AI sucks!? You guys must be GOOD!

Like2frolick · January 4, 2001, 04:52

Hey there! I'm the Uber-Newbie....and I'm here to talk about my most recent(and HARDEST) game ever.

First off....lemme describe my style. I am Perfectionist. I can't enjoy ICS...it's just DULL. I build my Tech to horrific levels, once I have the advantage I switch to a warlike gov, and wipe out the opposition, or knock them down to a point where they no longer pose a threat to me.

This time, I decided to play around. It was a huge world, 7 tribes, bloodlust, Varied Land. Basically there were about 15 little islands and 10 continents. I spent the first part of the game normally. I built up a substantial Tech lead, despite challanges from the Carthaginians from the North and the Persians from the South.

Then...Having set myself up, I decided to go on an orgy of bloodlust, albeit a tad early and switched to fundamentalism. I wiped out the Persians(cost me a Bloody lot of units, too) and conquered 3 continents(bringing my continent total to five) I was the largest, toughest civ.

I now have four AI civs....one is a civ in hiding, One is the Aztech's in the far north, One is the Romans(Not QUITE as big as me...but surprisingly close) the Carthaginians(2 continents, four islands....they've been harassing me since 1000BC with Naval raids..I took the initial continent away, but they settled further North, and Prospered)

So..here's what happened. Our Tech was Early Modern(Tanks, Planes, Bombers, ALL ships....Cruise Missiles, but no Stealth, and no Howies...since I ~hate~ Howies.

I went to war. First, I switched to Fundie, and invaded the Cartha-continent. I used a Battleship, and a transport full of troops to sieze my toehold city from the Cartha's. The Cartha's sued for peace, and, smugly, I commenced working on building up for another attack, while shifting those forces East to drive the Romans off an Island.

I Built up defenses, honest! My Toeholds I take ~seriously~ I had 3 Veteren Riflemen fortified behind city walls in that city..and was busily getting ready to Jump the romans...

When 10 tanks, 15 Marines, and a half dozen Riflemen all marched on the Cartha-toe-Hold and attacked en-masse.

I was....surprised. I didn't know the AI DID this...But it had. it had been doing sneaky stuff like this since the game started, though I'd never seen such signigicant troop movement. Without a toe-Hold, I'd have to break back in, reinforce again, and incade the Cartha-continent...and I was busily going to war with the Romans, and robbing them blind. I tried the same thing...and took three Roman cities before my offense was bogged down, and I accepted a Cease Fire.

So..I was busily dueling with the Cartha's on the Ocean(it's still Just an AI, and didn't have a chance)My battleships busily pounding Oceanside cities into ruins.

Which is why the Transport got through.

Ya see....my staging point was a nearby Island which I'd ripped from the Cartha's in an earlier war after much bloody fighting. That was where the troops were sposed to gather, and attack.

Of course....being at war, they weren't gathered...they were attacking, and that's when I discovered a flaw in my play style.

I under-defend conquered cities on continents I own. I had 1 rifleman in each. And the Cartha's invaded with 8 Tanks and Vasrious other troops. They wiped me off that Island in one turn.

This was the biggest shock I've ~ever~ had in a game...I mean, period. Ever. That's when the Romans went back to war, and tried to re-capture the cities I'd taken..it didn't work, I smashed the army flat, but I couldn't advance on them, because The Romans DIDn't Underdefend...Every city had Lots and Lots and LOTS of Units...and they were a Democracy. And when they switched to attack me, they still had enough Money that it was too expensive...and my spies died in Job lots trying to take Romes walls down.

Figuring the Cartha's wouldn't get into any more trouble(and not willing to keep fighting two front war) I concentrated on containing the Romans. It worked, too. I switched to Democracy and raced along the Research paths for a while...and prepared my army.

I switched back to fundy, and attacked Rome. Five Bombers killed most of the Units inside, and My main force of tanks took one city en passe.

That's when the UN made me stop. I'd forgotten that the Romans had the UN! So I busily made to invade again, rebuilt my wounded army...invaded...

The western Half of my Empire Vanished in Thermonuclear flame.

Ya see...the Cartha's had built the Manhattan Project...and SDIs before I had. I ~had~ Bombs now...but they had em ~first~ and they used them to hammer my juicy cities.

Then the Romans nailed my Invasion forces, and took 2of the cities which I'd used as toeholds back.

IU, of course, retaliated. I Built as much SDI as I could afford(took 5-6 turns, but I built em in ALL my Major cities...and then proceeded to have an extended Nuclear war with BOTH sides.

Finally, I managed to get a dozen tanks in, hammer Rome and the city with the UN with Nukes...and take em over. After that, I simply used Spies to capture most of the Roman cities, and turned back to my Western half.

Which was ruined. I'd sent in a massive invasion force to try to quell the Cartha's when they threw nukes. They nuked my fleet....killed ~16 units~ Plus the transports!

I've since grovelled for a cease fire..I'm getting ready for one more push...a massive Nuclear Strike, Followed By Bombers and Tanks.

Then, all I have to do is finish the Aztechs, and I win.

Now....You Guys think the AI is BAD!? The HELL!?

Okay...so they fall for traps and are easily led. Geez...if the AI was any smarted I would LOSE...

And this is on Prince level.

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I dunno. I think nukes are cool..If you're the only one who has em.

Laertes · January 4, 2001, 07:26

It sounds like you had a tough time. My thought would be that if you work so hard to get the tech advantage, you should use it. Ignoring Howies is going to make it very hard.

Also, don't accept the peace when offered it - it allows them to regroup. If you have a lot of units in a city, rush build city walls and SAM.

I struggled to win on Prince, so I read the forums here and moved up to Deity. I don't win every time, but I win my fair share!

kcbob · January 4, 2001, 08:53

I'm probably in the same boat as Fergus. I played a few games at each level as I continued to move up to Deity. Once you get used to the level, style, and techniques, it's not too bad. As for Prince level, after a few more games at that level, you'll be stomping the AI each game.

As for your game and style, Fergus is right again about howitzers. They are incredibly powerful! An army of vet howitzers on a railroaded continent can sweep the AI away in one turn. Your current game? Once the AI starts to use nukes, it's a huge uphill battle. Good luck.

As for the question of underdefending... **** happens.

One suggestion. You didn't say anything about bribing cities. After the AI retakes a city, you can buy it back for a very reasonable price. Don't forget to have a few spys available.

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Frodo lives!

Bird · January 4, 2001, 11:47

I'm impressed that the ai used nukes against units. Did it attack the units in the field, or were they just collateral damage from a nuked city?

Ming · January 4, 2001, 12:50

I've never seen the AI nuke a unit in the field.
I didn't think it was possible.

Blaupanzer · January 4, 2001, 17:53

Ming, I have seen the AI nuke ships, but never land units not in cities. Don't like nuke wars, but sometimes inevitable.

Like2frolick · January 4, 2001, 18:10

They Nuked Me.

Blew up My Transports.

So...they ~do~ do it.

And, Like I said, I can get a horrific tech lead, and simply squish the opposition, that's no fun though. it's only fun if there's a challange!

jcarkey · January 4, 2001, 18:11

Well, it's not as easy in a mulit-front war, but it still isn't that hard.

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Carolus Rex · January 4, 2001, 19:44

What really struck me when I read your post was that the AI actually attacked with more than 3 or 4 units (ignoring the 20+ cruise missiles or destroyers it's so keen on

)!

Carolus

Sieve Too · January 5, 2001, 01:24

I've also never seen the AI nuke anything but a city. In fact, a good strategy after taking AI cities when the AI has nukes but NOT Combined Arms (Paratroopers and Helos) is to not defend newly captured cities AT ALL. Move all units out of the city during that crucial one turn gap while you rush buy SDI. Use AI built forts and ZOC to keep the AI away from the city. Sit on adjacent city squares if necessary. No matter how many units you stack in a fort, the AI never attacks the stack with a nuke. But leave even just one unit in the city and *BOOM*: nuked city.

My Wife Hates CIV · January 5, 2001, 10:57

I have also seen the AI nuke ships. Not land units yet.

I was using my 8 aegis cruisers covered by bombers around a carrier. The AI attacked one ship with some 40 stealth fighters opening up a hole... it than nuked the center carrier. Lost 12 cruisers, two carriers, some 40 fighters and 20 bombers.

Ming · January 5, 2001, 11:27

Man... the AI must love me...
I've never seen it nuke a fleet or any unit for that matter??? I've played many games where the AI has gotten nukes, and not once have they used them on anything but a city... have you guys adjusted your rules files????

War4ever · January 5, 2001, 14:55

I don't think i have ever seen the ai nuke my ships either

but this doesnt' surprise me either.
Yes naval combat can be treacherous especially with ai cheating with its cruise missles. Like it really has 40 of them waiting for your poor ageis's

Oh well, it needs to cheat, it cannot effectively wage war for an extended period of time

Laertes · January 6, 2001, 01:44

I have had nuked fleets, and I would not know where to start with editing rules files.

A lovely fleet it was too, carriers, bombers, poor old AEGIS cruisers bravely "doubling defence against missile attacks,...sob...

Kristjan · January 7, 2001, 12:02

Sorry, but AI still sucks. I do not know if I am good or not, but AI DOES suck. There are really MANY strategies good enaugh to destroy it in EVERY possible map that random generator is able to great.

Speaking of you game, IMHO you did two great mistakes.

First, you engaged yourself in war in two fronts without sufficient advantage. In result you had to share your resources and were forced into defence in both fronts. You should have attacked one of them, finshed it off (I mean really FINISHED it OFF) and then take the other. If you were the biggest in the world, you were capable of holding others back with diplomatic measures easily (with spotless reputation of course). Speaking about defences, I never launch an attack if I am not sure that I did not need much defences after the first wave of attack (that means, the first wave practically destroys the military power and infrastructure of the opponent). You have got to mobilize your society first and then go to the war.

Second, you fought a war with a nuclear-armed civ without setting up SDIs first. Do not EVER do that! AI is crazy about nukes, it uses them as much as possible (it is bug, I think, because the damage to the ecology would destroy AI as well). And if you are in a war with AI having nukes, buy SDI in every city you conquer ASAP. You should have negotiated for peace, even given some tribute, to the AI at the same moment when it got nukes, then built SDIs and started again.

Kristjan

Kristjan · January 7, 2001, 12:05

Speaking of Deity of course.

East Street Trader · January 8, 2001, 08:16

IMO the AI is programmed to offer a cease fire after you take one of its cities so that it can make use of the bonus afforded to a sneak attack.

No problem accepting the cease fire if this allows you to bring up reserves. But if your forces are stretched, and it is up to the successful attackers to dig in and hold their gains, refuse the cease fire (blasted senate allowing, of course).

kcbob · January 8, 2001, 09:50

quote:

Originally posted by Kristjan on 01-07-2001 11:02 AMAI is crazy about nukes
Kristjan

There is nothing I hate worse than seeing the AI come at me with nukes!!

Usually, once that happens, I'm doomed. However, in my last game, the English of all people started using them and I was still able to vanquish them.

Cursed English! (Just kidding Scouse Gits!)

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Frodo lives!

Scouse Gits · January 9, 2001, 07:15

Oh KC - you must have heard of 'Perfidious Albion' - we have a millenium long reputation for doing unto others (first)!

I agree with you - I detest nukes and will do everything in my empire's power to prevent the building of the Manhatten Project - what are vet spies for after all?????

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Scouse Git[1]

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kcbob · January 9, 2001, 09:02

quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 01-09-2001 06:15 AM
Oh KC - you must have heard of 'Perfidious Albion' - we have a millenium long reputation for doing unto others (first)!

I agree with you - I detest nukes and will do everything in my empire's power to prevent the building of the Manhatten Project - what are vet spies for after all?????

Doh! I feel like Homer Simpson!

I've used spies to destroy AI spaceships but it never occurred to me to wreck the Manhattan Project with them. As I said... doh!

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Frodo lives!