... dummies

LOL Define dummies!

Laszlo · August 11, 2001, 05:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Grim Legacy
Perhaps this is a controversial opinion, but I'd rather *not* have city majors/governors etc.

Grim Legacy, I disagree with your suggestion for several reasons. In this post I'll explain the selfish reason. You can use the governors in Civ2 by not using them!

I'd never let the idiots actually decide what to build, but when I've been working on a wonder for a while and some other Civ beats me to the punch I go to that city and try to change it to another wonder. But I am lazy, and didn't look to see if I had another to switch to after I pressed the Change button. But this time there was no other option but to buy the biggest city improvement and swallow the loss (also, other times the alternative wonder was much smaller). So I panicked.

I pressed the Help button, but of course, that was no help, it wouldn't let me out. Then I clicked the Auto button, then Cancel, and...voila! You don't have to make a choice! You can continue "building" the 'stolen' wonder until an alternative is found. I felt very smug.

Some may consider this a cheat, but for me it has been a real cost saver for me during pre-Capitalization times.

Grim Legacy · August 11, 2001, 07:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Laszlo

Grim Legacy, I disagree with your suggestion for several reasons. In this post I'll explain the selfish reason. You can use the governors in Civ2 by not using them!

Some may consider this a cheat, but for me it has been a real cost saver for me during pre-Capitalization times.

LOL.

Yes it is a cheat and I don't think the designers meant the feature to be used like that. You could also just not click the "change" button, though...and just continue denying the wonder is already built.

Do you have other reasons to include governors?

MarkG · August 11, 2001, 07:55

btw, having governons/mayors is not a difficult-to-add feature, since you do have the same code in the game for the AI....

so they are probably in....

Laszlo · August 11, 2001, 08:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Grim Legacy
Do you have other reasons to include governors?

Yes, Grim Legacy, I do. Though some would call them clorified queue lists, if you could make customizable governors, that would be something useful. You would set up your priorities beforehand, and they would follow your instructions technologies permitting.

Though even this would not be perfection. To make it a truly great advance, you should be able to design your governors as little intelligent machines, that respond to events as they happen, and to digest pertinent information from their surroundings. On to the examples!

Once I tried putting on a governor in a Civ2 game, as my empire had grown beyond the bounds of my nearly infinite patience to micro-manage. As soon as I did so I switched it right back. Why?...because the @%*$ing idiot was building SDI defense before the Manhattan Project was even started! They also have this irrational fascination with ports! I think once in my entire Civ-playing existance have I ever felt it practical to build a port facility, and they find grounds to construct one in a city with no ships based on a city-sized lake!

You also would not build harbors or offshore platforms if there were few ocean squares or a supermarket if there were no land tiles because the expense of upkeep would outweigh the benefit. And you would rush-buy a newly founded city's first defensive unit when a barbarian party lands a few spaces away (or maybe sell off it's largest city improvement if they're are too close for hope).

Obviously you have to sort of program the AI into it, or else have it so intelligent that it can teach itself your style through observation. But if you could get it to work, it would be really big. I've never played a MP game of Civilization, but I bet they don't like playing on large maps or going for spaceships. This kind of stuff would speed the multi-player sector up considerably in a way people would be satisfied with.

Grim Legacy · August 11, 2001, 09:51

Ah, but in the case of glorified build queues, I'm in complete agreement with you.

The way you describe it is just what I would like to see. A pre-cooked list of buildings and perhaps some scripting to make simple decisions about ports etc, like you mentioned.

Solver · August 11, 2001, 09:54

Those Firaxians are so lazy.

Laszlo · August 11, 2001, 10:29

heh heh...
Not as lazy as we're gonna be once they put it in there!